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Archive 2013 · D4 VS D700 color
  
 
amachi
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p.1 #1 · D4 VS D700 color


I used to use two D700s for my wedding works, paired with 35mm and 85mm lenses. I usually shot with auto white balance and will correct it in lightroom. In lightroom, it's easy to correct this, I can just set the color balance right in one image and copy it to other images that were shot under similar lighting.

Now, recently I sold away one of my D700s and got a D4. Following the same practice, I use D4+35mm with D700+85mm for weddings, however, during post-processing in lightroom, I noticed that even after correcting the white balance to the same WB e.g. Both files from D4 and D700 are set to daylight in lightroom, and correcting other attributes to be the same too (picture control) , the results are different and I noticed that D4 images are slightly greenish. This issue has made my post-processing much slower than before because I can't simply copy paste the attributes anymore.

Anyone encountered such issue before? And if you did, how did you remedy this?



Jun 11, 2013 at 01:38 AM
Nikon_14
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p.1 #2 · D4 VS D700 color


I might be in the same situation at some point- interested in reading what others have to say...


Jun 11, 2013 at 01:53 AM
jasoncallen
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p.1 #3 · D4 VS D700 color


Different sensors read the scene differently. As I understand it, the D4/D800/D600 FX sensors all tend towards green.

When I shot freelance, I always used a pair of the same model camera for this reason. As long as they were both shooting RAW, copy/pasting processing in Lightroom made post a breeze after a 4000 image wedding!

You could figure out what color balance settings differ between your D700 and D4, save the difference as a preset, process everything to your primary camera's settings, then apply that difference preset to all of your secondary camera's shots as a batch operation. That would be my approach if I had to shoot across two different sensors at the same event.



Jun 11, 2013 at 01:59 AM
BigIronCruiser
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p.1 #4 · D4 VS D700 color


Every camera/sensor can be slightly different, so there could be variations (perhaps to a lesser extent) even if they were both D4's or D700's. Using a Colorchecker Passport to create camera profiles for each camera could help.


Jun 11, 2013 at 02:00 AM
mfletch
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p.1 #5 · D4 VS D700 color


BigIronCruiser wrote:
Every camera/sensor can be slightly different, so there could be variations (perhaps to a lesser extent) even if they were both D4's or D700's. Using a Colorchecker Passport to create camera profiles for each camera could help.



Beat me to it. Matching white balance helps, but different sensor simply reproduce each color a bit differently. The RAW profiles created with the colorchecker passport help to bring these differences much closer together.



Jun 11, 2013 at 02:30 AM
nikontypes
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p.1 #6 · D4 VS D700 color


Have you updated the firmware?


Jun 11, 2013 at 02:42 AM
ozpall
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p.1 #7 · D4 VS D700 color


match it the best you can and save it as a preset, that's what i do with my d7k and d700.



Jun 11, 2013 at 02:44 AM
Picture This!
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p.1 #8 · D4 VS D700 color


nikontypes wrote:
Have you updated the firmware?


Does the new firmware address the green cast issue. I have the same problem and moved my WB to M1 to offset the green.



Jun 11, 2013 at 03:29 AM
amachi
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p.1 #9 · D4 VS D700 color


BigIronCruiser wrote:
Every camera/sensor can be slightly different, so there could be variations (perhaps to a lesser extent) even if they were both D4's or D700's. Using a Colorchecker Passport to create camera profiles for each camera could help.


Camera profile = picture control, no?

Now that's an issue for me, because I always use picture control from VSCO on my images. The start of my workflow is usually to change the White Balance and Picture Control. So, for images under the same lights, for both D700 and D4 images, I will use the same WB e.g. Daylight and use the same Picture Control e.g. Fuji XXXX from VSCO. The problem here is that, even after setting it the same for both WB and Picture Control, the color still turns out differently between D700 and D4 images.





Jun 11, 2013 at 03:58 AM
amachi
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p.1 #10 · D4 VS D700 color


Picture This! wrote:
Does the new firmware address the green cast issue. I have the same problem and moved my WB to M1 to offset the green.


Are you shooting in JPEG or RAW? If RAW, I believe setting the offset in camera makes difference, no? Because in lightroom, for RAW images, you can tweak the WB as you like anyway.



Jun 11, 2013 at 04:00 AM
 

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amachi
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p.1 #11 · D4 VS D700 color


nikontypes wrote:
Have you updated the firmware?


Yes, I've updated my firmware to the latest.



Jun 11, 2013 at 04:01 AM
amachi
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p.1 #12 · D4 VS D700 color


jasoncallen wrote:
Different sensors read the scene differently. As I understand it, the D4/D800/D600 FX sensors all tend towards green.

When I shot freelance, I always used a pair of the same model camera for this reason. As long as they were both shooting RAW, copy/pasting processing in Lightroom made post a breeze after a 4000 image wedding!

You could figure out what color balance settings differ between your D700 and D4, save the difference as a preset, process everything to your primary camera's settings, then apply that difference preset to all of your secondary camera's shots as a batch operation. That would be
...Show more

If it is true that D4/D800/D600 FX sensors all tend towards green, then I'm screwed

Or I might need to replace my D700 with D600 (at least), something I prefer not to do.



Jun 11, 2013 at 04:02 AM
playerofwar
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p.1 #13 · D4 VS D700 color


It's just too easy to get rid of the green...
Even in camera you just go 2 nots to the right and one under to get perfect WB on my D800e. I do notice that I need to add some more red when I bump up the contrast and then pull back the shadows.
And in lighroom you can make a camera profile that can make D700 and D4 look almost the same.
I find D4 colors way better than the ones in the D700, certainly at higher iso's the color of the D4 shine where those of the D700 are washed.
But because I love the sensor in the D800E, I went with that one because it has the same awesome colors and higher dynamic range at lower iso's.



Jun 11, 2013 at 05:14 AM
amachi
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p.1 #14 · D4 VS D700 color


playerofwar wrote:
It's just too easy to get rid of the green...
Even in camera you just go 2 nots to the right and one under to get perfect WB on my D800e. I do notice that I need to add some more red when I bump up the contrast and then pull back the shadows.
And in lighroom you can make a camera profile that can make D700 and D4 look almost the same.
I find D4 colors way better than the ones in the D700, certainly at higher iso's the color of the D4 shine where those of the D700 are
...Show more

How do you create camera profile that can make D700 and D4 look almost the same? Sorry for such newbie question, I never had a need to explore this when I was using 2 D700s.



Jun 11, 2013 at 06:10 AM
riverman68
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p.1 #15 · D4 VS D700 color


I had exactly the same problem when I started using a D4 in combination with a D3s and D700. I also process using VSCO.The white balance on the D4 does err towards green but I found upping the magenta in camera went too far the other way, especially for skin tones.

I also found that my VSCO presets behaved differently on the D4 compared to the two other cameras and I struggled to get them to match. For now I've gone back to shooting the D3s and D700 as I don't have time in the middle of wedding season to try and match them with the D4. I'm sure you can make them all match with enough tweaking, but for me I concluded that I'd be better off shooting either D3s & D700 or D4 & D600/800.



Jun 11, 2013 at 09:53 AM
SAng
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p.1 #16 · D4 VS D700 color


Probably a naive question, but why not use separate WB settings in LR for all your D700 images vs. those from the D4? I would process them differently, after all they are different sensors with different responses. As I said I'm probably missing something, but I'm not seeing why one would expect to process images from these two disparate cameras using the exact same settings including WB.

If in LR you come up with optimized settings for the pictures from each body, that's still only two sets of attributes that you can then sync to your D700 and D4 images respectively... does that make sense?



Jun 11, 2013 at 02:35 PM
playerofwar
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p.1 #17 · D4 VS D700 color


amachi wrote:
How do you create camera profile that can make D700 and D4 look almost the same? Sorry for such newbie question, I never had a need to explore this when I was using 2 D700s.


There are some nice profiles online to get the D2x skintones on D4, but I think most are not free.
I find it really weird that you don't like the D4 files, I hear a LOT of good stuff about them, I think it's your D700 you have to tweak.

Some stuff from Flickr:

Jerry P. H. says:

I have a couple of "gigs" lined up for this weekend, so I thought it would be a good time to do a monitor calibration and create a profile for the D4 with the X-Rite Passport Color Checker.

When I made the ones for my D700's the difference was not drastic, but there were changes across pretty much the whole colour spectrum. Colours were more vibrant in general and the magenta flesh tones were controlled better..

For the D4, it seems very little is needed. Looking at them side by side at 100%, I see some increases in vibrance in the blue range, and the blacks are a bit darker. I am not seeing any visible changes in greens, yellows, reds, etc... and skin tones out of the camera are pretty much identical pre and post profile creation!

Seems Nikon really did their homework this time, I am pleasantly surprised.


Shepherd says:

I've only done one Color Checker profile for the D4, wanting to test out the D4 straight out of the box for a while. I got the increase in contrast with the blacks and also some improvements in the blues and reds. My greens/yellows really popped though with back lit grasses.

Again, wanting to get a feel for the camera straight out of the box, I've been processing with out the profile. I am loving the skin tones the camera gives naturally. I think I will continue taking the color checker shots in each setting in case I do hit a scene that I need the assistance, but will only go through the process of making a profile if I hit trouble in the processing.



Jerry P. H. says:

The skin tones are much improved, definitely better than anything before it. None of my subjects has that traditional Nikon magenta feel to the faces straight out of the box anymore that I had to work hard to fix.

I'll check out the profile's performance this weekend.





I would also suggest you to buy a colorchecker passport. Or you can just make a profile in lightroom yourself by doing a split view between the same D700 and D4 image, then you can really tweak it to get the same looks as the D700. But I think the problem is not the D4, but the D700, you are now comparing the D4 to what you are used to. Instead, you can also say that the D700 is to magenta compared to the D4. It's like when you just callibrated your trusted monitor, you also say it's too blue/orange and magenta/green. Your eyes have to get used to it.




Jun 11, 2013 at 02:54 PM
BigIronCruiser
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p.1 #18 · D4 VS D700 color


amachi wrote:
How do you create camera profile that can make D700 and D4 look almost the same? Sorry for such newbie question, I never had a need to explore this when I was using 2 D700s.


The ColorChecker Passport compares a reference target (the Passport) to your camera's RAW output. You will end up with at least one profile for each camera. The profile for your D700 would be used in post-processing to correct colors that were captured by your D700, and the process would be repeated for your D4. After applying the profiles, the color of a given object (as displayed in LR) should look the same when shot by two camera's sitting side-by-side. Keep in mind that the ColorChecker DOES NOT change anything in your camera, and the profiles only apply to RAW files.

After purchasing the Passport and installing their LR Plug-In, the process is fairly straightforward:

1) Take an image of the ColorChecker Passport with your D700
2) Import the image into LR, and use the ColorChecker Plug-In to create a D700 profile
3) Repeat for your D4
4) Restart Lightroom (Note: Profiles aren't available until LR is restarted)
5) Apply the camera-specific profiles to your images

Depending on how anal-retentive one happens to be, this process can be repeated for various combinations of camera-lights-lense-modifier.

Tutorials are available on the X-Rite website and Youtube.






Before (intentionally exaggerated) on left, after on right




Jun 11, 2013 at 02:54 PM
mfletch
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p.1 #19 · D4 VS D700 color


The Colorchecker profiles really do make this simple. It comes in handy when I'm shooting Nikon and my other shooter is using his Canon gear. With profiles for each camera, you can't see a difference between one camera to the next. I also have a couple older lenses that give a bit of a yellow tint, so I have profiles for when the lenses are mounted to cancel out the color cast.


Jun 12, 2013 at 04:21 AM
amachi
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p.1 #20 · D4 VS D700 color


Phew, I've asked around and turned out this is not happening to me only. That's a relief at least

Anyway, I will follow the advice from fellow photographers to sort the images by camera and edit accordingly, until I find out the best way to make all the files look similar. Maybe by purchasing another D4 :P *wishful thinking* haha..

Thanks much all



Jun 12, 2013 at 07:21 AM
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