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Archive 2013 · Canon EOS 70D
  
 
gocolts
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Canon EOS 70D


Camperjim wrote:
Why do you assume the "new" sensor has better noise performance? I think Canon stretched real hard to get in the ballpark of the 7100 resolution. They may have pushed their existing technology and actually now the noise performance may be worse.


Maybe I'm giving Canon too much credit to assume they wouldn't bring out a new sensor which has worse noise performance then their old sensor, especially when you consider how long it took for this sensor to arrive to market.

If it's not better, I think a lot of other potential customers will be surprised and disappointed. This isn't a Rebel, the xxD users typically know a little more about cameras and pay attention to this stuff, generally speaking.



Jun 28, 2013 at 02:16 PM
Camperjim
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Canon EOS 70D


gocolts wrote:
Maybe I'm giving Canon too much credit to assume they wouldn't bring out a new sensor which has worse noise performance then their old sensor, especially when you consider how long it took for this sensor to arrive to market.

If it's not better, I think a lot of other potential customers will be surprised and disappointed. This isn't a Rebel, the xxD users typically know a little more about cameras and pay attention to this stuff, generally speaking.

I hope you are right. Personally I think Canon coasted on technology and now is trying real hard to appear competitive. After 3-4 years, they need something new on the shelves. Maybe the 7D replacement will be something special, but for now it appears Canon doesn't have much.



Jun 28, 2013 at 02:37 PM
andyjaggy82
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Canon EOS 70D


It's all going to depend on how good the sensor is, if it's a step up then this camera will do well, if it's not, then I wouldn't expect this camera to sell well........ oh wait, this is Canon we are talking about, people will buy it whether it's good or not.

I'm currently at a cross roads with my equipment and am on the fence with varying options. Ditching Canon entirely and going with another SLR system, or another mirrorless system. Ditching the SLR and hoping Canon comes out with a new mirrorless camera soon. Holding out for just a bit to see what this 70D is like, or even holding out longer to see what the new 7D II will be like. Selling the 7D and upgrading to the 6D, etc.... The next year will be very interesting for me.



Jun 28, 2013 at 02:37 PM
Camperjim
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Canon EOS 70D


Andy, I am in the same boat. I was really hoping Canon would move forward with a 24+ mp sensor and other features geared toward serious photography. Now I don't see any reason to upgrade my T3i for 2 more megapixels. I really don't want to go full frame. The camera body is really not the issue. I do lots of hiking and do not want to carry (or pay for) equivalents for my APS-C lenses: 15-85, 60 macro, 55-250, and 10-22. With improvements in camera technology I want to downsize or stay at APS-C rather than upsize to FF.


Jun 28, 2013 at 02:49 PM
andyjaggy82
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Canon EOS 70D


Camperjim wrote:
Andy, I am in the same boat. I was really hoping Canon would move forward with a 24+ mp sensor and other features geared toward serious photography. Now I don't see any reason to upgrade my T3i for 2 more megapixels. I really don't want to go full frame. The camera body is really not the issue. I do lots of hiking and do not want to carry (or pay for) equivalents for my APS-C lenses: 15-85, 60 macro, 55-250, and 10-22. With improvements in camera technology I want to downsize or stay at APS-C rather than upsize to FF.


My camera is with me hiking 90% of the time so size and weight is a big issue for me, which is why I am strongly considering going mirrorless. I don't need fast autofocus or any other fancy features, just really good image quality in a small and light package. I have been using the Sigma Merrill cameras and am extremely impressed with them, however there are some limitations, mainly when shooting sunburst/sunrises that necessitate me not ditching all of my other gear yet.

I wish I knew what Canon's plans were for that segment of the market. At the current price for the EOS-M it is being extremely tempting to sell all of my SLR gear and go that route, The IQ from the M will be equal to that of my 7D, it is basically the same sensor after all. The one thing keeping me back is the thought that Canon will be releasing a new mirrorless camera soon. Still just the 22mm lens alone seems to be worth the price they are asking for the entire camera and lens.



Jun 28, 2013 at 03:21 PM
chez
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Canon EOS 70D


andyjaggy82 wrote:
My camera is with me hiking 90% of the time so size and weight is a big issue for me, which is why I am strongly considering going mirrorless. I don't need fast autofocus or any other fancy features, just really good image quality in a small and light package. I have been using the Sigma Merrill cameras and am extremely impressed with them, however there are some limitations, mainly when shooting sunburst/sunrises that necessitate me not ditching all of my other gear yet.

I wish I knew what Canon's plans were for that segment of the market. At the current
...Show more

Have you looked at the Olympus and Fuji mirrorless systems. The images they produce rival and quite often surpass Canon's crops sensors. They have a large assortment of lens, perfect setup for hiking.



Jun 28, 2013 at 03:44 PM
jasonsim
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Canon EOS 70D


I too was really hoping for the 24MP. I am looking at my next APS-C camera for wildlife and sports uses. 7FPS is heading in the right direction, but thinking that 8FPS should be the baseline; especially birding. 10FPS and 12FPS is nice, but I find that it is not really needed and makes for a brutal post processing with hundreds and hundreds of frames. I can see the need for pro sports shooters that bank on getting that just perfect frame in an action sequence. But for the hobbyist, I'm not worried about missing a few frames. Hell my 5D III is sufficient in that regard to get some spectacular "money" shots.

Not sure that the 19 point AF is sufficient, unless it has been updated with double cross type points and a AF drive that is similar to the 5D III. I don't mind just the 19 points...those were spread out nicely on the 7D, if memory serves my right.

Jury still out on 70D as a wildlife / sports DSLR for the hobbyist.

Thoughts?



Jun 28, 2013 at 03:47 PM
jjoejr
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Canon EOS 70D


3 1/2 years and nothing has replaced the 1D Iv as a great birding camera in regards to speed, quality, focal length, and focusing for the economically distressed such as I. Not to mention a well rounded portrait and landscape camera also. Will the 7D II be the answer? Cause this model doesn't look like it's gonna fit the bill. Still waiting but still content with ye ol mark IV and lovin it.


Jun 28, 2013 at 04:27 PM
M Lucca
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Canon EOS 70D


It so ironic to see some folks here pining for larger MP with a crop cam while the Nikonions are looking for less mp with the mythical D400. This is quite hilarious.

Don't care about the x0d cameras since the 60d. The swivel screen is the only thing that is unique and useful. The 70d continues that trend. It will sell well just like the 70d especially to young hdslr crowd.



Jun 28, 2013 at 05:27 PM
cputeq
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Canon EOS 70D


I will say this in defense of Canon --their business model is fantastic.

Sure, enthusiasts like us hate the fact they've recycled their 18MP crop sensor so many times now, but from a pure business standpoint, it's an excellent move. You recoup all the sunk costs of R&D, and economies of scale mean profits just increase more.

Eventually they have to dump more cash in R&D, which maybe they've done, or maybe the jungle of patents out there are blocking some of their progress, but I doubt Canon's "sensor problems" are due to incompetence.



Jun 28, 2013 at 07:59 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



M Lucca
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Canon EOS 70D


^ Reminds me of that diminutive 2.0t engine that Audi/VW use on most of their cars. From lowly Golf to top end TT and everything in b/t. Talk about recouping R&D and tooling costs!



Jun 28, 2013 at 08:18 PM
Gochugogi
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Canon EOS 70D


M Lucca wrote:
It so ironic to see some folks here pining for larger MP with a crop cam while the Nikonions are looking for less mp with the mythical D400. This is quite hilarious.

Don't care about the x0d cameras since the 60d. The swivel screen is the only thing that is unique and useful. The 70d continues that trend. It will sell well just like the 70d especially to young hdslr crowd.


I rarely print bigger than 13x19 so even the 13MP 5D gave amazing clarity. The real world difference in print quality between 20MP and 24 is tiny and would only be visible in huge murals viewed at nose range. But I suspect 24MP is mentally comforting to some and will help defeat feelings of inadequacy next to their more MP endowed Nikon kinfolk.



Jun 28, 2013 at 09:04 PM
kevindar
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Canon EOS 70D


Few things to keep in mind.
1. The kind or high iso improvements which we had seen in the early upgrades simply cannot be duplicated. The current designs are nearing their quantum efficiency limits. a half stop improvement in S/N is a huge improvement, and not many people would even notice it.
2. For all our complaints about canon Sensor, where it is behind sony is in base ISO DR. If they can improve that by one stop, then there is really not much separating the sensors. Canon sensors actually have better DR usually pass iso 800.
As far as the sensor part of equation goes, we are dealing with a much more mature product that what was available 10, or even 5 years ago. As such, improvements will be in other areas, autofocus, hopefully the contrast detect autofocus (that would be huge actually for many people) FPS and write speed, additional bells and whistles (touch screen, wifi, etc). For some these would be worth the upgrade. for people new to photography, they are getting a lot of nice stuff. for most, the improvements are only incremental, and if we did not have such a strong consumerism mentality, we could skip a generation or two, and use our cameras for 5-6 years, instead of 2-3 years. In the olden days of film, people had the same camera for 10+ years. It was a good thing.



Jun 28, 2013 at 09:44 PM
AaronNegro
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Canon EOS 70D


Must agree.

My eyes are on the sensor. I hope I will soon see a great Canon CMOS sensor without AA filter in a small package so I can take it hiking or with the children for holidays.

If DR and contrast AF seems to be the way of improvement for Canon I can see the best application in a mirror-less camera.


kevindar wrote:
Few things to keep in mind.
1. The kind or high iso improvements which we had seen in the early upgrades simply cannot be duplicated. The current designs are nearing their quantum efficiency limits. a half stop improvement in S/N is a huge improvement, and not many people would even notice it.
2. For all our complaints about canon Sensor, where it is behind sony is in base ISO DR. If they can improve that by one stop, then there is really not much separating the sensors. Canon sensors actually have better DR usually pass iso 800.
As far as the sensor
...Show more



Jun 29, 2013 at 07:54 AM
alundeb
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Canon EOS 70D


Gochugogi wrote:
I rarely print bigger than 13x19 so even the 13MP 5D gave amazing clarity. The real world difference in print quality between 20MP and 24 is tiny and would only be visible in huge murals viewed at nose range. But I suspect 24MP is mentally comforting to some and will help defeat feelings of inadequacy next to their more MP endowed Nikon kinfolk.


I agree that the difference between 20 and 24 Mp is very very tiny. Think that a patch of detail is covered by 10x10 pixels instead of 11x11 pixels.

On the other hand, have you ever tried printing a large file at 720 ppi and then compared to printing the same patch downrezzed to 240 ppi and the same output size? I am not saying that 13x19 prints from 12 MP don't look good, but that if the increase in resolution is really really high, you can see a difference even there.



Jun 29, 2013 at 08:34 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Canon EOS 70D


jasonsim wrote:
I too was really hoping for the 24MP. I am looking at my next APS-C camera for wildlife and sports uses. 7FPS is heading in the right direction, but thinking that 8FPS should be the baseline; especially birding. 10FPS and 12FPS is nice, but I find that it is not really needed and makes for a brutal post processing with hundreds and hundreds of frames. I can see the need for pro sports shooters that bank on getting that just perfect frame in an action sequence. But for the hobbyist, I'm not worried about missing a few frames. Hell my
...Show more

Canon's APS-C sensor is 11% smaller than the Nikon DX, so if you adding 11% to 20.2MP you are at 22.4MP, close enough to 24MP I'd say. I'm glad they didn't go to 24MP, as it is, 20.2MP is 51.7MP FF equivalent, giving the 70D an effective reach 1.52x that of the 5D III when FL limited.

70D looks like a nice entry level camera for sport/s wildlife, certainly doesn't appear to be lacking too much compared to the 7D, hopefully with better sensor. Hard to complain and I assume it will be a fair bit cheaper than 7D, due to competition from Nikon D7100 and it's no doubt lesser build quality than 7D.



Jun 29, 2013 at 09:50 AM
Ralph Wagner
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Canon EOS 70D


More info on the the 70D's AF system:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigicame-info.com%2F2013%2F06%2Feos-70ddual-pixcel-cmos.html



Jun 29, 2013 at 01:57 PM
Tom_W
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Canon EOS 70D


It'll be interesting to see how the new sensor performs. For me, it's all about the noise. I'm anxious to see how it performs. Guardedly anxious.

5D3 needs a partner!



Jun 29, 2013 at 03:30 PM
firstgear99
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Canon EOS 70D


After shooting with the 1Dx, I am not sure I will ever be satisfied with another camera. It really is that good. If the new camera could have as sharp as photos I would be happy......but.....will it?


Jun 29, 2013 at 06:50 PM
BluesWest
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Canon EOS 70D


In the olden days of film, people had the same camera for 10+ years. It was a good thing.

+1. The level of camera gear obsession nowadays -- with constant churning/upgrading by some people -- is simply ridiculous.

John



Jun 29, 2013 at 09:04 PM
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