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Archive 2013 · Adobe and the cloud!
  
 
DanBrown
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Adobe and the cloud!


butchM wrote:
Invalid? they are Adobe's numbers ...


I won't contest your numbers, but you do seem to have some trouble with transitions. This site may help.




Jul 18, 2013 at 05:09 PM
butchM
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Adobe and the cloud!


DanBrown wrote:
I won't contest your numbers, but you do seem to have some trouble with transitions. This site may help.







Jul 18, 2013 at 05:19 PM
Dave_EP
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Adobe and the cloud!


butchM wrote:
Prior to the May 6 announcement, Adobe not only "expected" CS6 users to upgrade to CS7 ... it was "compelled" they do so or would have had to pay full price for CS8 if they failed to adopt CS7. With the introduction of CS6 you could no longer skip a generation.


And here's the thing.... if they had launched CS7 I would have upgraded. They would have had a nice wad of cash from me now, not spread over the future months or years, whereas with the cloud they will get exactly nothing and I will continue to use the tools I already own, not rent.

While I understand that people on forums have subscribed, most of them are people who either did not already own CS6 or who simply couldn't afford it. Those are the target market for Adobe.

However, I do not personally know (as in meet face to face or chat on the phone - rather than a forum) a single person who owned either CS5.5 or CS6 that has, or ever intends to subscribe to CC. This is the huge market Adobe are in danger of losing, possibly forever.

In my mind Adobe got this wrong in two ways. Firstly, there is no exit path allowing for perpetual use. Having already bought a perpetual license for CS6 I can rent the new features but can never have a perpetual license, other than CS6. Pointless if your work is somehow tied to the new features because CS6 won't open the files and/or produce the same results.

Secondly, they want to you subscribe to everything. Hmmm... so...

My web developer friend who only writes HTML, PHP, CSS and a little Javascript says "I need Dreamweaver and a couple of other apps so can't get the single app price, but I don't need After Effects, Premiere Pro, Audition, Prelude, Media Encoder or Encore, or InDesign or any of the other crap I'll never use, so why should I pay for them?".

My video editor friend says "OK I need 3 or 4 or the apps, but wait, I never created PDFs, I never write code for the web so don't need Dreamweaver, Edge Animation, Edge fonts and all the other crap including InDesign etc, so why would I want to pay for them?".

My photographer friend says "wait, I use Photoshop and Dreamweaver and InDesign but never use [ you get the idea ]"......

If Adobe had perhaps continued with their bundles then more people would have been willing to 'rent' at a lower price without Adobe having to give them the entire farm. But no, that's not an option. It's all or nothing unless you are one of the very few who need only one app, which pretty much limits it to photographers & photoshop I guess.









Jul 18, 2013 at 08:32 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Adobe and the cloud!


You know, this whole thing is starting to spread to the mobile space too...now you can pay an additional monthly fee to be able to upgrade your phones regularly, though you don't get to keep the phone even after you've paid enough to cover it. Seems like Adobe's 'gotcha' plan is finding its way to other parts of our pocketbook.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/16/4528404/att-next-phone-upgrade-plans-a-huge-ripoff
http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/18/4535068/verizons-edge-phone-upgrade-plan-same-bad-ripoff-as-att-next

(Ok, I know, it's not Adobe's fault that the wireless industry is going this way, but there is somewhat of a parallel here).



Jul 18, 2013 at 08:48 PM
ebiggs
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Adobe and the cloud!


butchM wrote:
My point exactly ... they will enjoy it today ... but can they maintain supporting the model indefinitely? Just as in maxing out your credit card and only paying the minimum each month for endless periods ... I have a feeling these new customers won't be around for the long haul ... Hence my reference to self-discipline in managing expenditures ... I'm curious to see how many will have the will to be around supporting a CC subscription a decade from now ...


Very good point you have. How long will the attractive $19.99 be after a few years of it? If you miss a payment, are they going to keep your "stuff" for a time so you may decide to pick-up where you left off? What if you lay off for 6 months?



Jul 21, 2013 at 04:41 PM
EB-1
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Adobe and the cloud!


Are the files created locked in some way or keyed to the particular subscription?

EBH



Jul 21, 2013 at 06:42 PM
Dave_EP
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Adobe and the cloud!


EB-1 wrote:
Are the files created locked in some way or keyed to the particular subscription?

EBH



No they aren't, and this is part of a lot of the miss-information going around the web. Lots of programs can open Photoshop files, even layered files. The problem comes when you are applying specific filters that only exist in the latest versions you can no longer buy a perpetual license for. To be able to edit those files again you'l need to re-subscribe.

OTOH, some of the apps, like After Effects, Premiere Pro, InDesign etc do save in formats that are not easily openable by any other app, and new versions can't be (easily) opened in earlier versions (assuming you didn't use any new features here as well). So you are locked out of your edits.

I have no idea what happens to files stored in the Adobe cloud. It's not something I have ever had any interest in doing. I store them on my local computer with backups and archives. Why would I trust my media to Adobe?



Jul 21, 2013 at 08:58 PM
ripkoken
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Adobe and the cloud!


You know if this works well for Adobe, you may be renting all of your SW on your computer in the future, including your OS.


Jul 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM
Luta13
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Adobe and the cloud!


We are already there.

Microsoft Office 365 is a subscription model.




Jul 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM
butchM
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Adobe and the cloud!


Luta13 wrote:
We are already there.

Microsoft Office 365 is a subscription model.



The major difference is MS Office is not a subscription only model. Unlike Creative Cloud, you can still purchase a perpetual license of Office. Even Microsoft is offering their users options to move forward. Granted, they may follow suit in a subscription only model, but for now at least, they are not forcing the model on users.



Jul 22, 2013 at 12:40 PM
 

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ebiggs
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Adobe and the cloud!


I still don't really understand why Adobe did the drop dead either/or subscription or nothing model. They say it was not for piracy but I don't actually believe that. Plus offering you the chance to buy an already out dated version of PS is really not anything great!
I can understand the cost savings of not offering a boxed retail version but they could make a d/l version for those of us who still crave owning our software. If the subscription model is so fantastic, offering a purchase option would not hurt it!
Or would it?



Jul 22, 2013 at 04:16 PM
Eyeball
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Adobe and the cloud!


With a purchase option, Adobe would still be under the pressure of actually having to demonstrate added value in order to make the sale. Since this has become harder with its more mature products, Adobe doesn't want to have to do that anymore.

Adobe wants everyone to get used to thinking of its software as a service (even though currently very little of it is) so you just pay the monthly bill without thinking about it. Under this model, it can add new features and release patches when it feels like it without as much pressure on its revenue flow.

The old Adobe model was one where I buy the car and I decide when a new car gives me enough value that I buy it. The new model is one where I lease the car for as long as I want transportation and the manufacturer substitutes a new model under the lease whenever it feels like it. It's an imprecise analogy but one I think demonstrates what customers are giving up with the new model.

The more global answer to your question also is that when a company becomes the dominant player in a market segment, it can treat people more like consumers and less like customers. The company knows that some of the cows will stop producing milk but they can replace them with new stock. It's all about net milk production, not making people happy or satisfied.



Jul 22, 2013 at 04:40 PM
Arka
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Adobe and the cloud!


Eyeball wrote:
With a purchase option, Adobe would still be under the pressure of actually having to demonstrate added value in order to make the sale. Since this has become harder with its more mature products, Adobe doesn't want to have to do that anymore.

Adobe wants everyone to get used to thinking of its software as a service (even though currently very little of it is) so you just pay the monthly bill without thinking about it. Under this model, it can add new features and release patches when it feels like it without as much pressure on its revenue flow.

The old
...Show more

Exactly. It seems to me that Adobe is in deep trouble. "Creative Cloud" is a gambit to keep cashflow coming in, even as meaningful innovation on Adobe's core products may decline. That said, I'm sure there are many smaller companies able to out-invent Adobe; indeed, the only "innovation" needed to attract me to a viable PS alternative today is a reasonable price for a perpetual license.

The Creative Cloud has prompted me and others to seek out PS alternatives, and reduce dependence upon Photoshop. Adobe's success in moving to a rental-only model will turn upon whether the loss of revenue from people like me is greater than the revenue gained from obligate renters.

Arka C.




Jul 24, 2013 at 04:39 AM
thedigitalbean
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Adobe and the cloud!


EB-1 wrote:
Are the files created locked in some way or keyed to the particular subscription?

EBH


Good heavens, don't give them any ideas!



Jul 24, 2013 at 05:44 AM
Mr Mouse
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Adobe and the cloud!


Check out Photoline if your looking for something else to use.


Jul 24, 2013 at 01:12 PM
ebiggs
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Adobe and the cloud!


"... Creative Cloud" is a gambit to keep cashflow coming in, even as meaningful innovation on Adobe's core products may decline. ..."

Why in the world would they stop improving? The are always going to try and expand their subscription base no matter if it is purchase or rent.



Jul 24, 2013 at 01:17 PM
Arka
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Adobe and the cloud!


ebiggs wrote:
Why in the world would they stop improving? The are always going to try and expand their subscription base no matter if it is purchase or rent.


If users are dependent on PS for existing functionality, Adobe can collect rents without innovating at all. The only time they have to "innovate" is when when a competitor offers a comparable package that is attractive to Adobe's renting base. Adobe can respond by offering the same or slightly better functionality.

Under a perpetual license model, Adobe had to convince users at each upgrade cycle that a new version had desirable features. That gets harder to do as products mature. Further, Adobe could not cash in on the dependency of their installed user base. That many artists haven't paid Adobe a dime in over a decade, and still use PS7 to churn out amazing content, is evidence of that.

However, perpetual rent allows Adobe to capitalize on the fact that some people and companies just need Photoshop as it exists today. Adobe's incentive to innovate under the "cloud" model is mostly driven by external competitors threatening the dependency of installed users, rather than a desire to sell a better product every 18 months.



Jul 24, 2013 at 08:48 PM
Mr Mouse
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Adobe and the cloud!


Adobe keep adding in new bugs. Who even want an Adobe upgrade.


Jul 24, 2013 at 10:39 PM
ebiggs
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Adobe and the cloud!


Arka wrote:
If users are dependent on PS for existing functionality, Adobe can collect rents without innovating at all.


Maybe you have a point but usually a company that stands still gets run over. I can't imagine Adobe will stop adding new "features" perceived or real in their cloud model. Just as you can't grow your market share by downsizing, you can't stop offering new and better either.



Jul 25, 2013 at 01:44 PM
butchM
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Adobe and the cloud!


Arka wrote:
If users are dependent on PS for existing functionality, Adobe can collect rents without innovating at all.


I don't know for sure ... maybe I'm too "Old School" ... though, I agree on this issue. In my experience.

I have never observed a business that tended to exceed expectations when their employees ... or their business model went from a merit system to a "salaried" or an otherwise guaranteed revenue system ... the latter model always seems to lean toward complacency and lack luster style for the long haul ... ending in mediocrity instead of innovation where pushing the envelope is a high priority.

Whenever any business seems to lead to such a policy ... exceeding goals becomes secondary and furthering earnings becomes primary.

I much prefer a system or policy where merit is rewarded for taking the effort further towards the goal ... than to reward average improvement for time served.



Jul 27, 2013 at 03:14 AM
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