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Archive 2013 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter
  
 
brett maxwell
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p.3 #1 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


I'm really glad it doesn't have a built in EVF in the corner like a NEX6 or NEX7, because now I'm not tempted to spend $3k+.


Jun 27, 2013 at 08:49 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #2 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


brett maxwell wrote:
I'm really glad it doesn't have a built in EVF in the corner like a NEX6 or NEX7, because now I'm not tempted to spend $3k+.


I'm glad my current RX1 doesn't have an EVF in the corner, because it would just get in the way when I'm using the OVF in the hotshoe.



Jun 27, 2013 at 09:08 PM
ricardovaste
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p.3 #3 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Doug, do you actually find the OVF that useful? Any technique? Shoot and hope?!


Jun 27, 2013 at 09:14 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #4 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


ricardovaste wrote:
Doug, do you actually find the OVF that useful? Any technique? Shoot and hope?!


I find the OVF really useful. In fact, I nearly always use it. Since there is no horizontal parallax, I don't find my AF rate to be any worse than with the X100/X100s. I delinked the AE from the shutter, and the camera's metering is very good. I trust it more than my M9's metering in manual mode.

Of course, I can always use the LCD if I have a situation that looks like it will be particularly tough in terms of AF or metering, but that is relatively rare. Once you learn to visualize where the center AF point would be in the OVF (I use a Voigtlander,) and then visualize it dropping slightly as the subject gets close, it's pretty easy. You can "feel" the AF lock in your hands, so an AF confirmation light isn't really even necessary. The RX1's isn't a speed demon, but it nearly always locks on.

I was surprised by all of this. I didn't expect to feel confident in the OVF, so I ordered an EVF, too, but I've since gotten rid of the EVF, because I never used it. I've certainly changed tunes with the whole thing, and I appreciate the modularity of the RX1's viewfinders.



Jun 27, 2013 at 09:22 PM
joe88
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p.3 #5 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


I actually prefer a built in EVF or OVF, less things to lose while out on a shoot. Some of you must be really gentle with your RX1 and EVF Mine still keep popping off unless I use the rubber band solution. If Sony wanted to target serious documentary or conflict photographers, a built in OVF would help them sell more cameras in my opinion.


Jun 27, 2013 at 09:29 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #6 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


FlyPenFly wrote:
Rumor:

RX2 has an M mount, $3000, no AA filters, curved photosites to eliminate purple fringing.


Don't I wish ... drool.




Jun 27, 2013 at 09:37 PM
ricardovaste
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p.3 #7 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


douglasf13 wrote:
I find the OVF really useful. In fact, I nearly always use it. Since there is no horizontal parallax, I don't find my AF rate to be any worse than with the X100/X100s. I delinked the AE from the shutter, and the camera's metering is very good. I trust it more than my M9's metering in manual mode.

Of course, I can always use the LCD if I have a situation that looks like it will be particularly tough in terms of AF or metering, but that is relatively rare. Once you learn to visualize where the center AF
...Show more

Intriguing. It doesn't seem like AF is a problem them with OVF. I'm sure there is probably even a 35mm finder that has a cross in the middle somewhere to visualise focus point? Either way, I'm not sure how you cope with metering. To me, if you had control over minimum shutter speed with auto-ISO it would make things easier. I just feel like not knowing what the shutter speed was would annoy me / hold me back too much. I can only speculate though.



Jun 27, 2013 at 09:40 PM
douglasf13
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p.3 #8 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


joe88 wrote:
I actually prefer a built in EVF or OVF, less things to lose while out on a shoot. Some of you must be really gentle with your RX1 and EVF Mine still keep popping off unless I use the rubber band solution. If Sony wanted to target serious documentary or conflict photographers, a built in OVF would help them sell more cameras in my opinion.


I guess I'd prefer a built-in OVF, although my OVF doesn't come of the camera, and I've stuck it on there pretty tightly with some camera leather under the shoe.

Actually, I take it back. I wouldn't want the horizontal parallax of an OVF off to the side. It would be really cool if Sony made a hotshoe OVF that had some electrical contacts to show basic AF and exposure info, although I'm not sure I'd want to spend the money, especially if it is the size of the current Zeiss OVF.



Jun 27, 2013 at 09:41 PM
millsart
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p.3 #9 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


joe88 wrote:
I actually prefer a built in EVF or OVF, less things to lose while out on a shoot. Some of you must be really gentle with your RX1 and EVF Mine still keep popping off unless I use the rubber band solution. If Sony wanted to target serious documentary or conflict photographers, a built in OVF would help them sell more cameras in my opinion.



No disrespect to conflict photographers as they provide some great images and are far braver that I am to do, but, as I group, I don't think they really represent that large of market.

I mean come on, for every 1 person who's doing serious documentary or conflict photographer there are probably several thousand well to do hobbyist using the camera is much more mundane venues.

Cameras, especially ones like the RX1, are toys for grown-ups for a large majority of buyers.






Jun 27, 2013 at 10:35 PM
sebboh
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p.3 #10 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


ricardovaste wrote:
Intriguing. It doesn't seem like AF is a problem them with OVF. I'm sure there is probably even a 35mm finder that has a cross in the middle somewhere to visualise focus point? Either way, I'm not sure how you cope with metering. To me, if you had control over minimum shutter speed with auto-ISO it would make things easier. I just feel like not knowing what the shutter speed was would annoy me / hold me back too much. I can only speculate though.


sony mirrorless camera metering is way more consistant than sony dslrs, so that would help. you can always just turn on auto iso in manual mode so you know your shutter speed and aperture and let the camera do the exposure.



Jun 27, 2013 at 10:49 PM
 

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douglasf13
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p.3 #11 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


sebboh wrote:
sony mirrorless camera metering is way more consistant than sony dslrs, so that would help. you can always just turn on auto iso in manual mode so you know your shutter speed and aperture and let the camera do the exposure.


Yeah, that's what I was going to say. With autoISO, the camera is almost always set at 1/80, so, if I know I need more than that, I just use autoISO with M mode and set the shutter speed.



Jun 27, 2013 at 10:55 PM
millsart
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p.3 #12 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


Other really cool thing about auto ISO and M mode is that the EC dial still works so you can set your min shutter speed manually and just have the camera ride the ISO as needed (which as clean as it is makes it pretty much a non issue) and then just use the EC to adjust as needed. Basically gives you the same thing as setting a min shutter speed that way


Jun 27, 2013 at 11:09 PM
joe88
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p.3 #13 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


millsart wrote:
Cameras, especially ones like the RX1, are toys for grown-ups for a large majority of buyers.


I agree, pro photogs are probably less than 10-20% of any camera released including DSLRs, medium format and especially large format cameras. Enjoy your toy. I guess your full frame DSLRs are also toys to you?



Jun 28, 2013 at 01:11 AM
millsart
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p.3 #14 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


joe88 wrote:
I agree, pro photogs are probably less than 10-20% of any camera released including DSLRs, medium format and especially large format cameras. Enjoy your toy. I guess your full frame DSLRs are also toys to you?


Nope, my full frame Nikon's are strictly work tools for me these days. I use them to earn a living but have zero interest carrying that gear around for pleasure shooting.

I get the indication you take offense to me calling the RX1 a "toy" ?

Fact is cameras like the Nikon D4 were purposely designed as a professional tool as well. That doesn't mean you have to just be a professional to own one, and I see a good number of hobbyist shooters on the sidelines of games every weekend with them (on account of a well paying nonphotographic day job) but the overall design of the camera is based around a specific criteria of durability etc.

Also while a camera like the RX1 could work quite well for some professional work (I actually was thinking of taking it along when I did an engagement photo session last night) it simply wasn't designed with the purpose of being a primary tool for a photo journalist, and I couldn't imagine many people buying one as a primary tool to earn a living with. At least I certainly couldn't earn a living with it as my only camera.

What I could use it as is my only camera when I'm not working.

In that role it is a "toy", just as much as a jet ski, or golf clubs, or electric guitar etc

If your jet ski isn't your means of transportation, and rather something you enjoy for leisure riding simply for the fun of it, it would be by my definition at least, a toy. No ?

I still enjoy my toys as much as when I was a child, only now they tend to cost a lot more




Jun 28, 2013 at 01:35 AM
douglasf13
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p.3 #15 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


FWIW, I believe there is a Magnum photographer using the RX1. I can see it being used in a professional or fine art setting by a photographer who already shoots something like a Leica with a prime or two, but it obviously wouldn't replace a D4, for those that prefer that type of equipment. Either way, like most cameras, the RX1 is likely purchased primarily by amateur enthusiasts.


Jun 28, 2013 at 01:42 AM
joe88
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p.3 #16 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


millsart wrote:
I get the indication you take offense to me calling the RX1 a "toy" ?

Fact is cameras like the Nikon D4 were purposely designed as a professional tool as well. That doesn't mean you have to just be a professional to own one, and I see a good number of hobbyist shooters on the sidelines of games every weekend with them (on account of a well paying nonphotographic day job) but the overall design of the camera is based around a specific criteria of durability etc.

I still enjoy my toys as much as when I was a child, only
...Show more

No, not offended at all, after all we all have toys, and like you said it gets more expensive the older we get.

I do disagree with you and Douglas that the RX1 was designed for hobbyist/ rich amateurs. I believe Sony designed it to showcase to others that they are a premium camera manufacturer and give us a camera that pro photographers would want to use not only for leisure but for paid work? Some would like the EVF as an optional accessory to keep the dimensions small (I don't disagree), and some would like a built in EVF or OVF to make it less fiddly. Maybe the market is too small for Sony to create another separate segment. I mean I am not a pro but even when I want to use my RX1 as a casual point and shoot camera, all it takes is a slight nudge on the EVF when I carry a younger child and the EVF fall off.



Jun 28, 2013 at 02:04 AM
joe88
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p.3 #17 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


douglasf13 wrote:
FWIW, I believe there is a Magnum photographer using the RX1. I can see it being used in a professional or fine art setting by a photographer who already shoots something like a Leica with a prime or two, but it obviously wouldn't replace a D4, for those that prefer that type of equipment. Either way, like most cameras, the RX1 is likely purchased primarily by amateur enthusiasts.


With just a few tweaks to the design of the RX1 (maybe a limited edition a la Leica ) such as adding a built in OVF/EVF, manual focus memory, weather sealing and possibly hard stops for manual focusing, I think Sony would be able to attract many more pro photographers to adopt the camera. Not as a replacement for a D4 but as a replacement for a film M or digital M at less than 1/3 the price?



Jun 28, 2013 at 02:09 AM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.3 #18 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


serhan_ wrote:
Only problem with Sony's modular approach is the viewfinder for nex-5n doesn't fit to the rx series. On the Olympus side, you can even use the viewfinder on Leica's.


The RX1R and RX100 share the same EVF.




Jun 28, 2013 at 02:19 AM
tobicus
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p.3 #19 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


I've got to agree with the hobby/rich amateur perspective on the RX1; I don't think any camera that doesn't come with a built in viewfinder is primarily targeted at people who shoot for money. If I had a wedding this Saturday and you gave me the choice between an x100s as a primary camera or an rx1, I'd go with the Fuji immediately simply for that reason.


Jun 28, 2013 at 03:23 AM
douglasf13
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p.3 #20 · Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Full Frame with no AA filter


joe88 wrote:
With just a few tweaks to the design of the RX1 (maybe a limited edition a la Leica ) such as adding a built in OVF/EVF, manual focus memory, weather sealing and possibly hard stops for manual focusing, I think Sony would be able to attract many more pro photographers to adopt the camera. Not as a replacement for a D4 but as a replacement for a film M or digital M at less than 1/3 the price?


Yeah, I already replaced my M9 with the RX1. Still, one of the main draws of the M cameras is using the rangefinder, so there will always be those that would prefer M over the RX1, or any other digital, for that matter.



Jun 28, 2013 at 04:46 AM
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