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Archive 2013 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?
  
 
Sneakyracer
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


It would be cool if Canon makes a high resolution DSLR and a true successor to the 1DS series (which no matter what marketing says the 1DX is Not) with state of the art pixel quality.

I would have certainly purchased it. It would have saved me a bunch of cash since for my high resolution needs I had to purchase a Phase One IQ160, Arca Swiss body and rodenstock HR lenses + a Hasselblad H1 body and lens. Although the Arca and rodenstock lenses are just superb for landscape and architecture (what I got them for) and no DSLR body is going top that but it might be close enough.

Canon just needs to match or exceed the Nikon D800/E quality in regards to color and dynamic range (shadow detail and color). Thats really the only aspect Canon is "lacking" when compared to Nikon. Everything else IMHO is as good or better. (AF, body / menu design, viewfinder, lens line etc)



Jul 03, 2013 at 09:44 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


These discussions concerning the impact that higher-resolution files with higher file sizes have on processing is quite grounded in reality, but also quite silly.

I'm a computer geek. I've been one since I was 10, and that was a long, long time ago (for me, I'm not that old), but I do remember when Windows was something you started from a prompt. I've been building computers since then and have no problem assembling something imminently powerful for whatever purpose, to the limits that are available to consumers.

You can imagine that I think this discussion, as I said above, is silly; just build a faster computer. Need more cores? Easy. More RAM? That's cheap. Storage? Like a boss.

If I need more clockspeed, I'll slap some better cooling on it and tighten down the screws. I can do that.

And I can't see how this is a problem for any of you- if you can afford this thing, and even if you're married to Apple (and that's not a bad thing, for the line of work involved), there are straightforward solutions out there.

It really should not be a part of the discussion, beyond recognizing that we'll need a little more 'whatever'. We do that all the time anyway. Move and talk about how this product could add to your photography, and photography in general, please!



Jul 03, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Sneakyracer
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


I process my Phase One IQ160 (60MP, 16bit) files just fine on my MacBook Pro (current gen, non-retina) just fine. Granted, I shoot a much lower volume of images with medium format. Processing speed is basically a non issue today for most practical purposes.


Jul 04, 2013 at 12:09 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


pKai wrote:
Outside of this (high MP body) discussion -- their (and presumably Canon's) vision for the future is this: High-enough resolution video where still photography is made essentially obsolete. IOW, point your 4K (or 32k someday) video camera in "that direction", shoot "for a while" and in post you can crop whatever composition and frame suits you and still retain enough pixels for a huge print. Imagine a fashion shoot done this way. Video everything and in post pull the exact frames you want. Its like having a 60 frame per second motor drive running for 2 hours straight. No way
...Show more

Canon can stick that vision where the sun don't shine. To think I'm going to troll through terabytes of data finding just the right still, they can dream on. One reason I have little interest in video is the processing side of it. Video could be a useful aid to still photography, but if they are looking at still photography being an aside to video, forget it; what ever still cameras I'm using when that time arrives will be my last.



Jul 04, 2013 at 12:19 AM
johnctharp
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


I'm not sure why pulling stills out of video would be so hard- non-linear editors make zeroing in on a single frame fast and easy (and those are at least partially GPU accelerated).

It's the whole limited-resolution thing; 4k isn't even a full 8MP, and you're not getting RAW with that, unless you're cropping at the sensor. So unless the full 36x24mm sensor is only ~8MP, you lose data in the process, and that's no bueno.

Now, if Canon were to put a 2.5" SATA slot on one of these and build up their controller to support that data flow- well, that would be something. Something big.



Jul 04, 2013 at 07:35 AM
anthonygh
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


markd61 wrote:
Whether anyone would need a 50MP+ camera is debatable but Canon (or anyone else) could make 80MP+ sensors tomorrow. The two issues that the manufacturers consider are technical and marketing.
The tech issues are addressable. They already possess the ability to include a lot of features that the public has requested.
The real problem for them is to maintain a steady flow of tantalizing product without blowing out all the goodies in one go and leaving nothing in the tank.


Sort of like Adobe and CS6. Maybe Canon can go down the 'rental' path as well!!

Seriously....is there any practical point in 50MB sensors? I get great A2 prints from my 5D. And my 40D and 1GX. Say I had a 5D3...presumably I'd be great A1 prints or even larger. But who needs to do this? Who could afford to do this? Who wants to do this?

The proverbial one in a million probably...so not a marketing priority for a company like Canon. If it became commonplace then Canon would have to react in much the same way as m/cycle manufacturers seem to need a high end bike able to do 300 kph....a pointless performance but good for owners to boast about...



Jul 04, 2013 at 02:19 PM
chez
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


anthonygh wrote:
Sort of like Adobe and CS6. Maybe Canon can go down the 'rental' path as well!!

Seriously....is there any practical point in 50MB sensors? I get great A2 prints from my 5D. And my 40D and 1GX. Say I had a 5D3...presumably I'd be great A1 prints or even larger. But who needs to do this? Who could afford to do this? Who wants to do this?

The proverbial one in a million probably...so not a marketing priority for a company like Canon. If it became commonplace then Canon would have to react in much the same way as m/cycle manufacturers
...Show more

Typical answer. Just because I don't see a need for 50MB sensors means there is no need for it.

I don't shoot high ISO...who needs it.

I don't shoot more than 1 shot...who needs 10fps.

I don't auto-bracket my exposures...who need it.

I don't shoot with fast telephotos...who needs them.

I don't shoot macro...who needs it.

Get the point



Jul 04, 2013 at 02:42 PM
alundeb
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


anthonygh wrote:
Seriously....is there any practical point in 50MB sensors? I get great A2 prints from my 5D. And my 40D and 1GX. Say I had a 5D3...presumably I'd be great A1 prints or even larger. But who needs to do this? Who could afford to do this? Who wants to do this?


The context is that FF digital is the new medium format, with huge cost savings and greatly improved functionality.

Seriously, was there any point in Medium Format photography?

Get the point?



Jul 04, 2013 at 05:29 PM
Breitling65
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


Deardorff5x7 wrote:
If one takes the sensor size of the newly announced 70D and figures it for a full frame size sensor you come up with a 50 megapixel camera.

Looking good for the near future.

Now if Canon would only put a manual mirror lockup feature on it I would be very interested.



Why would anyone need such resolution? I don't own supercomputer to PP such mpx's



Jul 04, 2013 at 05:40 PM
EB-1
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


I was working with 100-120MP 4000 DPI scanned images in 2002. It was a bit slow then even with SCSI and RAID, but processing large files is nothing today. My final output is mostly 100MP-500MP stitched images now.

EBH



Jul 04, 2013 at 06:30 PM
 

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kezeka
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


Gochugogi wrote:
I don't think too many people would want to pay for a 50MP camera. Besides a big initial layout for the camera, you'd need a 12core workstation, a wall of SSD RAID, a massive printer to take advantage of the resulting files, the best glass money can buy, etc.



Seeing the workflow hit my friend took while he was using "just" 36 megapixels in the D800, I can't imagine anything short of what you mentioned to keep a decent pace in post processing workflow. Then again, the guys using this probably aren't going to be journalists kicking out 2000 photos/day at an event or wedding.



Jul 05, 2013 at 01:29 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


kezeka wrote:
Seeing the workflow hit my friend took while he was using "just" 36 megapixels in the D800, I can't imagine anything short of what you mentioned to keep a decent pace in post processing workflow. Then again, the guys using this probably aren't going to be journalists kicking out 2000 photos/day at an event or wedding.


Wouldn't hurt to have better coding from say Adobe to speed up their programs like Lightroom though.



Jul 05, 2013 at 01:55 AM
Gochugogi
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Wouldn't hurt to have better coding from say Adobe to speed up their programs like Lightroom though.


It does start to really creak with a large RAW file and lots of tweaks. Getting to be the MS Word of photo apps. Wish there was something more nimble but still powerful.



Jul 05, 2013 at 02:21 AM
RobertLynn
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


Doctorbird wrote:
The cost of 30 rolls of film is roughly $300, but we don't think in those terms anymore.

Db

I don't know if the Smithsonian sells their exhibits.



Jul 05, 2013 at 02:30 AM
Gochugogi
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


This guy just spend well over $100,000 on Velvia:

http://petapixel.com/2013/07/04/this-massive-batch-of-fuji-velvia-50-8x10-film-cost-a-photographer-100000/#more-116580



Jul 05, 2013 at 04:02 AM
code137
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


After shooting both the D800 and 5D3 for a bit now, I would appreciate an equivalent from Canon. The increased ability to crop is kind of nice in some situations. That said, I'd also want to see similar improvements in dynamic range, metering system, and lowlight focus. Obviously fps and buffer would take a hit similar to the D800, but I actually kind of like the option of crop modes with increased frame rates. The D800 can shoot 5fps at both 1.2x crop and 1.5x. I think it would have been a bit nicer to have 5fps at 1.2x and 7+ fps at 1.5x.

As for processing, I don't see that as too much of an issue. The D800 files only seem to take a fraction longer to load and process. I really don't notice too much of a difference between processing the 5D3 and D800 files.



Jul 05, 2013 at 07:58 AM
alundeb
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


anthonygh wrote:
I get great A2 prints from my 5D. And my 40D and 1GX. Say I had a 5D3...presumably I'd be great A1 prints or even larger. But who needs to do this? Who could afford to do this? Who wants to do this?



I must wonder, have you ever seen an A2 print from a good D800 file? Let alone compared it to an A2 print from a good 40D file?



Jul 05, 2013 at 08:43 AM
justruss
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


Sneakyracer wrote:
I process my Phase One IQ160 (60MP, 16bit) files just fine on my MacBook Pro (current gen, non-retina) just fine. Granted, I shoot a much lower volume of images with medium format. Processing speed is basically a non issue today for most practical purposes.


+1

I think this deserves repeating.

Obviously you don't buy a 36+ MP camera if your computer isn't up to the task. And most computers will be up to the task. And a hypothetical 50 MP Canon isn't going to be designed for the high-volume shooter when it first comes out.

Higher resolutions-- if done well, as they almost always are in DSLRs-- give you better crop-flexibility, print size at close viewing distance, and high ISO noise control (even if it only matches previous gen, or barely loses to previous gen, at the pixel level). So far, each generation of DSLR, no matter the resolution increase, has maintained or improved on DR. So it's not like we're risking high MP over almost any other measure, except perhaps FPS... but FPS isn't going to be the priority of the photographer who buys the highest MP camera in her segment.

Current computers-- notably for someone who can afford the highest resolution FF camera on the market and glass to get the most out of the sensor-- are plenty fast to handle the files. Storage is a non-issue to this market too. And none of the camera makers are going to release their ultra-high resolution cameras and all of sudden stop producing lower resolution (likely consumer models and high-end FPS models) cameras. So their will always be a range of options.

I do expect a high MP camera from Canon in the not so distante future. This is based on nothing other than a guess, heavily influenced by the competition's offerings (D800 in a DSLR, and even the RX1 slightly surpassing the 5D3 in a tiny package). But I don't see the fact that a 20mp APS-C was just announced as telling us anything. As other posters have mentioned... if we upscaled from APS-C (let alone smaller sizes) going back historically we still haven't met those densities in FF cameras.



Jul 05, 2013 at 09:21 AM
mickr7an
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


Gochugogi wrote:
I don't think too many people would want to pay for a 50MP camera. Besides a big initial layout for the camera, you'd need a 12core workstation, a wall of SSD RAID, a massive printer to take advantage of the resulting files, the best glass money can buy, etc.


You're obviously forgetting about professionals and the fact that 80mp cameras already exist.



Jul 05, 2013 at 11:48 AM
pookipichu
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · 70D means 50MP full frame coming?


I edit D800 and P65 files on a $1200 laptop with no problems (CS6), zippy enough, not a workstation, not super powerful. Unless you work with these files, you might want to tone down the wild speculation of what type of hardware you'll need.


mickr7an wrote:
You're obviously forgetting about professionals and the fact that 80mp cameras already exist.




Jul 05, 2013 at 06:36 PM
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