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More powerful OCF speedlights
  
 
jmcelvoy
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p.1 #1 · More powerful OCF speedlights


I'm starting to use my SB-800 on most all of my senior sessions and I've ran in to a few situations where I can't get enough power out of it without having it 1 foot away from my subject to expose them and a nice sky in the background. I have 3 white lightning x1600's that I will occasionally take on location with me, but I'm looking for something smaller/lighter than the x1600/Vagabond but more power than the SB-800. I seen a video on Kelby Training a while back where I think they photographer used a Quantum QFlash. I've looked for those and I'm pretty confused by all the models there are out there. I'd really like to stay under $1000 if possible, but can go up if I have to. I have a Nikon D800. I'd like 2 heads with seperate power if possible.


Jul 27, 2013 at 02:59 PM
dmward
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p.1 #2 · More powerful OCF speedlights


Here is the link to a nice light that should do what you want; https://www.cheetahstand.com/A-New-Bare-Bulb-Flash-Arrives-p/cl-360combo.htm

I've been doing some testing to verify that the Cells IIc trigger works properly with Canon 5DIII to support H mode FP sync.

The CL-360 is about 300Ws and the 180 is about 150 Ws.




Jul 27, 2013 at 03:21 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #3 · More powerful OCF speedlights


The Paul Buff Einstein's are smaller than your big White Lightnings, but not much lighter, and still have about the same power, so they are not of much help. But the fairly new Mini Vagabond power packs that Buff sells are much lighter than the old Vagabond power packs, and reasonable in price. You might want to consider the Mini Vagabond's with your current White Lightnings to see if it can work for you. It is not going to be as easy to handle as some of the intermediate portable pack units like Quantum, but it is a way to get going for a lot less money since you have your strobes and modifiers all ready. Worth considering in any case. A 5 pound strobe on a good stand with the Mini Vagabond attached to the stand as a counter weight is pretty portable to move around.

Eventually you could consider Einstein's as an upgrade if you want to be able to adjust power remotely, but that may not be something you ever need.

I happen to use the Profoto Acute B 600 pack system for my portable needs, but if the Einstein and the Mini Vagabond had been available when I geared up for portable use, I would have gone down the Buff road rather than Profoto. The current Profoto portable units would be way over your budget, plus you would need to adapt to a different modifier mounting.



Jul 27, 2013 at 11:46 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #4 · More powerful OCF speedlights


jmcelvoy wrote:
...I'd really like to stay under $1000 if possible, but can go up if I have to. I'd like 2 heads with seperate power if possible.


Two Quantums with power packs and triggers are going to be way more than that, unless you buy used. The upside is that Quantums are iTTL capable (natively with the Trios and via adapters with the others) if you prefer to shoot that way.

If manual flash power works for you then there are other options.

Two Cheetah Light CL-180s with two L4500 lithium battery packs, two CL-Rx receivers, and one CL-Tx transmitter will be about $1370 not including shipping, handling, and taxes.

And of course you can stick with your White Lightnings, and get lithium packs for them.

jmcelvoy wrote:
I'm starting to use my SB-800 on most all of my senior sessions and I've ran in to a few situations where I can't get enough power out of it without having it 1 foot away from my subject to expose them and a nice sky in the background.


What shutter speed are you using?



Jul 28, 2013 at 01:54 AM
jmcelvoy
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p.1 #5 · More powerful OCF speedlights


Thanks for the input so far. I try to stick around 1/200th, but the White Lightning's say they'll sync up to 1/4000th with my RadioPopper PX's...I just haven't tried that out yet. I have 2 sets of PX's and 3 sets of JrX's for my remote triggering. I need to make sure whatever I get will work with my triggers.
I'm not above buying used gear. If I wanted to start looking for used Quantum stuff, what models should I look for? I'm assuming I have to buy the light and battery pack separate?
Also interested in the Cheetah lights. If I remember right, the SB-800 was equivalent to 80w/s right? So the CL-180 would be nearly double that.



Jul 28, 2013 at 04:23 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #6 · More powerful OCF speedlights


jmcelvoy wrote:
...If I remember right, the SB-800 was equivalent to 80w/s right?


I believe it's more like 40 or 50 watt-seconds.



Jul 28, 2013 at 04:30 AM
John Skinner
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p.1 #7 · More powerful OCF speedlights


I had that issue many times prior to going to Quantums.

The Qflash Model T5D-R with an adapter for the iTTL and the FreeXwire system pretty well solved any issues I had. That being said, it's a little more pricey than an SB-800. Funny thing is, after having that cell replaced about a year ago. I can't say that system has seen the light of day more than once. Too bad.

Today I would haul a light stand, an PCB 640 and the Mini Vagabond, the Cybersync and just meter my way through it.



Jul 28, 2013 at 07:16 PM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #8 · More powerful OCF speedlights


Get a used Elinchrom Quadra with A or S head. That will be plenty of power for what you want to do and very portable.


Jul 29, 2013 at 04:24 AM
MikeW
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p.1 #9 · More powerful OCF speedlights


I just received my Einstein & vagabond mini setup. Chargin the battery right now. So very nice

I have pocketwizards so I got the pocketwizard adaptor so I can use it alongside my speedlights.

Hopefully it will make me use off camera flash when required instead of being too lazy.



Jul 29, 2013 at 11:23 PM
 

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EB-1
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p.1 #10 · More powerful OCF speedlights


BrianO wrote:
I believe it's more like 40 or 50 watt-seconds.


75WS

EBH



Jul 29, 2013 at 11:38 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #11 · More powerful OCF speedlights


EB-1 wrote:
75WS


Well, it looks like you're correct.

The capacitor on a Canon 580EX is a 1400uF unit, which calculates to 76Ws according to an Internet guru, so the Nikons could logically be assumed to be similar.



Jul 30, 2013 at 04:06 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #12 · More powerful OCF speedlights


BrianO wrote:
Well, it looks like you're correct.

The capacitor on a Canon 580EX is a 1400uF unit, which calculates to 76Ws according to an Internet guru, so the Nikons could logically be assumed to be similar.


Well I'm not an internet guru, but I've been calculating flash power since the 70s. The stored energy is about 76WS and the discharged energy is about 74WS with typical residual voltage, so I decided split the difference for a nice round number. Of course the power losses and tolerance of the flash cap affect the actual output.

EBH



Jul 30, 2013 at 05:21 AM
ukphotographer
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p.1 #13 · More powerful OCF speedlights


jmcelvoy wrote:
I'd really like to stay under $1000 if possible, but can go up if I have to. I have a Nikon D800. I'd like 2 heads with seperate power if possible.


Under $1000 won't do it. At that price you won't get what you need.

With your existing SB800's and RP's I'd look at a 400Ws Quantum X5d-R and Qpaq setup with an additional Qnexus module to start with. After that you add whatever you would find most useful.

The Qnexus module allows the remote X5d-R to operate within the Nikon iTTL (optical) control system, so it can also be used in addition to your Radio Poppers and their generated optical control. if you decide to use radio instead - the module swaps with a radio module.

Not too long ago a full Quantum X5d-R setup with radio controls went for less than $800 on auction, and thats the way I would recommend buying.

I've been shooting with Quantum equipment for about the last five years in all the same modes as I would use Speedlights, this makes for a very versatile system. All these same modes you don't get with the Quantum copies or clones, but because they are less versatile they are cheaper.



Jul 30, 2013 at 09:11 AM
jefferies1
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p.1 #14 · More powerful OCF speedlights


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1228941
Same kind of question in the wedding area. Take a look. Cheetah brand was also mentioned.



Jul 31, 2013 at 03:21 PM
markd61
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p.1 #15 · More powerful OCF speedlights


Nobody has suggested Alien Bees?
The AB 1600 is $359 brand new and goes to 640 WS.
Much lighter than the Einstein and very rugged. Bonus--will take all your WL mods.
I have Quantums and they are OK but not nearly as powerful as even AB 400s.
I have an Einstein and while it is excellent it is not nearly as useful as the Bees in the field. I also worry about banging it around in transport. It is also heavier than the Bee.
If you bust it $50 gets it fixed fast.

Location photography is not about +/- 1/10 stop exposure but more like +/- 1/2 to 1 stop accuracy.
Bees are well within that for field work. In truth they are the super underrated as people focus on specs that are hyped for perfection in studio yet actually have small impact. Bees get the job done.



Aug 02, 2013 at 04:50 PM
ukphotographer
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p.1 #16 · More powerful OCF speedlights


markd61 wrote:
I have Quantums and they are OK but not nearly as powerful as even AB 400s.



AB400s are only 200Ws so it depends on what Quantum you get. The 400Ws versions are the best and integrate into the eTTL or iTTL Canon or Nikon systems.



Aug 05, 2013 at 06:49 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #17 · More powerful OCF speedlights


ukphotographer wrote:
AB400s are only 200Ws...


160 Ws, actually, so the QFT5d-R is only 10 Ws less and the QFX5d-R is 40 - 240 Ws more.
(I just wish the Quantums weren't so darned expensive!)



Aug 05, 2013 at 07:32 PM





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