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D400 in 2014 or Bust
  
 
Gunzorro
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p.24 #1 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Ha-ha! Yeah, there's always hope, of some kind.

My little D50/28-85AF/SB24 kit should arrive today -- bought for the lens, but, who knows! Roll of film on the counter, staring at me.

(Will it get here before the 7D2/D400?)



Sep 30, 2013 at 09:13 PM
Kerry Pierce
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p.24 #2 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Andre Labonte wrote:
Well, Thom Hogan thinks as I do about the flange-to-sensor distance for DX and FX not changing as DX and FX go mirrorless. He also thinks as I do with regards to the lenses size ... it's all driven by the sensor size and (and some degree, flange size) not the flange to sensor distance. (basic optics folks)


Yes, but.... Why are DX lenses as big as FX lenses? Does the flange to sensor distance need to be different to produce smaller lenses?

Thom says " On the other hand, smaller sensor cameras produce smaller useful lens sets (notice I didn't write "equivalent lens sets")."

So, where is the savings in size and weight? I've read, many times, that the only thing they do to make a DX lens is change the components/lens groups at the bottom of the lens to produce the appropriate image circle. True?

Andre Labonte wrote:
Makes me wonder if the D400 will be mirrorless.


I hope not. I'm not ready for mirrorless until the technology is faster/better than an OVF and the battery consumption isn't OTT.

As to the question of which will come first, the 7dmkII or the d400, my guess is that Nikon will wait on the leader to show them the way.

Kerry



Sep 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM
Andre Labonte
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p.24 #3 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Kerry Pierce wrote:
Yes, but.... Why are DX lenses as big as FX lenses? Does the flange to sensor distance need to be different to produce smaller lenses?

Thom says " On the other hand, smaller sensor cameras produce smaller useful lens sets (notice I didn't write "equivalent lens sets")."

So, where is the savings in size and weight? I've read, many times, that the only thing they do to make a DX lens is change the components/lens groups at the bottom of the lens to produce the appropriate image circle. True?


***********************************
Hi Kerry,

DX lenses are generally smaller than their FX counter-parts if they share the same "range of FOV" when mounted on their respective formats. The issue is that there are not to many DX lenses outside the kit lenses and few share the same FOV with an FX equivalent. This is the big issue where Nikon has not supported DX.

For instance ... where is the 27-133 f/2.8 DX ? Surely that would be smaller and lighter than a 70-200 f/2.8 FX

Another for instance ... my 17-55 f/2.8 DX is the FOV equivalent of 25-83 f/2.8 on FX an is smaller than the 24-70 f/2.8 FX and honestly the 17-55 need not be a big as it is ... Tamron proved that.

One good one is to compare the 18-200 vs. the size of the 28-300

The second issue is the flange diameter. For FX, you can't get much smaller than the F-mount due to the needed size of the back element to cover FX. On DX, the flange could have been made much smaller ... but it was not due to the desire to share the legacy F-mount glass ... besides, the size savings due focal length shift for tele lenses and less dispersion needed for the rear elements of UWA lenses is the bigger of the two contributions to size

Cheers,
Andre


*****************************************


Andre Labonte wrote:
Makes me wonder if the D400 will be mirrorless.

I hope not. I'm not ready for mirrorless until the technology is faster/better than an OVF and the battery consumption isn't OTT.

As to the question of which will come first, the 7dmkII or the d400, my guess is that Nikon will wait on the leader to show them the way.

Kerry


*********************************************
Kerry,

... those are my two concerns as well ... once they improve the speed and accuracy of the EVF and manage good battery life, I'm good with a mirrorless ... otherwise give me an OVF .... maybe wait for EVF until the D500

Cheers,
Andre



Oct 01, 2013 at 12:34 AM
Elan II
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p.24 #4 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Since we're on our third title change, I'm going to play prophet and predict the rest of the titles.

D400 in November
D400 in December
D400 early next year
D400 in the spring
D400 this summer. For sure!!!
Will the D400 ever come?
Nikon can kiss my ass. I'm switching!
FS: All my Nikon gear
(Canon forum) Former Nikon user needs lens advice
(In a year) Canon 8D in August







Oct 01, 2013 at 01:57 AM
M635_Guy
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p.24 #5 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


I think we'll know for sure if Canon introduces a 7D MkII and Nikon fails to announce a D400 shortly after.

Product plans are squirrelly things, and Nikon is a notoriously conservative company. They'd probably do everyone a favor by signaling their intentions more clearly...



Oct 01, 2013 at 02:09 AM
EB-1
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p.24 #6 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


So now it is October?

EBH



Oct 01, 2013 at 02:11 AM
brewercm
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p.24 #7 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


M635_Guy wrote:
I think we'll know for sure if Canon introduces a 7D MkII and Nikon fails to announce a D400 shortly after.

Product plans are squirrelly things, and Nikon is a notoriously conservative company. They'd probably do everyone a favor by signaling their intentions more clearly...


I thought they have and said the D7100 was their new flagship DX format camera?



Oct 01, 2013 at 02:22 AM
LMT1972
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p.24 #8 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Looks like Nikon have transitioned from innovator to imitator mode

At this rate their next big release will probably be a film camera

Obviously they have fired those 'idiots' who gave us the D3 & D300




Oct 01, 2013 at 02:36 AM
M635_Guy
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p.24 #9 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


brewercm wrote:
I thought they have and said the D7100 was their new flagship DX format camera?


They've said different things in different regions, all of which sounded like marketing copy vs. a real strategy statement to me (as a long-time product manager in a tech company).

As it sits, the D7100 certainly is their flagship DX. That doesn't mean there can't be anything that supersedes it in the pipeline...



Oct 01, 2013 at 02:53 AM
hans98ko
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p.24 #10 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


They did specifically stated that the D7100 is the present DX flagship and told those who asked if it was the Pro D200/D300/s replacement that it is not, because the D200/D300/s was never classified as Pro models but rather Prosumer models just like the D700/D800/E. The only Pro DX series are the D1 and D2.

Will there be another temporary Prosumer DX model?
Probably Yes! But that will only happen when they can produce an EVF, LCD or OLED display that can have a fast refresh rate and can handle low light noise and color reproduction on their DX test bed before moving onto FX.

Yes, there is always hope for those who do not mind it being a mirrorless DX format and call by another name but D400. It maybe be call a D401, D410, D8000 or even M100 as for (Mirrorless 100 series).

And yes, you get to keep using all those legacy lenses without a mount or flange distance change to keep the tradition going.



Oct 01, 2013 at 04:06 AM
 

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Jorgen Udvang
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p.24 #11 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


I think the D400 will be a V3. Making large, bulky cameras doesn't make sense anymore.


Oct 01, 2013 at 08:26 AM
RRRoger
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p.24 #12 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Jorgen Udvang wrote:
I think the D400 will be a V3. Making large, bulky cameras doesn't make sense anymore.


It does to me.
Larger bodies have more room for controls and better balance for large lens.
This is one of the main reasons I prefer the D800 to the D600.
At a Sports Event or shooting "little birds in flight" there is no time to fiddle with menus.



Oct 01, 2013 at 04:16 PM
Andre Labonte
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p.24 #13 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


RRRoger wrote:
It does to me.
Larger bodies have more room for controls and better balance for large lens.
This is one of the main reasons I prefer the D800 to the D600.
At a Sports Event or shooting "little birds in flight" there is no time to fiddle with menus.



+10 I shoot sports all the time and 100% manual on everytying except AF. There is no time to dicker around with menus.



Oct 01, 2013 at 04:29 PM
Kerry Pierce
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p.24 #14 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Andre Labonte wrote:
***********************************
Hi Kerry,

DX lenses are generally smaller than their FX counter-parts if they share the same "range of FOV" when mounted on their respective formats. The issue is that there are not to many DX lenses outside the kit lenses and few share the same FOV with an FX equivalent. This is the big issue where Nikon has not supported DX.

For instance ... where is the 27-133 f/2.8 DX ? Surely that would be smaller and lighter than a 70-200 f/2.8 FX

Another for instance ... my 17-55 f/2.8 DX is the FOV equivalent of 25-83 f/2.8 on FX
...Show more

Okay, thanks for the info. I've never owned any of the DX lenses or superzooms that you mention, so I have no idea of the comparisons you're making. But, that's okay, I think I get the general idea.

As for mirrorless, I'm not opposed to it, but think that it's not yet ready for prime time. Maybe the d500, as you say, would be a good guess.

Kerry




Oct 01, 2013 at 10:47 PM
Kerry Pierce
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p.24 #15 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


LMT1972 wrote:
Looks like Nikon have transitioned from innovator to imitator mode

At this rate their next big release will probably be a film camera

Obviously they have fired those 'idiots' who gave us the D3 & D300



Yes, I agree completely. I would simply add the d700 to the d3 & d300 list that those "idiots" gave us.

Kerry



Oct 01, 2013 at 10:53 PM
M635_Guy
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p.24 #16 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


If the hypothetical D400 (or whatever the name would be) isn't essentially a D800 with a DX sensor, I'm not interested. Actually, I'd prefer the D300s handling (i.e. video not a primary focus of the controls) with a D7100 sensor or better. Anything that isn't that is pretty much a new platform. I'm specifically not interested in an EVF-based camera unless they solve a lot of things...

The fact that the D7100 was stated to be the current DX flagship is certainly true, but has absolutely no impact or indication on their future product plans or roadmap. I've talked to several Nikon marketing/product guys, and they are clearly well-coached on handling questions about future products. They do a great imitation of a clam.



Oct 01, 2013 at 10:55 PM
frankpetronio
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p.24 #17 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


It does seem like a no-brainer for Nikon to drop current mid-range sensors into the existing D300-D700 platforms... all the engineering is done, they'd be priced in between current offerings and offer improved AF and buffer performance over the marketing-crippled D7100 and D600. And crusty old farts like me appreciate their lack of video and other so-called "features".

However Nikon is so f-ing clueless that they can't even see the simplest solution that would sell a few tons of cameras.



Oct 02, 2013 at 12:46 AM
M Lucca
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p.24 #18 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Looks like Nikon hired a bunch of Blackberry execs.


Oct 02, 2013 at 03:43 AM
EB-1
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p.24 #19 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


LMT1972 wrote:
Looks like Nikon have transitioned from innovator to imitator mode

At this rate their next big release will probably be a film camera

Obviously they have fired those 'idiots' who gave us the D3 & D300



They are busy designing the Nikonos and other mini-sensored, viewfinderless systems.

EBH



Oct 02, 2013 at 04:51 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.24 #20 · D400 in 2014 or Bust


Andre Labonte wrote:
+10 I shoot sports all the time and 100% manual on everytying except AF. There is no time to dicker around with menus.


Since I got tired waiting for the D400, I've ordered an E-M1 and a GH3. I can assure you: There are no reasons to go into menus on those cameras more than with a D300 or any other Nikon DSLR. The Panasonic has 5 programmable Fn buttons, and I believe the Olympus has just as many. Should I need to go into a menu, it will appear in the viewfinder. I see no reason why Nikon wouldn't be able to make a similar solution with the V3. And remember: the smaller sensor size would negate the need for large heavy lenses too. A 200mm will be a 540mm eqv. on the V3, so why have a heavy body if there's no need for heavy lenses?

The only Nikon cameras that I keep after this switch are the D2Xs and the F6. The D2Xs because it's a lovely camera that I would gain little from selling (and in case i must have an optical viewfinder for something) and the F6 because it's the best SLR ever and currently my most used Nikon.



Oct 02, 2013 at 08:08 AM
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