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Archive 2013 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter
  
 
Jonas B
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p.7 #1 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Lol. I think my question at page 4 is answered. Yes, the RX1 is still that provocative. Not to everybody of course but there still seem to be a somewhat vocal group having problems with its existence. Yes, you can focus manually (normal view, or zoomed, in the EVF or on the LCD), or let the camera do it automatically (several options) - how crazy!

The focusing ring is not as nice to handle as a good traditional mechanical ring. So it is. But you have noticed the focus shift is speed dependent. It's the same with some of the micro 4/3 lenses and it's a nice feature.



Jun 30, 2013 at 10:16 AM
RustyBug
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p.7 #2 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Jonas B wrote:
But you have noticed the focus shift is speed dependent. It's the same with some of the micro 4/3 lenses and it's a nice feature.




Not familiar with this, could you clarify? MF by wire has never enthused me as having any real benefit (operationally) over traditional ... did I miss something?

We all like different tools/methods ... but in the end, the image speaks for itself, regardless of the means/method/gear/tools used. Personally, I once exclaimed about Ansel Adams "He cheats !!!" because he wasn't a purist @ getting his image "in camera" ... kinda silly, huh.

As long as you have command and control over your methods (whatever they may be) to produce your vision ... it really doesn't matter if you focus manually by wire, helicoid or rail vs. AF. I prefer MF for the precision it provides, but I sure will use AF when my tired/slow eyes aren't up to the task ... as long as it gets me the pic I want, any method is all fair game, imo.


Edited on Jun 30, 2013 at 02:42 PM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2013 at 01:41 PM
Jonas B
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p.7 #3 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


RustyBug wrote:


Not familiar with this, could you clarify? MF by wire has never enthused me as having any real benefit (operationally) over traditional ... did I miss something?


This means you can move the focusing ring slowly and move the focal plane in very fine steps. After having moved the ring, let's say x degrees the focal plane hasn't moved a lot at all. If you instead have moved the ring the same about but quickly the focus plane would have moved a lot more. This is quite usable when in a hurry (and after some practicing).

Well... for anyone used to good old well dampened focusing rings it's a bit hard to become enthusiastic about focusing by wire. There are a few good things going for the focusing by wire systems though when comparing the new to the old.

You can lock the focusing ring by simply setting the camera set to AF (not having the AF coupled to the shutter button then), you can make quick jumps as described above, if you wish you get an enlarged view when focusing manually. At first one may go nuts because of all the options but it doesn't take long getting used to how it works.

Everything isn't possible with all these systems. The RX1 focusing ring is well dampened, some Olympus and Panasonic rings are not. You can set the preferred direction of the focusing ring (not the RX1). Zone focusing is possible with all systems but more or less fiddly. I'm sure you know about other gimmicks (some of them very useful though) like face detection, smile detection, recognize a face and let focus follow that face.

I really like how the RX1 EVF is always showing the image at working aperture making DOF control in a big and bright viewfinder possible. People saying electronic viewfinders are bad in the dark don't know what they are talking about. OK, this is more than you asked for... but at least a little related.



Jun 30, 2013 at 02:30 PM
Spyro P.
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p.7 #4 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


real men focus by crank and sextant


Jun 30, 2013 at 02:32 PM
RustyBug
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p.7 #5 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Jonas B wrote:
The RX1 focusing ring is well dampened, some Olympus and Panasonic rings are not.


I've only tried poorly dampened ones ... gotcha, thanks.

BTW ... the extra info just saved me from asking the next series of logical questions to follow ... appreciated the insight.


Edited on Jun 30, 2013 at 03:48 PM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2013 at 02:34 PM
millsart
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p.7 #6 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


edwardkaraa wrote:
Let's cool down guys. The whole argument is not worth it.


Agreed. I'm sure we've all enjoyed a little dip into the likes of typical internet enthusiast gear forum depravity and perhaps got to take out some of our own lives frustrations on strangers from behind the keyboard but all and all its all pointless because no one is going to change the way they think.

RX1 is a polarizing camera for sure, and perhaps RX1 specific threads should follow suit, by either being for those who are interested in the camera, staying here, and those who prefer something else, going elsewhere and discussing the gear/brands they prefer.

Really though, love the camera, tolerate the camera or even hate the camera (or its price) I think we can all agree that Sony putting a FF sensor into a tiny body is a huge step in the right direction and it should help spur other brands to follow suit and keep pushing the tech edge further.

Doesn't matter if you shoot a Fuji XTran, a NEX, or even a Leica. A year or two down the road when you've got a FF Fuji, or FF NEX, or a $4000 true M-Mini, Sony is going to be at least partially to thank for it by showing that both it can be done, and that there is a real market for it.




Jun 30, 2013 at 04:08 PM
naturephoto1
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p.7 #7 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Many of us are just waiting for a FF mirroless camera that allow us to mount our legacy lenses and hopefully without changing mounts as in the case of my Leica R lenses.

Rich



Jun 30, 2013 at 04:15 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.7 #8 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Agreed millsart and Rich. Even though the RX1 is not for me, I feel it is one step nearer to that elusive FF interchangeable lens mirrorless that I and many have been waiting for, hence my interest in this thread.


Jun 30, 2013 at 04:18 PM
RustyBug
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p.7 #9 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


naturephoto1 wrote:
Many of us are just waiting for a FF mirroless camera that allow us to mount our legacy lenses and hopefully without changing mounts as in the case of my Leica R lenses.

Rich


... or Zeiss, Oly, Rokkor, Nikon, Canon, Mamiya, Hasseblad, Voigtlander, etc.

+1 @ Edwardkaraa



Jun 30, 2013 at 04:20 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.7 #10 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Funny thing happened yesterday while out shooting with an artist/ painter friend of mine. I pull out my RX1 to shoot and he looks over and says "is that a Leica?". I said no, it's better....Not really but it was interesting to see how a non-photog and non-gearhead reacted to the RX1.


Jun 30, 2013 at 06:39 PM
 

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millsart
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p.7 #11 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


I've surprisingly never gotten any reactions with the RX1 for anyone when out shooting. I've even let others take photos of me using it and no mention. Strangely, when doing the same with my RX100, I've gotten comments of "nice camera"

I think most non-gearheads probably see (or hold) the RX1 and givens its larger than P&S size, not to mention solid metal body heft probably think its rather outdated, akin to a big old Motorola brick cellphone.

They probably feel sorry for me not being able to upgrade to something far smaller/lighter like they've got in their pockets

I've actually gotten responses along those lines when out shooting with my Sigma Merrill as well. Had another photog come up and ask me if it was one of those original digital cameras and if it took a 3.5" floppy disc for storage. Certainly does have a mid 90's style, or lack there of, I fully admit.

Sometimes that total lack of drawing attention is a nice feature. I really wouldn't want a camera that screams out that its $2800.

I'm perfectly happy with it looking like a $250 Nikon J1 with kit zoom that I just bought on clearance.



Jun 30, 2013 at 10:46 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.7 #12 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


millsart wrote:
I've surprisingly never gotten any reactions with the RX1 for anyone when out shooting. I've even let others take photos of me using it and no mention. Strangely, when doing the same with my RX100, I've gotten comments of "nice camera"


Yeah, I guess it probably depends on how it's accessorized and how someone sees the RX1 being used. With either a finder or EVF on top, the camera looks a little more exotic and out of the ordinary to most non photogs I would think. Tilt the EVF up and hold the camera at chest level and it also probably gives the outward appearance something more serious is being used. It is funny how folks react to various cameras though.



Jul 01, 2013 at 01:12 AM
philip_pj
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p.7 #13 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


I second the pity the average person shows you when you 'only' have the RX1 to use, matter of fact I rely on this reaction.

Human subjects are much more comfortable as well than if you level a DSLR at them. Perhaps it's something to do with the evf, as they can see more of your head, whereas you disappear behind a DSLR. I really like the evf as it seems to assist with hand holding, and if you pretend the camera had a built-in evf, it would feel more awkward to hold.

Maybe if Sony makes another FL version, the evf may fit that as well.



Jul 01, 2013 at 11:41 AM
joe88
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p.7 #14 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Trying to catch up with you lot on this thread..

sebboh wrote:
it seems there are plenty of people who like both.


I agree. Different tools (or toys/gadgets) for different occasion.

rscheffler wrote:
It's OK, Joe is on the record from a recent post in the Leica thread of loving his M and not using the RX1 (or Ricoh GR) much. So clearly he likes the M much, much more!


I used my RX1 over the weekend, finally decided to go with the rubber band on the hot shoe/EVF and it finally didn't fall out, now its much better and I don't worry as much . AF has its use and the Zeiss 35mm lens and excellent sensor continues to impress. I've had my RX1 since Dec 2012 and as long as I can afford the depreciation , I won't be selling my RX1, except unless Sony comes up with a version with built in OVF/EVF and tilt/LCD, it will never end, we are consummate consumers..

douglasf13 wrote:
I sold my M9 and shoot the RX1, and I'm not the only one. If you can't take great photos with either, it isn't the camera's fault. They're both highly capable, and, while rangefinder shooting is great, it isn't the only option in the world.


Agreed!

aleksanderpolo wrote:
These have been mercifully forgotten:

http://www.kpraslowicz.com/2009/03/10/special-m6s/

Making toys is better than making these


If one thinks Leica or Hassy's limited edition cameras are over the top or vulgar, one should really blame it on Kodak. They were the ones who started it all and successfully sold various limited edition Brownie and other cameras since late 1890s!

millsart wrote:
Liking both is simply not allowed in the photographic community.




millsart wrote:
RX1 is a polarizing camera for sure....


But not as polarizing as a Leica....



Jul 01, 2013 at 02:20 PM
douglasf13
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p.7 #15 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Funny thing happened yesterday while out shooting with an artist/ painter friend of mine. I pull out my RX1 to shoot and he looks over and says "is that a Leica?". I said no, it's better....Not really but it was interesting to see how a non-photog and non-gearhead reacted to the RX1.


Oddly enough, I saw my uncle for the first time in about a year, yesterday, and he quickly glanced at my RX1 on a strap against my body (with the OVF on attached and leather half-case,) and asked me how I still liked my Fuji (X100.) This took me totally by surprise, because he is actually quite a camera collector, and, I mean, the cameras aren't even the same color. Of course, when he looked more closely, he realized it was a different camera, and he was a little embarrassed, but I was surprised that the two cameras would have enough of a similar vibe to even fool him at quick glance. I guess the OVF goes a long way in making the RX1 look a little old school.



Jul 01, 2013 at 06:51 PM
rscheffler
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p.7 #16 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


philip_pj wrote:
I second the pity the average person shows you when you 'only' have the RX1 to use, matter of fact I rely on this reaction.

Human subjects are much more comfortable as well than if you level a DSLR at them. Perhaps it's something to do with the evf, as they can see more of your head, whereas you disappear behind a DSLR. I really like the evf as it seems to assist with hand holding, and if you pretend the camera had a built-in evf, it would feel more awkward to hold.

Maybe if Sony makes another FL version, the evf
...Show more

The problem with DSLRs, especially the larger cameras and lenses, is that people tend to be much more suspicious of your intentions. As in, commercial or publishing intentions. I guess the reasoning is, why else would someone haul around so much gear? It must be to make money. If they're pointing it at me, then they're going to make money because of me... Anyway, I'm often asked 'who' the photos are for when using my Canon gear. It probably also has something to do with body language and how the photography is done. If you're fairly bold, trying various angles and taking more than 2-3 photos, the assumption seems to be you're 'professional' because the average snap shooter is usually timid and happy with one try or angle.

Not sure if this also happens with cameras like the Fuji X100, or Olympus OMD, but at least with the digital Leica M series, people usually say something because they're curious about the camera rather than my intentions. I guess it's the quirkiness of seeing an 'old' camera in use instead of a smartphone, etc. Other than the usual question of whether it uses film, many seem to be curious about how old it is and are surprised to learn it's digital. I've also had helpful individuals remind me I shouldn't shoot against the sun.



Jul 01, 2013 at 07:47 PM
millsart
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p.7 #17 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


I find sometimes the DSLR can be an advantage because it looks professional when you are in fact shooting professionally. For example, I'm the city photographer for where I live and cover various parades and such. when I've got 2 dslrs around my neck and walk down the parade route snapping pictures of children and families, no one objects. They think I'm with a paper and ask where they can see the photos.

If I walked up with a smaller camera, and started taking pics, during the same parade, I'd get different responses I'm sure.

Two big Nikons seem to suggest I'm a professional and people often come up asking me to shoot them.

It's always a doubled edged sword between a camera being discrete, or being so obvious that clearly you must have a good reason to be shooting a given subject



Jul 01, 2013 at 07:58 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.7 #18 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


rscheffler wrote:
I've also had helpful individuals remind me I shouldn't shoot against the sun.


Too funny!

I've found over the years that anytime one holds a camera up to the eye - as in, the camera is between your face and whatever is being shot - folks immediately either get nervous (if your pointing it at them) or think you're serious (doing something for $ and begin to question intention, which leads to all sorts of possible issues). But, whenever I have used either a Rollei TLR or chrome Hasselblad 500C with WLF in the past, people seem to either ask about the camera instead (that looks like a classic, my uncle had one of those, etc.) or seem to have no idea or interest in what is going on.




Jul 01, 2013 at 08:12 PM
douglasf13
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p.7 #19 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Too funny!

I've found over the years that anytime one holds a camera up to the eye - as in, the camera is between your face and whatever is being shot - folks immediately either get nervous (if your pointing it at them) or think you're serious (doing something for $ and begin to question intention, which leads to all sorts of possible issues). But, whenever I have used either a Rollei TLR or chrome Hasselblad 500C with WLF in the past, people seem to either ask about the camera instead (that looks like a classic, my uncle had one
...Show more

Last year, I saw a guy sitting on a park bench with the huge Fuji GX680 on his lap, framing a subject facing him on another park bench only 6 feet away, and the photographer literally spent minutes with his face pressed into the waist-level magnifier while aiming the camera at the completely unaware subject. I stood there watching, and I almost wanted to tell the subject that someone was taking a picture of him, because he had no idea that it was a camera on the guys lap right in from of him, and it was aimed right at him!



Jul 01, 2013 at 08:25 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.7 #20 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


douglasf13 wrote:
Last year, I saw a guy sitting on a park bench with the huge Fuji GX680 on his lap, framing a subject facing him on another park bench only 6 feet away, and the photographer literally spent minutes with his face pressed into the waist-level magnifier while aiming the camera at the completely unaware subject. I stood there watching, and I almost wanted to tell the subject that someone was taking a picture of him, because he had no idea that it was a camera on the guys lap right in from of him, and it was aimed right
...Show more

Hilarious! That GX680 is practically a mini view camera. It seems almost unbelievable how unaware some people are.



Jul 01, 2013 at 08:33 PM
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