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Archive 2013 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery
  
 
jcolwell
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


I was doing some comparisons between my X-Pro 1 and XF lenses with my brand new EOS 6D and some well-known Alt lenses today, when I realized that many of the images contain shrubbery; a.k.a. foliage!

Everybody knows that X-Trans can't do foliage.

Anyway, here's some results from the X-Pro 1 with my brand new XF 14mm f/2.8 R and also with my XF 35/1.4 R. I won't bother showing results from the XF 18/2...

Camera on tripod, two-second timer, f/8, ISO 800, best one of three images selected for each lens, manual focus with defocus/refocus between images. All 100% crops for each lens are from the same RAW (.RAF) file (not best corner from one, best centre from another, etc.). RAW files converted using the most recent Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) v 8.1, light processing in PS CS6 (USM 60/0.5/0, vibrance 20, brightness 10, contrast 20, sat -10). The original conversions were all kind of too green - maybe something I have set in camera affected the RAW conversion. Who knows, maybe Fuji is talking with Adobe.

Anyhoo, here's a set of four 100% crops from the X-Pro 1 + XF 14/2.8 R at f/8 (I like this lens).























Jun 11, 2013 at 09:34 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Here's a similar set of four 100% crops from the X-Pro 1 + XF 35/1.4 R at f/8 (I like this lens, too).






















Jun 11, 2013 at 09:35 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


P.S. here's a brief overview of my XF vs. Alts comparison

i) XF 14/2.8 spanks Oly 21/3.5 (and it's a sharp Oly, best of four that I've owned)
ii) CZ 28/2.8 spanks XF 18/2 (no surprise, but I thought I should try)
iii) XF 35/1.4 slightly surpasses CZ 35-70/3.4, at about 50mm

I tested both f/2.8 (or f/3.4 ~ f/3.5) and f/8 - the results are pretty consistent.

I'll probably post detailed X-Pro 1 + XF vs. EOS 6D + Alt comparison images in the next day or two, but in the meantime, I have to generate some revenue (and eat a pizza).

Ciao!



Jun 11, 2013 at 09:35 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Why ISO 800?


Jun 11, 2013 at 10:24 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


FlyPenFly wrote:
Why ISO 800?


To keep the shutter speeds at about the same value as the 'wide open' shots that were done at ISO 200, in the same comparison series.



Jun 11, 2013 at 10:25 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


It would be interesting to run those raws through the older ACR to see how much has improved.


Jun 11, 2013 at 10:36 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


FlyPenFly wrote:
It would be interesting to run those raws through the older ACR to see how much has improved.


I can send you some. IOW, there's no way that I'm going to back out of my up-to-date apps.




Jun 11, 2013 at 10:40 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


X-trans doesn't really have a problem with shrubbery, per se. It seems to be more dependent on how fine the detail is. You'll find lots of issues in some foliage, and no issues in other examples of foliage. Similarly, some finely textured things, like bricks or shingles may show the issue, but not always. I'm sure theSuede could explain why, if he's around.


Jun 11, 2013 at 11:11 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


douglasf13 wrote:
X-trans doesn't really have a problem with shrubbery, per se. ....


I agree. Many respected FM contributors don't. What's up with that?

(hence, this thread)



Jun 11, 2013 at 11:18 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


jcolwell wrote:
I agree. Many respected FM contributors don't. What's up with that?

(hence, this thread)


Oh, don't get me wrong. It's still a common enough problem that I'm selling my X100s. It just doesn't show up in all images of foliage, just like it doesn't show up in only just foliage. I'd still much rather shoot a Bayer camera for just about everything, except maybe low light.

I made some comparisons between LR4 and Aperture, and, even just at full screen size on my 23" monitor, forum members thought they didn't see smearing in some areas with LR, until they compared the output with Aperture, where things look a lot crisper...but also have weird chroma issues and tiny little white dot-like artifacts that show up. Both converters are a trade off.



Jun 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM
 

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mortyb
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Great examples, these look as good as I'd ever wish for.


Jun 11, 2013 at 11:30 PM
millsart
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


X-trans seems to handle detail in conifer's better than deciduous tree's with their broad flat leaves, who knew.

Looks pretty good overall, I have since sold my XPro but didn't really do much raw shooting with it due to the conversion issues, looks like it has gotten a good bit better though from what I was previously seeing with ACR and LR. Be nice if they could one day crank the conversion as the sensor tech otherwise is really good.

Naturally though my suggestion if one wants to pixel peep on foliage is to pick up a Sigma DP Merrill. Some rather nice deals these days and while its probably the least versatile camera on the market, for what now can be bought for less than the cost of many lenses just will out resolve darn near anything.

My D800e does have more resolution through sheer force of pixel count, but its also very lens dependent and I only have Nikon glass for it anymore, as its really a work tool where Zeiss et al just prove useful and too much expense otherwise.

Crazy thing with the DP2m in particular is that the sharpness is the same in the corners as the center of the frame. Just pixel level fine detail anywhere you look, just unreal. In the corners it easily gives better IQ than my D800e honestly.

But anyways, that is all probably more for another thread, yet I can't pixel peep shurbbery w/o mentioning it




Jun 11, 2013 at 11:31 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


After looking some more, the crop from the 14mm's left edge (3rd pic down) does have a bit of that smeary look, and so does the 4th pic down from the 14mm.


Jun 11, 2013 at 11:33 PM
cputeq
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Avoid sharpening (completely) with LR if you want to avoid most XTrans strangeness. Nik sharpener works tons better, just sayin



Jun 11, 2013 at 11:56 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


I didn't say it is perfect.

douglasf13 wrote:
After looking some more, the crop from the 14mm's left edge (3rd pic down) does have a bit of that smeary look, ....


...and so does this complementary image from my EOS 6D with Olympus 21/3.5 at f/8.








Jun 12, 2013 at 12:05 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


douglasf13 wrote:
... and so does the 4th pic down from the 14mm.


...and so does this complementary image from a CZ 35-70/3.4 (Leitax) on EOS 6D.









Jun 12, 2013 at 12:06 AM
douglasf13
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


jcolwell wrote:
...and so does this complementary image from my EOS 6D with Olympus 21/3.5 at f/8.


I don't agree. This obviously isn't a major example of smearing from the X-P1, but that first 6D shot looks better and doesn't have the smearing. The second example with the Zeiss just looks like regular lens smearing or softness. The X-trans example has that noticeable, painterly vibe.

This may be a good example as to how some people notice the issue and others don't.




Jun 12, 2013 at 12:09 AM
cputeq
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


I will say we (might) be seeing Adobe's weirdness in the RAW translation.

A perfect example of this is to take DPR's studio test scene. I think on the left part of the image, once you look at 100% of one of the money faces, you'll see some weirdness that isn't in a bayer sensor.

Anyway, I submit some samples for evaluation. I used LR4.4 to open the RAW, but used Nik sharpener in CS (both RAW presharpen and output sharpen) to spruce it up. Do note this is kit lens at f/9 and it's slightly oversharpened as if for printing.

Full scene

pathfull by J L Smith, on Flickr

Lower right

lowright by J L Smith, on Flickr

left foreground trees

left by J L Smith, on Flickr

Right near-foreground trees (about where plane of focus hit, as the overall was cropped up from the bottom)

farright by J L Smith, on Flickr



Jun 12, 2013 at 12:24 AM
cputeq
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


I'll be honest, I wish I had a D800 and Zeiss 21mm for pixel peeping goodness, but not so much that I want to pay for it all



Jun 12, 2013 at 12:26 AM
douglasf13
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · X-Pro 1 does shrubbery


Yeah, there's still some of that weirdness in those examples, cputeq. I found Aperture and Accuraw to be much better than LR for this type of scenery, although they introduced other artifacts, like strange purple/green CA-looking artifacts or zippering, but it depends on the scene. I think there is a lot of room for improvement from all of the raw converters for X-trans.


Jun 12, 2013 at 12:30 AM
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