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Archive 2013 · Lightroom 5 now available
  
 
ScottHM
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p.4 #1 · Lightroom 5 now available


Lars Johnsson wrote:
I think the new version is rather good. It's not a fantastic upgrade but the Radial Filter and
Advanced Healing Brush are nice. The new the F key to toggle between application and full-screen view is good. And it's also nice to get more lens profiles. And knowing that you can work with new cameras and lenses coming out in the future. There are a lot of other things that I haven't found or tried yet. And the upgrade is not that expensive either.


Yes, decided to play some more and about what I found. The advancement to the healing brush being able to use it as a brush is an improvement and selecting from other areas. I still wish they could make it so you could soften the selections a bit more, and just have a couple more brushes. It's probably not enough to make me not take most of that work to PS6 though. I did like working with the radial filter a bit. Being able to toggle between full screen and application is nice.
I'll still probably stick with 4 for now...but B&H owes me some credit I have to use by Dec. so we'll see
Sharona...if you haven't opened the box...exchange it...even for the few upgrades, it's worth having it if you're going from scratch.



Jun 11, 2013 at 10:29 PM
Sharona
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p.4 #2 · Lightroom 5 now available


Thanks, Scott and Lars. I may as well get the latest version. :-)


Jun 12, 2013 at 12:24 AM
morganb4
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p.4 #3 · Lightroom 5 now available


15Bit wrote:
No it hasn't. Most folk using illegal copies of the expensive adobe packages were never going to buy them anyway. There is no lost sale in these cases, no revenue lost to adobe. The licensing change comes about because adobe management don't like having a revenue stream that peaks at product release and then drops low until the next one. Also, they realise that many users are buying only every second or third release and that by going to a subscription model they can milk these customers for a lot more money.



+1



Jun 12, 2013 at 05:16 AM
Photon
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p.4 #4 · Lightroom 5 now available


Sharona, I think you'll be glad you did. The new features are valuable, and LR has been a very powerful program since version 3. Version 5 is fast on my MacBookPro Retina, no noticeable hesitation at all. All complicated software has a learning curve, but to me LR seems just as intuitive as anything out there.


Jun 12, 2013 at 05:20 AM
15Bit
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p.4 #5 · Lightroom 5 now available


^^ I would agree. I also have Capture One, and it is certainly no easier to learn than LR. Actually a little harder i would say.

If you want the capability of these packages i'm afraid you will need to spend some time learning how to use them. LR probably has the most learning resources available, so it is a good choice to start.



Jun 12, 2013 at 05:52 AM
UCSB
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p.4 #6 · Lightroom 5 now available


I've upgraded ... still trying out the new features.


Jun 12, 2013 at 09:26 AM
OntheRez
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p.4 #7 · Lightroom 5 now available


Sharona wrote:
Oh gee, thanks, WAYCOOL!


Sharona, as a deeply invested user of both Aperture and LR4 I'd have to say Aperture has a significantly better interface. The whole LR click different modules thing is odd (though I've gotten use to it.) Many of Aperture's tools work better that LR, IMHO. Both programs have things and or do things better than the other. My reason for going to LR after years of Aperture was because I finally decided that Apple was going to abandon yet another professional market. I'm afraid they are only interested in cell phones and pads these days.

As for your LR4 copy, I suspect B&H will swap it for you as long as it's unopened. I've found them to be pretty reasonable to deal with.

As for LR5, sitting on my hands for quite a while I suspect. There needs to be something compelling in this revision (faster would certainly help). We absolutely know they're going to pull LR into the protection racket i.e. "The Cloud." I still haven't decide how to respond to the whole cloud thing.

Bottom line: Aperture is quite good (IMO better than LR) and no matter which you select you have quite a learning curve as both are complex powerful programs. For those who complain about the difficulty in learning AP there's iPhoto which is about is simple and mindless as a photo program can get and honestly the few times I've helped someone with it, I've been surprised at what it can do.

Robert



Jun 12, 2013 at 05:36 PM
dhphoto
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p.4 #8 · Lightroom 5 now available


OntheRez wrote:
We absolutely know they're going to pull LR into the protection racket


How do you know this just after Adobe categorically said they wouldn't? Or do you just hate Adobe?




Jun 12, 2013 at 06:05 PM
butchM
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p.4 #9 · Lightroom 5 now available


dhphoto wrote:
How do you know this just after Adobe categorically said they wouldn't? Or do you just hate Adobe?



Yes, that is their policy today for Lr. However, their policy for perpetual licensing was also very definitive for future CS products prior to May 6, 2013. On that day, we learned how quickly Adobe can change their mind about certain policies.



Jun 12, 2013 at 06:28 PM
Sharona
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p.4 #10 · Lightroom 5 now available


Some good thoughts here. I'm thinking I may just return LR4, download a free trial of it, and see how I like it. Should have thought of that sooner, but of course, when you are buying something else and that little discount shows up....


Jun 12, 2013 at 09:13 PM
 

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OntheRez
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p.4 #11 · Lightroom 5 now available


dhphoto wrote:
How do you know this just after Adobe categorically said they wouldn't? Or do you just hate Adobe?



I don't have feelings about corporate overlords one way or the other. I simply try to figure out how to stay in business when products that I depend on for my living are abruptly changed, dropped, or dumbed down. Adobe is hardly alone. Both Microsoft and Apple have and probably will continue to do such things. All 3 corps are run by bean counters with their eye on the quarterly return and its effect on stock price. None of the companies are really focused on providing their customers with the best solution possible. Apple held out the longest (though lord knows they've p*ssed more than a few of us off with their idiot wild swings and terminations). With Jobs gone, they are now no different than any other Fortune 500.

On the other hand if you are so gullible as to believe that if Adobe is successful in pushing everyone into their protection racket that they won't try to expand the model then, well, I can get you a h*ll of a deal on a used bridge in Brooklyn. Adobe has already made it clear that the CC LR version will have updates and capacities that the boxed version doesn't/won't have. They literally are talking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. If you doubt this go back and look at the original announcements in particular check the interview with some VP on DPReview. What I've said above is nearly an exact quote. Adobe may well continue to have something labeled LR (LR Elements anyone?) which they will continue to sell along with their other element labeled programs. In other words it will be called LR something but won't have the full functionality.

Adobe has made it clear with big neon caps and bullhorns that they are pursuing a "steady revenue" approach to their products. They call it subscription. Anyone who thinks LR won't split between a consumer and therefore not as useful version and the "real" CC version is simply deluding themselves.

If you're a sporting man I'll bet a beer of your choice on this becoming obvious within the next year depending of course on how successful Adobe is in signing folks up.

Robert

Here is the exact quote from http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/08/Adobe-photoshop-cc

DPReview: "What assurances can our readers have that Lightroom will not become a subscription-only option?"

"[Bryan O'Neil Hughes] Lightroom is for photographers. And the Lightroom team is very aware of the reaction by photographers to Photoshop CC. We don't have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for CC members using Lightroom."



Jun 13, 2013 at 03:44 PM
dhphoto
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p.4 #12 · Lightroom 5 now available


OntheRez wrote:
I simply try to figure out how to stay in business when products that I depend on for my living are abruptly changed, dropped, or dumbed down.


If you were really in business then the business would just pay as a legitimate expense.

Try the insults if you like, but they really won't work on me.



Jun 13, 2013 at 03:46 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.4 #13 · Lightroom 5 now available


Sharona wrote:
Some good thoughts here. I'm thinking I may just return LR4, download a free trial of it, and see how I like it. Should have thought of that sooner, but of course, when you are buying something else and that little discount shows up....


"Upgrade policy for those that just purchased Lightroom 4
If you purchased Lightroom 4 very recently you may be eligible for a complimentary upgrade to Lightroom 5: http://www.adobe.com/go/pa"



Jun 13, 2013 at 04:11 PM
15Bit
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p.4 #14 · Lightroom 5 now available


dhphoto wrote:
If you were really in business then the business would just pay as a legitimate expense.


I've seen this statement a few times in recent weeks (i don't remember who from). I would venture that this is perhaps a little simplistic, as it assumes you can simply pass on all costs to your customers/clients. This isn't really true, as there comes a point where your clients won't pay more and then you start to lose business: "Legitimate expenses" do need to be kept under fairly tight control, and CC is in real terms a price increase which has to be passed on to clients as a price increase in turn.



Jun 13, 2013 at 04:34 PM
Paul Gardner
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p.4 #15 · Lightroom 5 now available


My comments to the people saying that the LR5 healing brush is good, is to use the brush supplied in PS6 or in Capture NX2 or even Elements 11 which is crippled to 8 bit only and compare with the disaster that the LR5 healing brush is.
Try to do any complex cleanup with LR5 and it fails miserably.
Actually the healing brush in Elements 11 appears identical to the brush in PS6 only crippled to 8 bits only.
DHPHOTO: Either you are a shill for Adobe or your edits are very simplistic.



Jun 13, 2013 at 04:37 PM
butchM
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p.4 #16 · Lightroom 5 now available


dhphoto wrote:
If you were really in business then the business would just pay as a legitimate expense.


Well, there are "legitimate expenses" ... and there are practical expenses.

Like 15bit references ... the CC licensing model has much more impact for small business owners than one might think. It has little to do with perceived short term "affordability" ... sure a nominal monthly fee may seem inconsequential on the surface ... but this move by Adobe does much more ... they want us to accept that what they are now offering is a "service" when it is clearly not a service in the truest sense ... while there are indeed some cloud services involved ... the apps, which are the backbone of the offer that we have used for decades are not services but tools ... it has long been a sound business practice not to rent the tools you use daily as you end up paying substantially more than if you bought them outright ... not to mention the CC model offers zero equity in the equation for the end user ... prior to CC, perpetual license holders could always sell their license at the end of use and retain at least some of their over all investment ... conversely, at the end of a CC subscription you are left empty handed ...

IMHO ... all these affordability and casual expense comments just don't add up over the long haul ... the situation is more involved if you really parse out the numbers over time. Anyone who wishes to believe that Adobe won't try and convert all their resident license holders into CC license tenants are kidding themselves. It may not happen in the near future ... but it will happen if they can make an extra buck or two in the process ... because it will end up being labeled as an affordable legitimate expense ...



Jun 13, 2013 at 04:54 PM
butchM
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p.4 #17 · Lightroom 5 now available


Paul Gardner wrote:
My comments to the people saying that the LR5 healing brush is good, is to use the brush supplied in PS6 or in Capture NX2 or even Elements 11 which is crippled to 8 bit only and compare with the disaster that the LR5 healing brush is.
Try to do any complex cleanup with LR5 and it fails miserably.
Actually the healing brush in Elements 11 appears identical to the brush in PS6 only crippled to 8 bits only.
DHPHOTO: Either you are a shill for Adobe or your edits are very simplistic.


Paul, I agree, while the healing brush in Lr5 is improved ... it has a long way to go before we can depend upon it for more than superficial retouching ... conversely ... the retouching brush in Aperture 3 is still far ahead of Lr ... at near Ps quality ...



Jun 13, 2013 at 04:58 PM
Sharona
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p.4 #18 · Lightroom 5 now available


Thanks for that upgrade info, Lars. After reading all of this, I wonder if I even want LR...!


Jun 13, 2013 at 05:37 PM
15Bit
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p.4 #19 · Lightroom 5 now available


Sharona wrote:
Thanks for that upgrade info, Lars. After reading all of this, I wonder if I even want LR...!


You need to start somewhere, and LR5 is as good a place as any to do so. The editing processes and tools have analogues in other packages, so the skills you develop will be transferable if you choose to switch later. And so long as you don't buy the CC version, it will continue to work as long as you want even if LR6 is CC only.



Jun 13, 2013 at 06:39 PM
OntheRez
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p.4 #20 · Lightroom 5 now available


butchM wrote:
Well, there are "legitimate expenses" ... and there are practical expenses.

Like 15bit references ... the CC licensing model has much more impact for small business owners than one might think. It has little to do with perceived short term "affordability" ... sure a nominal monthly fee may seem inconsequential on the surface ... but this move by Adobe does much more ... they want us to accept that what they are now offering is a "service" when it is clearly not a service in the truest sense ... while there are indeed some cloud services involved ... the apps, which
...Show more

Well Dhphoto I think you chose your avatar well (some sort of grumpy something in the shade) as you keep popping up in every thread with negative, snide, irrelevant comments not only directed at myself but at others who are actually trying to solve or at least discuss a problem. As both 15 bit and ButchM have explained - quite well I might add - being forced to "rent" one's tools at a price to be determined later with your rent providing utterly no equity in return is NOT a viable business practice. Check into a Biz 101 course if you doubt this fact. Also perhaps you have a market that will accept continually increasing prices for your work. (Or perhaps you aren't in business at all.) I can say with absolute certainty that the market I work in is price paniced to the point that they do senior pictures with cell phones and weddings with P&S. I suppose if I were a better photographer I could jet off to some place where the trendy and rich live, do a shoot, charge whatever, and come home with a fat profit in my pocket.

On the other hand I, and probably a lot of people in this forum, do good work and are embedded in communities that are experiencing various levels of economic distress. Mine has certainly been hammered hard.

If there is anyone in this discussion that believes the price of PS will remain at $19.95 after the first year or (let's give Adobe the benefit of the doubt) after the second year, I'd love to hear your reasoning for such belief. In the past I could budget towards upgrades and when they became compelling and I had the capital I'd pay the freight. Now we pay just to use what we once owned and please don't give me that tired tripe that we only had software licenses. There isn't a court in this land that would force a legitimate purchaser (who wasn't illegally selling their product) to give up his/her software simply because the vendor decided to "revoke" the license. It wouldn't happen in any country who's legal system evolved from the English - Anglo/Saxon traditions.

Now we own nothing except the right to keep paying. Adobe has made it crystal clear that the CC version of LR will diverge from the boxed edition and everyone knows the newer, better stuff will be in the CC version long before it shows up elsewhere assuming it ever does.

No, I can't infinitely raise prices to my customers simply to cover the fact that the maker of one of my key tools keeps raising the price for the privilege to use it for the next 30 days (or a year if I pay up front). Maybe your market can. If so, you're a very lucky guy and don't really need business sense or planning. Just buy whatever you want and charge the customer.

I'm ranting so I'll stop. Those who do the shoulder shrug, "It's just the cost of doing business" are either living off the fat of the photographic land or smoking far better stuff than is around here. Every day it gets harder to be a professional because every kid with a cell phone thinks he/she can take just as good of a picture as an experienced pro with thousands of dollars invested in gear to make it happen. I'm not complaining about their belief because there's nothing I can do to change their mind unless that actually see what I produce.

For Adobe whose very existence was built up on the back of photographer's sweat to pull this sort of stunt should be cause for everyone to examine just what sort of relationship they wish to have with a company that acts this way. Perhaps I'll keep on "renting" PS. It's hard to imagine transitioning to another product, not really because of cost but because of the literally 1,000s of hours invested in learning and adapting the product to my needs. I still don't know which road I'll take other than to note that my lesser used programs Id and Ai won't be joining any cloud. $600 a year to use one program 90% of the time and the other two on occasion? I suspect that Adobe will get a steadier revenue stream. I'll be very interested to see if it grows much.



Jun 14, 2013 at 12:34 AM
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