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Archive 2013 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery

  
 
michael49
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


A high percentage of my photography is done in the woods and thus involves plenty of foliage - I saw my first example of the "water color" effect of the X-trans sensor in a shot I took this past weekend while hiking in VT with the X-E1.....I've looked at many other images that I've taken with the X-E1, but this is the first time I've really noticed it.....

X-E1, 18-55, 18.8mm, f/8, ISO 200, shot RAW, PP in LR4....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Summer-13/i-CXCh35v/0/XL/DSCF4180-12-XL.jpg



Crop from the grass in the right edge/mid frame....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Summer-13/i-qKKKM9j/0/L/DSCF4180-20-L.jpg



This is not an image I would normally print, but I'd be curious to print it to see if it would bother me; my suspicion is that it wouldn't.

Edited on Jun 11, 2013 at 07:33 PM · View previous versions



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:30 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Yeah, that's a pretty good example as to how it can show up in even web-sized pics, Michael. I'd probably use Aperture for that shot.


Jun 11, 2013 at 07:33 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


jcolwell wrote:
...and so does this complementary image from my EOS 6D with Olympus 21/3.5 at f/8.

douglasf13 wrote:
I don't agree. This obviously isn't a major example of smearing from the X-P1, but that first 6D shot looks better and doesn't have the smearing. The second example with the Zeiss just looks like regular lens smearing or softness. The X-trans example has that noticeable, painterly vibe.


Perhaps, but in both cases, I think the X-Pro 1 images provide better detail.

douglasf13 wrote:
This may be a good example as to how some people notice the issue and others don't.


OTOH, it may be a good example of what some people think matters a lot, and others don't.



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:37 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


millsart wrote:
...Naturally though my suggestion if one wants to pixel peep on foliage is to pick up a Sigma DP Merrill. Some rather nice deals these days and while its probably the least versatile camera on the market, for what now can be bought for less than the cost of many lenses just will out resolve darn near anything.


Next time that I do a long distance train journey in Asia (which will be my first time), I'll have three DP Merrills with me.



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:40 PM
michael49
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, that's a pretty good example as to how it can show up in even web-sized pics, Michael. I'd probably use Aperture for that shot.



It seems to vary a lot with the scene though. Here is a comparison I did tonight between the X-E1/18-55 vs the OM-D/14-42II (not a fair comparison I know but I wanted to look for water color effect)....both at ISO 200....

If anything the Oly looks more "water-color" to me in this comparison.

X-E1.....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Summer-13/i-ZWLqp4Z/0/XL/DSCF4197-12-XL.jpg

OM-D.....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Summer-13/i-vzF5VcP/0/XL/P6110003-13-XL.jpg


X-E1 crop....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Summer-13/i-BBpF5Vt/0/XL/DSCF4197-20-XL.jpg

OM-D crop....
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Summer-13/i-Pf8Q47t/0/XL/P6110003-20-XL.jpg



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:46 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


jcolwell wrote:
Perhaps, but in both cases, I think the X-Pro 1 images provide better detail.

OTOH, it may be a good example of what some people think matters a lot, and others don't.


I would say that, in this instance, it doesn't matter all that much to me. The problem is that, in other instances, it does matter to me, which is why I'm selling my camera.



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:49 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


michael49 wrote:
It seems to vary a lot with the scene though. Here is a comparison I did tonight between the X-E1/18-55 vs the OM-D/14-42II (not a fair comparison I know but I wanted to look for water color effect)....both at ISO 200....

If anything the Oly looks more "water-color" to me in this comparison.


I disagree. The "watercolor" issue doesn't mean soft. It's this weird, painterly effect that is there in that X-E1 shot. The camera has no AA filter, so it seems that we end up with a sharp image in terms of luminance, but we get this weird chroma smoothing look, sometimes. It's kinda like sharp edges of leaves with a smooth center that gives this kind of gloppy look or something. I've never seen anything quite like it, and it is hard to describe. You should try running that image through Aperture or Accuraw.

Edited on Jun 11, 2013 at 07:56 PM · View previous versions



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:51 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


jcolwell wrote:
...and so does this complementary image from my EOS 6D with Olympus 21/3.5 at f/8.

douglasf13 wrote:
I don't agree. This obviously isn't a major example of smearing from the X-P1, but that first 6D shot looks better and doesn't have the smearing. The second example with the Zeiss just looks like regular lens smearing or softness. The X-trans example has that noticeable, painterly vibe.

douglasf13 wrote:
This may be a good example as to how some people notice the issue and others don't.

jcolwell wrote:
Perhaps, but in both cases, I think the X-Pro 1 images provide better detail.
OTOH, it may be a good example of what some people think matters a lot, and others don't.

douglasf13 wrote:
I would say that, in this instance, it doesn't matter all that much to me. The problem is that, in other instances, it does matter to me, which is why I'm selling my camera.


Can't argue with that. You put your money where you think it counts. Me too.

[...trying to ignore those Merrills...]



Jun 11, 2013 at 07:54 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


A huge factor with the Xtrans watercolor effect, particularly with regard to irregular, organic shapes (such as foliage), is subject distance and lighting. The initial examples in this thread are relatively close to the camera with flat lighting and low contrast. Where conventional (interpolated color/ CFA) digital systems are stressed the most is in resolving fine, distant detail. That's usually where artifacts are going to show up and where one is most likely to encounter Xtrans issues.


Jun 12, 2013 at 06:51 AM
Kit Laughlin
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


The Merrills are amazing, resolution-wise, but do not handle over or under exposure well and have no EVFs... but have the best UI of any camera I have used, so far: simple, intuitive, fast—to use. Slow in most other ways, for me.


Jun 12, 2013 at 07:03 AM
cputeq
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Tariq Gibran wrote:
A huge factor with the Xtrans watercolor effect, particularly with regard to irregular, organic shapes (such as foliage), is subject distance and lighting. The initial examples in this thread are relatively close to the camera with flat lighting and low contrast. Where conventional (interpolated color/ CFA) digital systems are stressed the most is in resolving fine, distant detail. That's usually where artifacts are going to show up and where one is most likely to encounter Xtrans issues.


Maybe so, but we also need to remember we're only working with 16mp, so distant shrubbery detail may be something of a pipe dream.



Jun 12, 2013 at 07:09 AM
Spyro P.
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


I did a couple of A3 size prints again last week, I can't see anything
I'm good with that size, I'll leave bigger prints to Tariq and Andreas Gursky



Jun 12, 2013 at 07:12 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


cputeq wrote:
Maybe so, but we also need to remember we're only working with 16mp, so distant shrubbery detail may be something of a pipe dream.


I usually test at around 50 yards, so not extreme distances. in that testing (against other APS 16MP systems) with a good lens, Xtrans is noticeably worse than conventional bayer based cameras with regard to distracting artifacts in fine detail.



Jun 12, 2013 at 07:28 AM
millsart
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Kit Laughlin wrote:
The Merrills are amazing, resolution-wise, but do not handle over or under exposure well and have no EVFs... but have the best UI of any camera I have used, so far: simple, intuitive, fast—to use. Slow in most other ways, for me.



Are you shooting raw with them ? I find the ability to pull back details from over exposure simply amazing with the Merrills. The X3 fill light works exceptionally well too for bringing up the shadows.

Agree on the UI, its very basic but that is kind of the beauty, not a ton of menu's and options, just quick and simple means of setting common functions such as ISO, af/mf, drive mode, really all you need about 90% of the time.

I especially like how the 4 way on the back is set up with right/left for exp comp, and then you can switch af/mf on the fly too with it. Later function is especially nice for doing a stitched pano since I can quickly focus, flip to manual, and shoot a couple of stitched frames (til the 7 shot buffer is full of course)



Jun 12, 2013 at 08:23 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


With the issue seemingly prone toward shrubbery ... is the 6x6 matrix @ 20 green vs. 16 non-green creating "too much green energy" that "blooms" that one might look at dialing back on the green channel or shooting with a slight underexpose strategy when shooting foliage?


Jun 12, 2013 at 11:40 AM
cputeq
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


RustyBug wrote:
With the issue seemingly prone toward shrubbery ... is the 6x6 matrix @ 20 green vs. 16 non-green creating "too much green energy" that "blooms" that one might look at dialing back on the green channel or shooting with a slight underexpose strategy when shooting foliage?


Here is a pretty good, older post on the subject.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/fuji-x-pro1/discuss/72157631913173508/



Jun 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM
theophilus
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Couldn't this be a Fuji issue (rather than X-Trans) since the original X100 would show the same watercolor effect?


Jun 12, 2013 at 12:53 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


theophilus wrote:
Couldn't this be a Fuji issue (rather than X-Trans) since the original X100 would show the same watercolor effect?


I never had the effect with my X100. At least I never saw it with my X100, and I see it with my X100s all the time. Are there examples of this in raw?



Jun 12, 2013 at 12:56 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


This happens in more than green shrubbery, particularly in LR. Here is a weird, painterly effect in some roof tiles that I posted previously:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8255/8675091603_f5c23d9ce2_o.jpg



Jun 12, 2013 at 12:59 PM
mortyb
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Do you have another photo of how they look with trad. bayer? How on earth is this an issue in any practical application? Do the big prints look bad? Sincere questions.


Jun 12, 2013 at 01:02 PM
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