Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2013 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling
  
 
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


I print landscapes on 17x25 paper or sometimes roll paper using an Epson 3800 pro. I have been using this system for at least 5 years and never had issues.

Now I am having problems with systematic wrinkles, sort of a corrugated effect. I have played with drying time and ink density, I downloaded the latest Red River profiles.

I am pretty sure this is related to the batch of paper I have. It does not seem to happen with my roll stock and does not appear on 8-1/2x11 stock. I am reluctant to use up lots of roll stock for testing however.

The paper is probably a year old and stored in my basement. It is very dry here in Utah.

The wrinkles are about one inch wide and 2 inches center to center. They go in the long direction and are concentrated in the center and of course in denser print areas.

I would love to try various solutions on small sizes but it only appears on this one paper size.



Jul 15, 2013 at 04:27 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


It sounds like a sizing issue, perhaps with that batch.

You may be able to tell from looking at the dot gain through a loupe. It would be more evident at low printing resolutions and with lighter tones. You could print at say 720 dpi on a smaller sheet cut from the 17 x 25 inch sheet and compare with an 8.5 x 11 inch sheet.

Even without examining the dot gain, it would be interesting to see how the 8.5 x 11 cut from the larger sheet performs againt a precut sheet.

Brian A



Jul 16, 2013 at 01:14 AM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


hugowolf wrote:
It sounds like a sizing issue, perhaps with that batch.

You may be able to tell from looking at the dot gain through a loupe. It would be more evident at low printing resolutions and with lighter tones. You could print at say 720 dpi on a smaller sheet cut from the 17 x 25 inch sheet and compare with an 8.5 x 11 inch sheet.

Even without examining the dot gain, it would be interesting to see how the 8.5 x 11 cut from the larger sheet performs againt a precut sheet.

Brian A


Thanks, a good idea to print a smaller sheet cut from the large. I also sent this to Red River and am awaiting a reply.

I just printed a vertical and a horizontal. The horizontal is hard to notice because of the view angle and light angle. The vertical catches the light and is pretty obvious when the inside lights are off and light is streaming in from the side. I seldom do verticals so I might have just noticed it. But none of my older prints show any sign and many are from the same batch of paper.





Jul 16, 2013 at 01:43 AM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


Here is the Red River reply.


Thank you for your inquiry. I am sorry you've experienced a print issue
with Aurora 17x25. With the paper being a year back, we are probably at
least two batches removed with current stock. I do not have notations of
the problem you mention. Something like that should have been reported if
the issue was widespread. I may be a particular image or color saturation
that allows a coating error to show through.

Can you do an experiment for me? Take a new sheet, and print the same image
on the reverse side. Aurora is coated on both sides, and I'd like to see if
this makes a difference.



Jul 16, 2013 at 02:02 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


So yet another possibility, sizing or coating. Perhaps one side wasn't coated with the inkjet receptive layer as well as the other - acutally more likely than a sizing issue. The internal and external sizing is important, but a failure at that point would be evident in many batches of cut sheets; it is done on such a huge scale on very large rolls that would then be cut down to sheets.

Brian A



Jul 17, 2013 at 01:21 AM
Camperjim
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


I wonder if the ultra low humidity is causing this problem. I would consider getting a humidifier if nothing just for personal comfort. If you are used to the low humidity and don't want to bother, I would put some wet towels in the room with your printer. Pull out a single sheet of paper and let it equilibrate with the moister air and then give it a try.


Jul 17, 2013 at 11:07 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



ben egbert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


Ran out of ink so I can't try anything. I like low humidity personally, can't handle high. But it could be an issue with the paper. I printed a landscape on the back side of a new piece after writing this and before running out of ink. It had just a few wrinkles and because of light direction and the wrinkle direction it cannot be seen.

Verticals are very noticeable because the wrinkles are at right angles to the light.

I wonder if I could resize the paper?

I also started looking for other paper. I wonder why the industry insists on using the obsolete 4x5 aspect ratio? So far Red River is the only place I can find 17x25 sheets which are ideal for 16x24 prints.

I have a roll of 17 wide which I use for 16x30 prints and believe me cutting and flattening a cut sheet is no picnic. The 3800 is a great printer but it would be nice if it could handle roll stock.



Jul 17, 2013 at 02:05 PM
Allynb
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


Have you checked your rollers for damage or dirt/ ink build- up? That could be inhibiting the drive path for the paper.
Allan



Jul 17, 2013 at 04:19 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


Allynb wrote:
Have you checked your rollers for damage or dirt/ ink build- up? That could be inhibiting the drive path for the paper.
Allan


I have not, but it works ok on roll stock. It has all the earmarks of a paper problem.



Jul 17, 2013 at 04:31 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


ben egbert wrote:
I wonder if I could resize the paper?


Sizing, the addition of components to reduce the absorbency of the paper, has to be done while the paper is being made, and would be especially impossible after an inkjet receptive coating has been laid on top.

ben egbert wrote:
I also started looking for other paper. I wonder why the industry insists on using the obsolete 4x5 aspect ratio? So far Red River is the only place I can find 17x25 sheets which are ideal for 16x24 prints.


They are not really into 4:5 ratio, but are more less into US office paper sizes: 17 x 22 inches, and halving thereof. The only odd one out is 13 x 19 inches, which makes for a good 12 x 18 with half inch borders but since it isn’t an exact division of an office paper size, it is the most expensive cut. The standard international A sized papers are a much better fit for a 3:2 image.

ben egbert wrote:
I have a roll of 17 wide which I use for 16x30 prints and believe me cutting and flattening a cut sheet is no picnic. The 3800 is a great printer but it would be nice if it could handle roll stock.


You will not find many cotton papers available in 17 x 25 inch sheets, even fewer in the Aurora price range and probably none with as high an OBA content.

Inkpress has a few available: A double sided 215 gsm Duo Matte 80, but it isn’t cotton. They also have a Picture Rag Cool Tone Paper which is cotton in 300 and 200 gsm. (I have never understood why many lighter weight papers are sometimes more expensive than their full weight equivalents – Canson Rag Photographique 310 and 210 are an example of this.) Legion have Moab Entrada Rag Bright in 300 gsm. Breathing Color has their Optica One, a bright white smooth 300 gsm cotton rag in 17 x 25 inches. BC’s shipping cost to the east coast are crazy high, but could be ok to Utah.

There are also papers available in A2, which will only work if you are cutting your own mats or having mats custom cut. Moab have several A2 papers, as does Museo, and maybe others. A2 is approximately 16.5 × 23.4 inches.

Another alternative is 24 x 36 inch sheets which can be as much as 40% less per unit area than smaller sheets (and are sometimes even less expensive than roll prices). I find 24 x 36 inch sheet easier to cut down than rolls, and the paper tends to start flat and stay flat after printing. You can get two 18 x 24 inch sheets from one 24 x 36 inch sheet with no waste; or two 17 x 24 inch sheets with a small 2 inch waste strip. You can also get two 12 x 36 in sheets from one sheet, if you are into panos.

Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 (probably the most used smooth rag worldwide) is available in Architect D size (24 x 36 inches) at about $200 for 25 sheets with free shipping. So $100 for 25 sheets compared to about $75 (when you include shipping) for the Aurora. But it isn’t bright white and that is a lot of paper to use. But it is a better paper. Personally, I use 24 x 36 inch sheets (along with rolls) of Canson Rag Photographique 310, which is a little more expensive than the Hahnemühle.

And there is always the possibility of Red River replacing the paper you have.

Brian A



Jul 17, 2013 at 10:07 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Red River Aurora white wrinkling


Thanks for the tips, 24x36 flat sheet is a great idea I had not considered and I sometimes do 17x30 for 16x9 aspect ratio (approx). I do cut my own mats. I also discovered Moab Entrata in 17x25, even started a separate post.







Jul 17, 2013 at 10:41 PM





FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password