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Archive 2013 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality

  
 
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/olympus-epm2/olympus-epm2A.HTM

Just thought it was surprising that image processing seems to be making a big difference despite sharing the same sensor. From base ISO to high ISO, I was very surprised how much better the E-M5 photos looked.




Jun 09, 2013 at 10:59 AM
CalW
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


I realize that my reaction is cynical, but why would Olympus allow the slightly smaller, and less expensive cameras to match the E-M5, when it is continuing to sell quite well?


Jun 09, 2013 at 02:03 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


I think because as an E-M5 shooter, I would love to have a small backup body in my bag that takes up little weight and space but can get me the same results. I would never have just an PM2 but I would get a PM2 as a companion/backup camera.

My guess is, the electronics processing engine might not be as sophisticated in extracting the maximum from the sensor because of size and cost. Also IR may just have made a mistake or testing error.



Jun 09, 2013 at 02:18 PM
curious80
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


Actually as per DxoMark E-PM2 IQ is very slightly better than E-M5 at higher ISOs (though the difference is so small that it should not have any real world impact). Btw I browsed through the exposure section in the review where they talk about IQ and I couldn't find where they compare the IQ to E-M5.


Jun 09, 2013 at 02:31 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


Go to:

Olympus E-PM2 Image Quality Comparison

And look at the next to each other comparison.

I am aware of the DXO data, I'm just not sure if I should believe DXO or actual images. In the images, the superiority of the E-M5 is really, really clear.



Jun 09, 2013 at 02:44 PM
luminosity
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


It's the same sensor. Period.


Jun 09, 2013 at 02:58 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


luminosity wrote:
It's the same sensor. Period.



I don't doubt that. Of course it's the same sensor. In fact, read the actual original post.



Jun 09, 2013 at 03:11 PM
CalW
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


The PM-2 is not enough smaller than the E-M5, to me, to justify it as a "smaller alternative." After selling my Canon gear, with the relatively reasonable price of the E-M5, for the first time in 57 years of photography I can afford the luxury of owning two of the same current-technology cameras. So my silver E-M5 backup is... a black E_M5. For a truly alternative small and light camera, I slipped over the edge and bought a Sony RX-100. The jury is out - I haven't even had time to read the manual yet.


Jun 09, 2013 at 03:22 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


Also because a PM2 is about $400 so I'd rather spend the extra $500 on another lens.


Jun 09, 2013 at 03:35 PM
curious80
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


FlyPenFly wrote:
Go to:

Olympus E-PM2 Image Quality Comparison

And look at the next to each other comparison.

I am aware of the DXO data, I'm just not sure if I should believe DXO or actual images. In the images, the superiority of the E-M5 is really, really clear.


Looking at the comparison E-M5 seems crisper though they seem similar in terms of noise control. So this makes sense because DxoMark only looks at noise performance and not the detail.

Now these are JPEG images, so it could be that the default sharpening is higher on E-M5 or that the E-PM2 has higher default noise reduction smudging some details. Ot it could be that E-M5 has a lighter AA filter. Would be interesting to look at RAW comparison instead of JPEG to see if there is a real difference in detail or if it is just a matter of JPEG parameters.



Jun 09, 2013 at 04:02 PM
dalegaspi
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


EPM-2 has horrible, horrible ergonomics (and i thought EPL1 already set the bar really low for me): it's too small (and i have small hands), no grip...and oh-gawd-save-the-kittens-coma-inducing™ menu system.

and the EPM2's increased AF speed is negated by its AF inaccuracy compared with the EP2 and EPL1 that I own.

i can't remember the last time I hated a camera so much.



Jun 09, 2013 at 05:16 PM
cputeq
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


luminosity wrote:
It's the same sensor. Period.


That doesn't necessarily mean much, though. See Sony sensor performance in Sony cameras vs Nikon. Different factors could also be cause for the same company to extract different IQ from the same sensor.



Jun 09, 2013 at 08:53 PM
millsart
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


E-M5 should have a different sensor than the other two doesn't it ? I thought they were using the older tech, as well as the older IBIS in the EPM and EPL models, so I'd expect them to have a bit lesser IQ as they are quite a bit cheaper than the flagship EM-5

The newest, EP-5, should have the same sensor as the EM-5, along with the same 5 axis IBIS, plus apparently even faster AF.

I would think sooner or later we will see the EM-5/EP-5 tech come down to the cheaper EPL level product, probably around the time a EM-6 is announced, which should probably have a better sensor, the faster AF of the EP-5, and probably a higher rez EVF as well.

I've had Olympus m4/3 models from the EP-2 and they follow a pretty predictable upgrade routine



Jun 09, 2013 at 09:38 PM
mawz
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


millsart wrote:
E-M5 should have a different sensor than the other two doesn't it ? I thought they were using the older tech, as well as the older IBIS in the EPM and EPL models, so I'd expect them to have a bit lesser IQ as they are quite a bit cheaper than the flagship EM-5

The newest, EP-5, should have the same sensor as the EM-5, along with the same 5 axis IBIS, plus apparently even faster AF.

I would think sooner or later we will see the EM-5/EP-5 tech come down to the cheaper EPL level product, probably around the time a
...Show more

Same sensor as E-M5, Oly only uses 2 different sensors in their m43 bodies, the old 12MP sensor from Panasonic and the new 16MP sensor from Sony. The E-PM and E-PL bodies have the old IS system, possibly a different processing chain and possibly a different AA filter.

Frankly I suspect Oly went for a stronger AA filter on the consumer models, which would fully explain the differences seen.

As to the E-M6, I'm expecting the new EVF, the general updates (AF), the new shutter from the E-P5 and a tweaked sensor with on-sensor PDAF and proper AF support for 4/3rds lenses (not expecting fast, just usable). I don't expect much in IQ increases over the E-M5.



Jun 09, 2013 at 11:22 PM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


I kinda browsed through all the replies, but I dont think anyone mentioned the processing chip may be different. From shooting Canon, I know that even the same DiGic chip on different cameras offer different file outputs, or maybe say 12 vs 14 bit; pipeline, bit rate, AA filter (previously mentioned), etc. There's also the possibility that the newer camera may have slightly different programming so whatever software you're using is not optimized for the newer body yet.

Same chip =/= same IQ, granted they should be similar and I don't know HOW different the OP is seeing.



Jun 09, 2013 at 11:48 PM
ISO1600
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


I'm thinking it's probably just different jpg settings in camera. You can make the output of two different copies of the same camera look WILDLY different on the same jpg profile, just by messing with the settings.


Jun 10, 2013 at 07:24 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


I doubt IR is using different settings.

My guess here is that the sensor toppings are the key.

From what I read, the sensors themselves are not relatively a high factor in total cost. It's the quality of the sensor toppings that really change the difference in price. Consider the Sony A850 vs Nikon D3x - same sensor, vastly different toppings.

The E-M5 is probably using a higher quality topping.



Jun 10, 2013 at 08:02 AM
m_appeal
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


There is a comparometer on dpreview as well which allows you to compare the 2

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-e-pm2/6

I wouldn't rely on just imaging resource to make a decision about the comparative IQ of the 2 cameras to be honest



Jun 10, 2013 at 06:29 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


Strange, RAW files I had from E-PL5 seemed bit better than what I saw from E-M5. Bit different colors too (nicer).

Sometimes Im doubting real difference vs measured one. Cause when it comes to processing RAWs Im sometimes seeing quite different stuff than DxO or any other kind of measuring site would like me to believe to.

Im not saying those sites are wrong, just in certain cases their finds and mine are not the same.



Jun 10, 2013 at 06:48 PM
m_appeal
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · E-M5 better than E-PM2 and E-PL5 in Image Quality


I think with a little processing you can make them look very similar...


Jun 10, 2013 at 07:15 PM
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