Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2013 · This video explained so many things about light to me
  
 
Sunny Sra
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · This video explained so many things about light to me


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmZECtP3oM

Maybe we can have some stick threads here for newbies like me to understand stuff "visually" instead of having text after text to read.



Jun 24, 2013 at 01:01 AM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · This video explained so many things about light to me


tagrb for link


Jun 24, 2013 at 01:10 AM
galenapass
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · This video explained so many things about light to me


tag for link

Watched ~ 3 min. Nice video. Thanks!



Jun 24, 2013 at 01:21 AM
Photon
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · This video explained so many things about light to me


It's a good, concise video that explains a lot of the basics very clearly. And yeah, the ending is fun!
Sunny, I'm glad you made a nice comment at the site. So many of the people who post comments at youtube seem like blithering idiots.



Jun 24, 2013 at 04:02 AM
BrianO
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · This video explained so many things about light to me


galenapass wrote:
...Watched ~ 3 min.


You really MUST watch the last 30 seconds! Trust me.



Jun 24, 2013 at 06:08 AM
rico
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · This video explained so many things about light to me


My issue with the video was pervasive fill. A single light source should produce black shadow but, even for the split-lighting example, the shadow side of the face was well lit. Continuous lighting needed for the video medium and all those white surroundings is the explanation, but it sure undermined the demo. Here's an example of low fill by the Master himself. Note that Rembrandt isn't afraid of a hot spot on his forehead.




Jun 24, 2013 at 08:20 AM
Guari
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · This video explained so many things about light to me


tag for later..


Jun 24, 2013 at 08:46 AM
Wobble
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · This video explained so many things about light to me


Nice finish! Good explanations and real life setups explained well. Watch the ending, for sure.


Jun 24, 2013 at 12:53 PM
BenV
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · This video explained so many things about light to me


tagging for later


Jun 24, 2013 at 01:05 PM
Deezie
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · This video explained so many things about light to me


Pretty standard stuff, but very well demonstrated. Kudos!

BrianO - thanks for the heads-up. Those last few seconds are terrific!



Jun 24, 2013 at 02:29 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · This video explained so many things about light to me


It's a excellent video explaining the technique for creating different patterns and the ending is hilarious.

I learned portrait lighting apprenticing with Zucker not from the standpoint of using different techniques and patterns but looking at a face and determining which of those "classic" patterns would flatter it the most, given the shape of the face and constraints such as wanting a full face view for a business shot.

What makes a face attractive is subjective but when shown 100 of different faces in studies two traits emerge as common denominators: thinner, symmetrical faces are considered more attractive than wider lopsided ones. So when looking at what the combination of facial angle and lighting pattern do to the appearance of the face in terms of flattering it those are two good criteria.

A centered pattern is symmetrical. So is a full face pose. Combine a thin, perfectly symmetrical face with a centered pattern and not surprisingly the results are flattering because both criteria are met. But put a more average wider, more asymmetrical face in that same light and pose and they will make the width and asymmetry of the face very obvious.

Turning a face 45 to the camera is a way to hide asymmetry. I was taught to look at a face full, then from both 45 angles and both 90 profile angles to: 1) determine if it was symmetrical and thin, and 2) if not which of the other angles were more flattering. On a face that is wider on one side or the other or with one eye that opens more that the other it's a matter of looking at both oblique views through the lens at various distances then finding the direction looking right or left which creates the best balance when seen through the lens. Shooting distance affects the balance because distance creates and alters near/far size perspective.

Once it's determined which camera angle is most flattering that dictates the placement of the key light to the side in the position which will make the combination of angle and lighting look the slimmest and most symmetrical.

The brain focuses more attention on the highlighted side of the face. If you take a perfectly symmetrical face like the model's and light it from 45 to the side of the nose and 45 above the eye line the net result will seem lopsided because the brain focuses more attention on the highlighted side. The darker the shadows are via the control of the fill the more the viewer will focus on the highlighted side vs. what is hidden in the shadows.

What turning a face to the side 45 to the camera and putting the key light 45 further from the camera does is perfectly highlight just the front plane of a human face riveting the attention on the two areas that trigger the strongest emotional reaction: the body language expressed by the eyes and the mouth. That reaction tends to be stronger, as mentioned in the video, when there is a catchlight in the eyes -- both of them. A "short" lit oblique pose will trick the viewer into thinking a wide lopsided face is thinner and more symmetrical. It's an optical illusion Zucker understood and used frequently because most of his wedding clients weren't models with thin symmetrical faces. A lot of his shots used the same oblique - short strategy because it was the most flattering combination for the face in front of the camera which was his goal: making the client look better in the photo than what they saw full face in crossed lighting in front of the bathroom mirror.

The nose? It's a distraction from the more important eyes and nose. One of the things which makes a centered strategy so flattering is it creates no sideways shadow clues to reveal it. As seen in the video the more the shadow the nose does create is filled and lightened the less distracting it becomes.

The same is true with a sideways key light pattern. The more the nose shadow hangs out and the darker it is the more of a distraction from the eyes and mouth it becomes. That's one of the rationales for using a centered at chin level fill source. What is physically closest to the fill source, the nose, will wind up with the lightest shadows because the fill light intensity falls of exponentially from the direction of the fill source.

In the early examples he says there was no fill but in any studio that isn't a dark cave there will always be some degree of "spill fill" which lightens the shadows. Why is fill needed for photography? Because the camera can't handle the contrast of a single source, either the sun outdoors or a single key light indoors.

Determining the correct amount of fill is simply a matter of adding it until the desired amount of detail is seen in the darkest shadows furthest from the fill source at whatever set camera shutter/aperture/ISO are set at base on the psychological emotional reaction the lighting strategy. A photographer can either fiddle with the lights until the results feel right, or if more knowledgable start with a clear goal of how they want the audience to react, set the fill accordingly, then place and raise the key light until the highlights are just under clipping. Same end to the same results, different means.

Placement of fill controls the direction of the shadow gradients. A bigger key source like the scrim in front of the light in the video increases the family of angles of the key source "wrapping" the light around more, but the tone of the shadow on the parts of the face that larger wrapped source are will be a determined by the position of the fill.

As mentioned when centered the nose shadow will be lighter than the shadow on the ears. When fill is placed to the side closer to the ear than the side of the nose not reached by the "wrapping" key source the nose shadow will be darker and potentially more distracting. Centered fill reaches into the mouth and wrinkles on faces. Sideways fill is more likely to get shaded in those places. It's not a matter of one being right and the other wrong, just cause and effect of light placements and whether or not that cause and effect creates the desired emotional reaction when the audience sees the photo.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I saw a photographer with a new set of lights photograph the wife with a broad lit Rembrandt pattern with no fill trying to copy that self portrait or two lights crossed at 45 not realizing the goal of the exercise isn't to make the wife look like a gnarly old man. That's not the best strategy if you want the wife to let you buy more gear



Jun 24, 2013 at 02:40 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · This video explained so many things about light to me


rico wrote:
My issue with the video was pervasive fill. A single light source should produce black shadow but, even for the split-lighting example, the shadow side of the face was well lit. Continuous lighting needed for the video medium and all those white surroundings is the explanation, but it sure undermined the demo. Here's an example of low fill by the Master himself. Note that Rembrandt isn't afraid of a hot spot on his forehead.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Rembrant_Self-Portrait%2C_1660.jpg/501px-Rembrant_Self-Portrait%2C_1660.jpg


Or the tip of his nose and cheekbone ... both illustrating the specularity that naturally occurs @ convex surfaces the more your light is closer to a pls iaw AI=AR.




Jun 24, 2013 at 04:19 PM
corposant
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · This video explained so many things about light to me


The ending is definitely funny - also one of my biggest fears when working with talent!

Is it just me, or do you think the photographer and this guy could be related?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001601/?ref_=tt_cl_t4




Jun 24, 2013 at 11:01 PM
BrianO
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · This video explained so many things about light to me


RustyBug wrote:
...pls iaw AI=AR.


What the heck does "pls iaw" mean?

I know that "AI=AR" means angle of incidence equals angle of reflection, but the other I have no clue about.



Jun 25, 2013 at 12:04 AM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · This video explained so many things about light to me


Sorry ...

iaw = In Accordance With
pls = Point Light Source

I should also clarify @ "closer" meaning "more similar to" (NOT meaning shorter distance from/to) ... i.e. referring to "smaller" source.

Edited on Jun 25, 2013 at 01:03 PM · View previous versions



Jun 25, 2013 at 12:38 AM
hemendrac
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · This video explained so many things about light to me


Tag.


Jun 25, 2013 at 01:00 AM
Sunny Sra
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · This video explained so many things about light to me


cgardner wrote:
It's a excellent video explaining the technique for creating different patterns and the ending is hilarious.

I learned portrait lighting apprenticing with Zucker not from the standpoint of using different techniques and patterns but looking at a face and determining which of those "classic" patterns would flatter it the most, given the shape of the face and constraints such as wanting a full face view for a business shot.

What makes a face attractive is subjective but when shown 100 of different faces in studies two traits emerge as common denominators: thinner, symmetrical faces are considered more attractive than wider lopsided
...Show more

without pictures this post is....just text



Jun 25, 2013 at 01:08 AM
Marcus Watts
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · This video explained so many things about light to me


Thank you.


Jun 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM
markd61
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · This video explained so many things about light to me


rico wrote:
My issue with the video was pervasive fill. A single light source should produce black shadow but, even for the split-lighting example, the shadow side of the face was well lit. Continuous lighting needed for the video medium and all those white surroundings is the explanation, but it sure undermined the demo. Here's an example of low fill by the Master himself. Note that Rembrandt isn't afraid of a hot spot on his forehead.


Rembrandt did acknowledge the role of fill by painting detail on the shadow side of the portrait thus mimicking the fill afforded by the bouncing of light on the walls. The principles displayed were on point and if you want a darker shadow it is easily achieved. If they had let the shadows go black the average amateur looking at this video would conclude that the image was ugly and "why would I want to do that?"
By showing attractive applications of the principles he can get the viewer to actually try the lighting and learn for themselves.



Jun 25, 2013 at 05:02 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · This video explained so many things about light to me


Would not have recognized Jay in this video. We went to Art Center together and this is really just a very basic lighting 101 demo.

The most important lighting assignment, a precursor to this exercise, was an assignment where you had to photograph three blocks of white painted wood on a white background - a ball, a cube, and a cylinder - all in the same shot and have all surfaces separate and have three distinct tones in the cube as well as a highlight, shadow and core on the cylinder. First with hard light and then again with soft reflected light, then for good measure, finding balls, cubes and cylinders out in the real world, all photographed to illustrate those lighting principles. Then on to shooting mannequin heads with all the lighting types demonstrated here and finally on actual live people.

Going through all those building steps before the people helped you develop an understanding and respect for the light that was already ingrained in you before you started to deal with the added task of directing people. So what Jay P is demonstrating here (and I almost didn't recognize him but did remember his voice) is really a very very condensed version of what was drilled into us in school. Understanding the basics is always the best way to learning anything and once you understand those basic as it relates to lighting, wherever that light comes from, will help any photographer learn to tell his or her story more effectively.

The one thing I never ever heard at Art Center was any reference to lighting in terms of ratios of key to fill or in terms of angle to the face. Never once. We were taught to see the light and determine with our own sensibility whether it was right or not, whether it needed more or less fill or if you need to raise the light to hide a double chin.

We have it so easy today with instant feedback. All those assignments we did were on 4x5 Plus-X and Tri-X, printed on Kodak #2 paper and no Polaroids. You shot, developed, proofed and then, more often than not, re-shot until it was right. That's the part you can never see in a video liked this unless you've been through the same course.

The end, in my opinion is not funny. It's a cheap attempt to be funny, like an SNL skit that never made it past dress. It the thirty plus years of shooting people on sets, I've never seen that happen. I don't believe it.



Jun 26, 2013 at 06:57 AM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password