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Archive 2013 · Moab entrada rag bright 300
  
 
ben egbert
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Moab entrada rag bright 300


I am looking to change papers (see my other post on Red river wrinkling).

I have been searching for a 17x25 matte fine art paper. I would like to avoid rolls because they are really hard to get flat enough to feed into my Epson 3800.

I have tried sample packs of Hamuumule in the past and Some Epson. The Red river looked good and was available in 17x25 and has served me well for the last 4 years, but maybe it is time to move up a bit.

There are natural and bright. Anyone have experience with these? Where do you get profiles? How does it compare to Hammumule?

It looks like it only prints on one side. The coating and extra thickness may help with my wrinkling issue, so long as I keep track of the coated side.

Of course I would start with a sample pack of 8-1/2x11, but most of the stuff in the sample would never be used so maybe if I could decide bright/natural in advance, I can always use 8-1/2 x11.



Jul 17, 2013 at 08:09 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Moab entrada rag bright 300


Hi again,

The spectral response of Moab Entrada Bright is very close to that of the Aurora Bright, so close you could probably use the same paper profiles, although I would advise using the Moab profile. Both papers are way too bright white for me, and Breathing Color Optica One is as bright as I will go.

The Moab Entrada Natural is a little whiter than the Aurora Natural, but not much.

There are profiles at the Moab website: http://moabpaper.com/icc-profiles-downloads/

Brian A



Jul 17, 2013 at 11:51 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Moab entrada rag bright 300


Thanks, I have the profiles installed. Now I am also taking a hard look at Hamumule which I can get from B&H in 24x36 and then cut it. Its available in bright and natural.

Tell me why I should go with natural instead of white? I assume the image will be warmer.

I tried Aurora natural when I started a few years back and did not care for it, but my printing and processing has changed a bunch over that time.

I am about to order some 8-1/2x11 in a Han and Moab for a test. But if I include natural and bright I am looking at over $100 in just test sheets.



Jul 18, 2013 at 01:38 AM
 

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hugowolf
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Moab entrada rag bright 300


The printed image will not be warmer, except for pure whites and very, very light colors. The paper profile maps image colors based on the paper color – the purpose of a profile.

One of the purposes of ‘natural’ papers is to avoid fluorescent brightening agents (FBAs), generally called optical brightening agents (OBAs) by paper companies, because it sounds better.

Fluorescent agents receive light in the non visible ultra violet region, and emit light in the blue end of the spectrum; effectively making the paper seem whiter. They were in the past known as ‘bluing agents’. This is how you can have papers with a ‘brightness’ (reflectance) of more than 100%; they actually emit light in the visible spectrum.

There are several potential problems associated with OBAs. Any UV protective coatings: including UV glass or acrylic, and UV protective sprays, will largely nullify the bluing effect. If the OBAs don’t receive UV light, they can’t emit blue light, and the paper white will not be white. This is the reason why higher end paper/ink profiling devices come in UV and UV cut versions.

The other major problem with them is that they burn out when they are allowed to work. The brighter the light on them, the shorter they live – the paper turns even yellower than it would have done had it originally not contained OBAs. When this happens, all the colors in the printed image change, unlike the profiled colors on less bright paper.

I print professionally. I have no idea where my client’s images will be displayed and how well they will be protected. They could put them in a south facing greenhouse window for all I know. I eschew OBAs for this reason, and for most of my own images prefer a more natural paper color. If you are only printing for yourself, then the decision is more open. I do stock some bright white papers, and some images do work better with them (and some work better with less bright papers too).

My reasons for choosing Canson Rag Photographique 310 over Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308: the Canson paper contains no OBAs (it uses minerals for whitening; probably titanium dioxide. barium sulphate (baryta), and/or a form of silica oddly known as white carbon black), the Hahnemühle uses a small amount of OBAs; probably not enough to worry about. The Canson paper stays flat after printing, the Hahnemühle has a tendency to sometimes slightly recurl (even from sheets). The Hahnemühle doesn’t handle dark greens as well, but I found it somewhat better for black and white; and it is a little less expensive.

The Hahnemühle bright rag has a much greater OBA content, but nowhere near the quantities of Aurora or Moab Entrada bright.

Put a new sheet of Aurora bright against the white area of a print you have had up for a while. If you are not having problems, then you may not have to worry one way or the other.

I would really suggest buying a Hahnemühle matte sample pack and a Moab sample pack if your choice is to lie with these two.

Brian A



Jul 18, 2013 at 04:31 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Moab entrada rag bright 300


Hi Brian, Thanks for your explanation, I am a retired printer engineer, albiet industrial data type printing. But I appreciate the technical explanation.

I am thinking I might just get a pack of Hahnemule natural to try. The samples usually only have 2 sheets of the paper of interest and the rest go unused. I make photo albums and proofs with 8-1/2x11 so lots of sheets are a good thing.

If I don't like the natural, I could then get bright. I suspect it will be a multi part path, it will probably take several sheets just to get the lightness figured out. Even though I calibrate my NEC with Spectraview and at only 80 cd/mm^2, my print almost always look dark.

I print for myself, I don't spray coat or use glass/plexi but rather hang the matted and framed print uncovered (to avoid glare). The display area is not well lit, I need to have some decent lighting installed. Prints usually get rotated after 2-3 years.



Jul 18, 2013 at 01:25 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Moab entrada rag bright 300


Ok, I have the Hahnemuhle photo rag 308 on order in letter size for test. If it works, I will get the 24-36 and a cutter.


Jul 18, 2013 at 07:25 PM





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