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Building a new computer....
  
 
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #1 · Building a new computer....


I have been using Elements for a few years, and honestly it does 99% of what I want it to do. Assuming that Photoshop Elements 11 has camera raw support for the 6D, I can't see that I will ever really NEED anything more powerful. I also see myself using Premiere Elements fairly often to edit the HD video from the 6D.

My question is one that is not easily answered, at least by conventional sources, so I turn to FM.

I plan to build a new computer, and I am having a hard time deciding what I need. I am considering a Haswell i7, probably 4770. However, I can't decide if I need a dedicated graphics card or not. There are a ton of cards for not too much money, under $70. However, is this even necessary? I have heard that the latest on chip graphics cards of the haswell processors are pretty good. But does Elements even take advantage of a dedicated graphics card anyway? I don't play games or do any 3D rendering or anything like that. I plan on having a 128 GB SSD for the OS and programs, and I figure that will be a huge boost in speed

Any advice or experience is welcomed. Thanks



Jul 12, 2013 at 02:19 AM
WAYCOOL
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p.1 #2 · Building a new computer....


In photoshop the only filters that use the video card are the new creative blur ones and liquify. Not sure if they are in Elements or not but if they are not a big part of you work flow then you do not need a dedicated video card.

A quick web search shows that Premiere Elements dose not use the graphics card either so the Haswell video is good for that also.



Jul 12, 2013 at 04:59 AM
gabimaster
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p.1 #3 · Building a new computer....


Yes, it would be better to know that you have one inside. You never know when you will need one ( a game to relax or something that in the future will require a dedicated grphic card ) . At 120$ you can buy a graphic card with GTX 650 gpu and for 150$ a GTX 650 TI gpu ( I recommend Gygabyte OC versions or ASUS ,MSI ,etc - for 3 years warranty).


Jul 12, 2013 at 08:43 AM
aubsxc
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p.1 #4 · Building a new computer....


To the OP: First, I would get the 4770K over the 4770. The latter has locked multipliers and can't be overclocked. Even with all the Haswell integrated heat spreader issues, you will still be able to overclock the K cpu by a few hundred MHz, and every little bit helps.

Second: the Haswells come with a pretty good integrated GPU that should be adequate for most non-gaming/rendering use. However, if Premiere Elements can use GPU compute with OpenCL or Cuda, you would potentially see huge gains by adding even a fairly basic video card to the system. You need to find out if Premiere Elements is able to do so.



Jul 12, 2013 at 11:51 AM
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #5 · Building a new computer....


I have no interest in overclocking.

So I have what looks like 1 vote for, 1 against the graphics card.

Thanks for your replies guys.



Jul 12, 2013 at 12:28 PM
bboule
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p.1 #6 · Building a new computer....


I think the best reason you can find for a good dedicated graphics card for a photo editing machine is to have a card with 2 identical interfaces (2xDVI, 2xDP, etc..) for mounting 2 identical monitors and getting everything calibrated up as closely as possible.

Last year I built a new machine, I started with just the simple intel integrated graphics on the i7. Definitely fine for my use (mostly Lightroom), but when I added a second identical monitor I had to go buy a better video card that had 2 DVI ports.

If you are building from scratch maybe you can find a motherboard with 2xDVI or 2xDP.. it seems like a lot of them (like mine) have 1xDVI + 1xVGA. You won't get 2 24"+ monitors to look the same if one of them is on VGA.



Jul 12, 2013 at 12:39 PM
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #7 · Building a new computer....


bboule wrote:
I think the best reason you can find for a good dedicated graphics card for a photo editing machine is to have a card with 2 identical interfaces (2xDVI, 2xDP, etc..) for mounting 2 identical monitors and getting everything calibrated up as closely as possible.

Last year I built a new machine, I started with just the simple intel integrated graphics on the i7. Definitely fine for my use (mostly Lightroom), but when I added a second identical monitor I had to go buy a better video card that had 2 DVI ports.

If you are building from scratch maybe you can
...Show more

That's a good point, and I did find a GT 630 I think with dual-dvi link...however, I have never been a huge fan of the 2 monitor setup. If I did use 2 dvi, it would probably be to drive something like a 1440p setup :-/

But, since you mentioned it, the i7 with just integrated graphics was ok?



Jul 12, 2013 at 12:42 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #8 · Building a new computer....


I would build without and find out if the Intel GPU is good enough. If not then add a video card later on

Mike



Jul 12, 2013 at 03:14 PM
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #9 · Building a new computer....


mcbroomf wrote:
I would build without and find out if the Intel GPU is good enough. If not then add a video card later on

Mike


That is kind of how I have been leaning. Would be easy to add one on later.



Jul 12, 2013 at 03:17 PM
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p.1 #10 · Building a new computer....


http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4483#ov

This motherboard will do 3 4K monitors at the same time with the Haswell chip, 2 HDMI and a DP. Will also make a great Hackintosh



Jul 12, 2013 at 03:47 PM
 

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John S. Hudson
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p.1 #11 · Building a new computer....


a little out of my budget probably!


Jul 12, 2013 at 03:49 PM
theSuede
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p.1 #12 · Building a new computer....


I'd put one more vote for "wait and see"...

Really, buying the graphics card later isn't that much of a hassle, unless you're paying freight separately. And that's probably just a percent of the cost anyway.

If you're feeling the need to keep costs down, do look at the i5 Haswell "K" also. The difference in performance in Elements between them is only in the low-single digit percents in most cases, but the price for the i7 is 100$ higher. Get more and faster memory in stead for that money, or a larger/faster SSD to run the system off. That will make a lot more difference in the overall feeling of responsiveness of the computer.

The pure image processing performance is only one small part of the impression you get from using a system, unless you're doing specialized stuff like exporting hundreds of raw images per day, stitching HUGE panos or something like that. Then optimizing every last bit of performance can be worth it - but to run Elements with so to say "normal" use loads? Doubt it.



Jul 12, 2013 at 04:18 PM
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #13 · Building a new computer....


theSuede wrote:
I'd put one more vote for "wait and see"...

Really, buying the graphics card later isn't that much of a hassle, unless you're paying freight separately. And that's probably just a percent of the cost anyway.

If you're feeling the need to keep costs down, do look at the i5 Haswell "K" also. The difference in performance in Elements between them is only in the low-single digit percents in most cases, but the price for the i7 is 100$ higher. Get more and faster memory in stead for that money, or a larger/faster SSD to run the system off. That will make
...Show more

Interesting. I havn't ruled out one of the Haswell i5 quad cores. It seemed like a cheap but pretty powerful processor. However a lot of people have said to me, get the i7. Wouldn't it benefit me in the long run to have that now? That way in 3-4 years it will still be somewhat relevant?



Jul 12, 2013 at 04:23 PM
theSuede
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p.1 #14 · Building a new computer....


It would benefit, but only by a few percent of absolute processing speed in your intended application.
Those few percent can be compensated better by other spendings, IMO.



Jul 12, 2013 at 06:30 PM
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #15 · Building a new computer....


reflecting an i5 and no graphics card, this is what i have come up with to start with, give or take a few different brands here and there.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fUJe
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fUJe/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fUJe/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($159.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: MSI B85-G41 PC Mate ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: PNY 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($89.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Sandisk 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Gamma Classic (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.73 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $637.64
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-12 14:31 EDT-0400)



Jul 12, 2013 at 06:32 PM
aubsxc
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p.1 #16 · Building a new computer....


John S. Hudson wrote:
reflecting an i5 and no graphics card, this is what i have come up with to start with, give or take a few different brands here and there.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fUJe
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fUJe/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fUJe/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($159.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: MSI B85-G41 PC Mate ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: PNY 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($89.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Sandisk 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Gamma Classic (Black)
...Show more


Thats a nice build on a very tight budget. I would suggest going with the i5 4670 (faster) and a better motherboard, like an MSI z87 G45 or higher, or a Gigabyte z87 UD3H or higher. These boards are much better built than the cheapest boards and offer better reliability/stability and performance. You also want to get an aftermarket CPU cooler, like a Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus or Evo ($20 to $3) or Corsair H50 or H60 ($50 or slightly more). The Haswell processors use a crappy integrated heatspreader and run really hot under load, and the stock Intel heatsink is ineffective at running these at decent temperatures.

And again, I would strong recommend buying an unlocked K processor, as there are significant gains to be had even with modest overclocks with minimal effort.


Edited on Jul 12, 2013 at 07:20 PM · View previous versions



Jul 12, 2013 at 07:08 PM
aubsxc
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p.1 #17 · Building a new computer....


John S. Hudson wrote:
Interesting. I havn't ruled out one of the Haswell i5 quad cores. It seemed like a cheap but pretty powerful processor. However a lot of people have said to me, get the i7. Wouldn't it benefit me in the long run to have that now? That way in 3-4 years it will still be somewhat relevant?


The non-HT i5 quads perform just as well as the HT i7 quads with most, but not all applications. HT can significantly improve performance with heavily multithreaded tasks like rendering and video creation, but thee HT CPUs cost significantly more than their non-HT brethren. You can find some comparisons here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/6



Jul 12, 2013 at 07:14 PM
aubsxc
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p.1 #18 · Building a new computer....


Some good discounts on Haswell combos at Newegg right now

http://promotions.newegg.com/combo/13-2928/index.html



Jul 12, 2013 at 11:58 PM
Access
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p.1 #19 · Building a new computer....


You can always add the graphics card(s) later. Since you are not gaming or doing CAD or something that requires a lot of graphics usage, you really shouldn't need one.

Unless Windows 8 has improved a lot I would avoid it, most people I know avoid it like the plague, it's interface is designed more for social media and stuff like that rather than actually getting work done, just too many issues with established apps and other things.



Jul 13, 2013 at 12:03 AM
John S. Hudson
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p.1 #20 · Building a new computer....


Access wrote:
You can always add the graphics card(s) later. Since you are not gaming or doing CAD or something that requires a lot of graphics usage, you really shouldn't need one.

Unless Windows 8 has improved a lot I would avoid it, most people I know avoid it like the plague, it's interface is designed more for social media and stuff like that rather than actually getting work done, just too many issues with established apps and other things.


I don't really want to use it, but 8.1 is supposed to be a lot better, and it supports a lot of RAM, plus its supposed to be pretty fast as an OS...I'll probably learn to like it. I mean, can't use 7 forever.



Jul 13, 2013 at 12:11 AM
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