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Archive 2013 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?
  
 
retrofocus
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
If I was doing landscape and couldn't afford the insane prices Hasseblad and Leica or Phase One ask, I'd get the Pentax 645D. It clearly outresolves the D800 and is under $10K and is very DSLR like for easy handling and has access to great glass.

I'd have been more than happy if the 5D III was even 27MP, but had better low ISO DR, and cleaner shadow noise.


I mostly agree with Paul's points mentioned above. I am not surprised about the find of the landscape shooters. But I don't see any reason why a high MP camera should cost a lot of money, much more than the current price of the 5D III for example. I specialized in infrared photography of landscapes and architecture which I do with one of my IR-converted 5D MkIIs - here the AA filter is removed and I can clearly see the increase in resolution even in infrared. I also agree that it is ridiculous from Nikon to charge the extra $$$ for having a sensor without AA filter in the D800E! So in the end it is just the sensor - we all know what we can get for approx. $2800 which is a 36 MP sensor in D800(E) cameras. Why should a 40-50 MP cost more than $3000 if you can live without a 1D body camera build?



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:12 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


retrofocus wrote:
Why should a 40-50 MP cost more than $3000 if you can live without a 1D body camera build?


I would say because the yields on those high MP sensors would be lower at least for a few years. You've got to make a defect free sensor also the lithography is probably more expensive and needs a pay off period. But in the longer term they should be cheaper and after all D800 is cheaper than D700 was when new, IIRC.



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:16 AM
retrofocus
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


BiggHarry wrote:
But saying that I'm very happy with my 5D III as a work horse for the event photography and I would not swap for anything (unless I was given 1Dx )


This is also what I find in my group of photographer friends - nearly everyone who bought or upgraded to the 5D III shoots events or weddings of some sort. I believe it is a nearly ideal camera for this environment. As mentioned often before, this is exactly the style of shooting I never felt interested in. I belong more to the old-fashioned Leica group in regard to shooting style I guess .



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:17 AM
retrofocus
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
I would say because the yields on those high MP sensors would be lower at least for a few years. You've got to make a defect free sensor also the lithography is probably more expensive and needs a pay off period. But in the longer term they should be cheaper and after all D800 is cheaper than D700 was when new, IIRC.


Do you mean the production of such sensors would be slower than the demand? Yes, this is possible - from what I hear from friends many would instantly try to get such camera. And I fully agree with your second sentence - prices drop for sensors in the long run anyway.



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:19 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


retrofocus wrote:
Do you mean the production of such sensors would be slower than the demand? Yes, this is possible - from what I hear from friends many would instantly try to get such camera. And I fully agree with your second sentence - prices drop for sensors in the long run anyway.


No I mean, that each wafer would probably yield less flawless sensors at least initially. When the 1Ds came out the yields were terrible explaining the high price. Less than 20 sensors per 200mm circular wafer. They can clearly make as many as they need, but they'll be wasting a lot of silicon until the process is refined.



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:23 AM
retrofocus
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
No I mean, that each wafer would probably yield less flawless sensors at least initially. When the 1Ds came out the yields were terrible explaining the high price. Less than 20 sensors per 200mm circular wafer. They can clearly make as many as they need, but they'll be wasting a lot of silicon until the process is refined.


Yes....but this is just a technological challenge of quality improvement. Matter of time - it will improve quickly I am sure.



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:28 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
No I mean, that each wafer would probably yield less flawless sensors at least initially. When the 1Ds came out the yields were terrible explaining the high price. Less than 20 sensors per 200mm circular wafer. They can clearly make as many as they need, but they'll be wasting a lot of silicon until the process is refined.


That has been true of every new phase of sensor development - it will be no more or less true of the next one. And the trend has been consistently toward lower costs as newer sensors have been released.



Jun 18, 2013 at 01:00 AM
AJSJones
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


retrofocus wrote:
I also agree that it is ridiculous from Nikon to charge the extra $$$ for having a sensor without AA filter in the D800E! So in the end it is just the sensor - we all know what we can get for approx. $2800 which is a 36 MP sensor in D800(E) cameras. Why should a 40-50 MP cost more than $3000 if you can live without a 1D body camera build?

The D800E has two AA filters but they cancel each other out!
Check out this diagram



Jun 18, 2013 at 02:18 AM
retrofocus
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


AJSJones wrote:
The D800E has two AA filters but they cancel each other out!
Check out this diagram


Interesting! Thanks for the link - I was unaware of this!



Jun 18, 2013 at 02:24 AM
 

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Sneakyracer
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Paul Gardner wrote:
Well I'm a Canon 1DSIII user with umpteen Canon lenses and I purchased a Nikon D800E with a 24mm 1.4 when it was first released. I must have been a lucky one from all the complaints about the D800 series as mine has been flawless. The Canon is my preferred camera ergonomically and will not be replaced until the +40MP Canons are released, but it is now regulated to shooting other than landscapes.
On my last trip to Yosemite I was talking to a couple of National Geographic
photographers who had run comparision tests of the D800E against the MF
...Show more

I am also a 1DS3 and 5D3 user and have rented the D800E (along w/ the Zeiss 15mm, the Nikon 14-24 and the 24 PC-E). I own a Arca Rm3Di with a IQ160 back and rodenstock lenses.

The Arca setup obliterates the Nikon for landscape use in good to somewhat low light. Its not only about the sensor and the sheer number of pixels but also the glass and the fact that one can use a LOT of movement with the lenses (up/down/left/right shifts + tilt) and still obtaining spectacular results. Edge to edge. Working with a tech camera is a true joy. It's not good at everything obviously but what it does well it does incredibly well. Also, if you stick to one brand of lenses, like the HR rodenstocks, the consistency in color/contrast and overall rendering from lens to lens is awesome. Only matched sets of cinema lenses achieve this.

Of course, whether that all matters to one person is a whole nother matter.

I fully agree that for most people 18-22mp is enough. I can use pretty much any camera I want and I am very happy with the Canon's for everything but the most critical landscape / architecture use. For that I have the Arca. Will a high MP 1 series body make me drop medium format? I don't know. But it would have at least made me think a LOT more the MF purchase thanks to the 24mm TS-E II L lens (and the 17mm) since that is probably the only lens made that begins to get close to tech camera quality and movement although it has limited aperture range at high quality (mainly f11).

Canon has been on the right track with their lenses to fully support (optically) a high resolution DSLR. But I understand that probably most of the DSLR customer base does not want or need more pixels than they have now.



Jun 18, 2013 at 02:30 AM
jctriguy
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


gdanmitchell wrote:
That has been true of every new phase of sensor development - it will be no more or less true of the next one. And the trend has been consistently toward lower costs as newer sensors have been released.


At the end of the day, the consumers can't sit around the campfire and decide what a new camera 'should' cost. Canon will decide what a camera costs based on the amount of waste in the sensor process, the R&D costs, what the market will bear, etc, etc. If Nikon has a camera that is roughly similar, it doesn't mean that Canon needs to match that price. Apple would be a great example of a company that has consistently charged double what the competition charges and profits continue to soar.



Jun 18, 2013 at 03:12 AM
retrofocus
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


jctriguy wrote:
At the end of the day, the consumers can't sit around the campfire and decide what a new camera 'should' cost. Canon will decide what a camera costs based on the amount of waste in the sensor process, the R&D costs, what the market will bear, etc, etc. If Nikon has a camera that is roughly similar, it doesn't mean that Canon needs to match that price. Apple would be a great example of a company that has consistently charged double what the competition charges and profits continue to soar.


We have seen what happened when the 5D MkIII was introduced for an outrageously high price in the beginning - sales simply didn't work out so well for Canon. From what a store manager in a big photo store recently told me, it is now selling a bit better since its price dropped a lot but still not a big sales hit by far. Overpriced gear is simply selling in a much smaller margin. And I believe that Canon as well as Nikon (and others) very well need to balance prices between each other otherwise people simply jump ship or are waiting for a severe drop in price. Talking about Apple, they had some very innovative and unique products for a while which they used to drive prices up. Now shares are dropping since people more and more switch to better Android phones and more compatible tablets - we are still waiting that Apple comes out with something new again. Same with Canon- if they are not quickly innovating and compete with better sensors out there, they will have a severe problem in their semi- and professional camera segment. Competition is not sleeping!



Jun 18, 2013 at 10:03 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


jctriguy wrote:
Apple would be a great example of a company that has consistently charged double what the competition charges and profits continue to soar.


Yes, but iFans aren't rational, they're part of a cult



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:25 PM
jcolwell
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes, but iFans aren't rational, they're part of a cult


Sort of like, Lfans. You know, red dot...



Jun 18, 2013 at 12:31 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes, but iFans aren't rational, they're part of a cult


Like Canon fans. Or Nikon fans. Or Windows fans. Or fans of any particular brand of car. Or...



Jun 18, 2013 at 04:01 PM
jctriguy
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


Retrofocus, as discussed in numerous previous threads, you should refrain from making you assumptions appear as facts. You have no idea how well any current cameras are selling, Canon or Nikon or any other brand. You n=1 assumptions have offen been countered. Canon recently passed 90 million lenses and they don't give the impression of a company that is scrambling to get product to market.

My assumption is that they will get a new sensor into a current or new camera line when they are ready. People will buy it, some will complain about the quality, some will complain about the price and others will buy it and take pictures.



Jun 18, 2013 at 04:48 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Rumor: New DSLR(s) with high MP sensors in sight?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Like Canon fans. Or Nikon fans. Or Windows fans. Or fans of any particular brand of car. Or...


No nothing at all like normal fans, no really!



Jun 18, 2013 at 10:23 PM
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