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Archive 2013 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?
  
 
Sjjindra
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Now that the 5DIII (or the 1DX) is F8 AF capable, has anyone used or compared it's real world use with a 1.4X extender on a 400mm lens (100-400 or 400 5.6) to the 7D bare on the same lens, primarily for nature (critters, birds, etc.) shots? The apparent focal lengths will be somewhat close, 560mm to 640mm or so.

Thanks




Jun 18, 2013 at 02:43 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


I've done a preliminary static test comparing my 100-400 at 400. I mounted the lens on a sturdy tripod and swapped my 5D3 + 1.4x2 for my 7D. I let the 5D3 auto ISO in Av mode with the lens set to 5.6 and 6.3 (before 1.4x). The target was a shaded stuffed animal about 30 feet away. The 5D3 chose ISO 800 and 1600 so I used ISO 400 and 800 on the 7D to get equivalent shutter speeds.

What I found was that the images were essentially equivalent after being worked up in Lightroom. Before workup, the 5D3 had better color and the target exposure was more accurate. The 1.4x noticeably reduced the contrast. The noise was slightly better on the 5D3 even with the one stop higher ISO. All of these differences were normalized by workup in Lightroom. The 5D3 front focused a bit compared to the 7D. I have not micro adjusted the AF on either body so I'll have to experiment a bit with this to confirm.

I was surprised by the under exposure of the 7D. In the target case, I had to set the exposure bias up one stop to make the histograms and apparent brightness of the images equivalent. This concerned me enough that I shot a bunch of random images around the yard with the 7D to see if it this under exposure was consistent. Generally the 7D exposed just fine and I hadn't noticed underexposure before. But the 7D was definitely not happy with the shaded target against dark foliage. This may be part of my displeasure with the 7D since this is often the scenario when shooting critters, though I haven't seen this much under exposure before. Usually I just have to bias between +/- 1/3 stop.

I'm not going to post the images because I don't have upload currently active and because of the focus difference. I think the images were equivalently sharp where the cameras chose to focus. I was surprised at how narrow the DOF was and will have to remember this when shooting real critters.

I have not tested AI focus yet so I can't compare dynamic use. I'll emphasize that this is one data point and I am very interested in what others are finding.



Jun 18, 2013 at 03:49 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Sjjindra wrote:
Now that the 5DIII (or the 1DX) is F8 AF capable, has anyone used or compared it's real world use with a 1.4X extender on a 400mm lens (100-400 or 400 5.6) to the 7D bare on the same lens, primarily for nature (critters, birds, etc.) shots? The apparent focal lengths will be somewhat close, 560mm to 640mm or so.

Thanks



Only used the 100-400L + 1.4x on a 5D III very very briefly and my initial impression is 7D kicks its arse all up and down the road on AF speed.

The apparent FL's will be closer than what you say. Looking at pixel density the 7D has 1.45x the reach of a 5D III when FL limited. The difference between 1.45 and 1.4 is small enough to be barely noticeable



Jun 18, 2013 at 11:12 PM
abqnmusa
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


I would not go back to the 7d and 400mm f5.6

5d iii with or without the 1.4x is giving me better images
More in focus shots, cleaner high iso and less grainy look than 7d
After cleaning noise in 7d I do not see any real resolution advantage, too much detail is lost
5d iii with 1.4x focus is fine even for BIF, focus with no TC is fantastic

Just my take, 5d iii works out better for me

I found small pixels if 7d needs fast lenses to avoid turning up iso.
300 f4 was more usable than 400mm f5.6 - F5.6 or f8 required too high an iso on 7d
300 f2.8 would have been better



Jun 18, 2013 at 11:23 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


You can check out this DPReview thread for some comparisons: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3502600

Of course in typical DPR style it has deteriorated to the point of being locked but there were some samples posted in it and even the RAW files to compare IQ. From looking at the samples in that thread, I'd say the IQ is identical as the 7D can stay a stop lower in ISO at the same SS.

Personally, I have started using the 1.4III on my 100-400 with the 5D3 and I prefer it to using the 100-400 on my 7D. You just don't have any AF points to select from on the 5D3 but I usually use the centre point with expansion anyways on either camera. I still just prefer the IQ from the 5D3 over the 7D even with the TC in play. I haven't compared them back to back enough to say how the AF speed compares.



Jun 18, 2013 at 11:38 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


I prefer 7D over 5D2 when reach limited in all cases in terms of IQ. Mostly the 7D over the 5D3 for IQ, but with dark subjects in dark shadows when other parts of scene are brighter and can't be blown out the 5D3 gives better IQ or if you shoot at insanely high ISO.

I've never tried f/8 AF, I'm sure it has to be much slower than regular 7D AF.

Using bare lenses the 5D3 AF is much more precise for one shot and for soccer/football than the 7D, but the 7D AF is at least as good for surfing and for birds on branch or ground (5D3 AI Servo can be a bit jumpy, maybe I still haven't found the best settings).



Jun 19, 2013 at 01:39 AM
kiddik
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


I did a semi-controlled test indoors with my 5D3, 7D and 400/5.6L and a 1.4x II for my fellow Icelandic photobuddies, so please excuse the Icelandic text, but here is a 1:1 crop of a 7D picture with enlarged-to-match files from the 5D3, with and without an extender. This test was primarily made to see differences in possible resolution - nothing else. Please don't look at brightness / colors as I fiddled a bit with them to make them look as similiar as possible, to not get in the way of the resolution comparison.

I made a link instead of an image reference as the image is too wide and I don't want to mess up the thread width:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80257/canon_400L/400mm_5D3_vs_7D.jpg

My real-world experience tells me that the only thing the 7D is good at compared to 5D3, is reach and AF speed (against a 1.4x on the 5D3 - a bare lens on 5D3 is at least equal or better than the 7D regarding AF speed). Given that there's enough light to keep the 7D at ISO100, the 5D3 wins everything else, and if it's not too bright outside, the 5D3 will win the 7D - even resolution wise, as bumping 7D's ISO will loose all of it's resolution advantages against 5D3.

I'm a long time 5D3 user who just recently added a 7D primarily to extend my 400/5.6L lens, and I find it painful to work with the files from the 7D, compared to what I'm use to with 5D3's files. The 7D will be sold soon



Jun 19, 2013 at 09:55 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Yeah, the 7D is rubbish, I hate how it turns out mushy crap




  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/1000s    320 ISO    +0.3 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/1000s    320 ISO    +0.3 EV  




Jun 19, 2013 at 12:38 PM
kiddik
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Hehe I didn't say rubbish, it's just compared to 5D3 in less than perfect lighting that I prefer 5D3's files, they have so much more headroom for recovery. I live in a country that's dark pretty much most of the time (actually Iceland's summer has a never setting sun, but nobody ever tells you it's cloudy (the dark, rainy type) most of the time). I know the 7D is capable of great quality, given enough light


Edited on Jun 19, 2013 at 01:03 PM · View previous versions



Jun 19, 2013 at 01:01 PM
 

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Bones74
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


This shots looks great but ISO 320 is hardly "bumping the ISO" and obviously good light like this will give a very good result on a 7D. Each to their own tolerances though I, for one was very happy to see the back of my 7D and despite losing "reach/pixel density" the 1D4 (as expected) kicked its ass up and down the road, dragged it through the bushes and gave it an atomic wedgey Even using the 5D3 and 70-200 + 2 x tc is preferable to using the 7D.. at all.


Jun 19, 2013 at 01:03 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Bones74 wrote:
This shots looks great but ISO 320 is hardly "bumping the ISO" and obviously good light like this will give a very good result on a 7D. Each to their own tolerances though I, for one was very happy to see the back of my 7D and despite losing "reach/pixel density" the 1D4 (as expected) kicked its ass up and down the road, dragged it through the bushes and gave it an atomic wedgey Even using the 5D3 and 70-200 + 2 x tc is preferable to using the 7D.. at all.


All I can say is that my 7D was better for reach limited birds in 90% of cases (100% compared to 5D2), no question and I say this as someone who sold the 7D and owns he 5D3 so I'm not saying to it to support current equipment.




Jun 19, 2013 at 09:06 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


skibum5 wrote:
All I can say is that my 7D was better for reach limited birds in 90% of cases (100% compared to 5D2), no question and I say this as someone who sold the 7D and owns he 5D3 so I'm not saying to it to support current equipment.


But Skibum, you said you never tried f8 AF. What are you comparing? The OP specifically asked about 5D3 + 1.4x vs 7D.

I posted a comparison here where I had taken a number of shots of a basilisk with both the 5D2 and the 7D and my 100-400. I chose the best 7D shot which, unfortunately was higher ISO than my highest 5D ISO. Still, my best shot of the set was from the 5D which also focused more reliably. This was not really a reach limited situation although I perhaps could have gotten a tighter framing of the lizard with a clean 7D shot.

I think there is little question that if you are not reach limited the 5D3 will work better. The question is, if you are reach limited how much are you giving up by using a 1.4x instead of switching to a 7D? For reach limited AI focus the 7D is probably the better tool and it weighs 3/4 lb less than the 5D3, 1.4x combo. For one-shot, I think they are at least equivalent and the 1.4x is certainly lighter to carry than a 7D as a 2nd body.



Jun 19, 2013 at 09:43 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Bones74 wrote:
This shots looks great but ISO 320 is hardly "bumping the ISO" and obviously good light like this will give a very good result on a 7D. Each to their own tolerances though I, for one was very happy to see the back of my 7D and despite losing "reach/pixel density" the 1D4 (as expected) kicked its ass up and down the road, dragged it through the bushes and gave it an atomic wedgey Even using the 5D3 and 70-200 + 2 x tc is preferable to using the 7D.. at all.


Pull the other one, it yodels.




Jun 19, 2013 at 10:24 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
But Skibum, you said you never tried f8 AF. What are you comparing? The OP specifically asked about 5D3 + 1.4x vs 7D.

I posted a comparison here where I had taken a number of shots of a basilisk with both the 5D2 and the 7D and my 100-400. I chose the best 7D shot which, unfortunately was higher ISO than my highest 5D ISO. Still, my best shot of the set was from the 5D which also focused more reliably. This was not really a reach limited situation although I perhaps could have gotten a tighter framing of the
...Show more

Bare 100-400L on 7D AF will be much better than 5D III +100-400L + 1.4, no ifs or buts. IQ is another matter, but I'd take a wager you'd get far more keepers with the 7D and given you can run 1 stop lower ISO, probably to ISO 1600 there'd be little in the IQ.



Jun 19, 2013 at 10:27 PM
lucas lumiere
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Bones74 wrote:
This shots looks great but ISO 320 is hardly "bumping the ISO" and obviously good light like this will give a very good result on a 7D. Each to their own tolerances though I, for one was very happy to see the back of my 7D and despite losing "reach/pixel density" the 1D4 (as expected) kicked its ass up and down the road, dragged it through the bushes and gave it an atomic wedgey Even using the 5D3 and 70-200 + 2 x tc is preferable to using the 7D.. at all.



It looks like you seem to think the 1D4 is a little bit better. But would you go so far as to say it's night and day?



Jun 19, 2013 at 10:57 PM
Invertalon
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


Not exactly the same but...

The 400 f/5.6L is quite a bit sharper with and without a TC versus the 400 on the T3i (7D sensor). Much more detail, better colors and less noise.




Jun 19, 2013 at 10:58 PM
BiggHarry
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Compare 5DIII 1.4X F8 Performance to 7D W 400mm?


I was very excited when the new FW for 5D III came out, but so far Iím disappointed with my results on 5D III with 400L f/5.6 + 1.4x III. On the other hand 7D + 400L f/5.6 rocks.
Iím not yet passing judgment on any of these combinations as Iím yet to MA my 400L f/5.6 + 1.4X III. There are many factors to a sharp photo and Iím yet to determine why I suck with 5D III and 400L+1.4x III



Jun 19, 2013 at 11:28 PM





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