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Archive 2013 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera...
  
 
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


jimmy462 wrote:
Well, it is important to know your budget and, for the sake of this thread being useful to you, sharing where your budget is with the rest of us would be, methinks, very helpful in eliciting responses and suggestions more suited to your needs. As it is, this thread has now become populated with a variety of budget solutions (my own included) in all sorts of price ranges many of which are likely to be of no use to you.

Now I bring this up not to be critical but, rather, to highlight an often overlooked and under-discussed point in all
...Show more

+1

It is all too common in photo forums to recommend "what is best for me" or "what I bought" or "X is the best" to posters, regardless of their specific situation and needs.

I know what works best for me, but I also know that this may or may not be the best for someone else. Often what the OP needs most is some help clarifying his/her thinking about the relationship between gear options and his/her photography... and such factors as cost.

Thanks for that reminder!

Dan



Jun 09, 2013 at 04:38 PM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Lasse Eriksson wrote:
+1



+2



Jun 09, 2013 at 06:26 PM
aladyforty
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Original poster has 70-200,100-400,18-55, and 10-22, the perfect setup for landscape and birding with a 7D. He is not cash happy and a new 7D can now be purchased online for under $900 (at least here in OZ) so I would would go 7D if I was him, at least if he is more into birding than landscapes. I still get torn between my 7D and 5DII when I dont know what I will be shooting


Jun 10, 2013 at 04:40 AM
jimmy462
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


gdanmitchell wrote:
3. Someone invested in the belief that only piece of gear B can do this work, faced with photographic evidence that things might quite that simple, looks for ways to denigrate the photographic work that was shared rather than understanding that perhaps things aren't quite as binary as he/she had thought.


Hi Dan,

I loved your comment about "binary thinking", it illustrates well an "all-too-common" rationale trap which deters us from realizing the possibilities which "can do" types of thinking can open up for us by clouding our horizons with "can't do" types of outlooks. I can't tell you how many times I got my boot stuck in that mud hole!

Anyhoo, on related matters...your example image "Snow Goose Maelstrom"...

<<

http://gdanmitchell.com/gallery/d/6197-3/SnowGooseMaelstrom20120219.jpg

>>


...well, my first reaction was, "Hell, I should just break my Sigmonster, right now, across my knee, and take my toys and go home." My second reaction was, "Dammit, Dan!...um, nice shot, fella." And my third reaction was, "I need to get out more." along with "...(muttering)...Maelstrom of Snow Gooses...geez...really, guy?...I'd be lucky to rustle up a small flock of pigeons..."

But, really, that one's a beaut!
Jimmy G



Jun 10, 2013 at 01:18 PM
Bsmooth
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Thanks for the info, now I am still torn with all this "new" information, as I may be able to just do with what I have, but thats been quite awhile now(how many of you are still using your 20D's?)
To me If a camera does birding,especially BIF, then it should easily shoot landscapes.
So since I have a 1DMkII which can do birds fairly well, and I have my 20D,which I gather can do landscapes OK, although I wonder If an upgrade to my 18-55IS(which was an upgrade from my plain 18-55) to a 15-85 might be a good choice.
Although no one hinted at my thoughts on better glass pertaining to FF cameras, which I didn't care for that 17-40 thoughts on.
So it looks as If I don't need to spend any money at all really, although I really would like an upgrade to that tired 1DMkII, and the 1DMKIII looks very nice indeed.
The other option is to wait and see what the 7D2 looks like,and see what it looks like.
So I'll work on my lousy technique, and lack of vision, which despite my best efforts really hasn't improved.
So thanks very much for saving me money !



Jun 10, 2013 at 02:02 PM
Gunzorro
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Bsmooth wrote:
Thanks for the info, now I am still torn with all this "new" information, as I may be able to just do with what I have, but thats been quite awhile now(how many of you are still using your 20D's?)
To me If a camera does birding,especially BIF, then it should easily shoot landscapes.
So since I have a 1DMkII which can do birds fairly well, and I have my 20D,which I gather can do landscapes OK, although I wonder If an upgrade to my 18-55IS(which was an upgrade from my plain 18-55) to a 15-85 might be a
...Show more

You are right to want to upgrade -- you are three generations back on Canon sensor/processors (Digic 2 vs. Digic 5+, and nearly 6). There's been a lot of improvement since your bodies were introduced. Granted, they will continue to take decent pictures until they go bust, but you aren't getting the full value for your efforts in your photography with the equipment you have.

Your 1D Mark II is superior to your 20D in imaging. Both are 8MP, but the 1D2 has larger pixels and larger sensor, so less noise and better detail The 20D is you weak link here, and could be disposed of. Going along with that are the EF-S lenses, which you might like to replace in the direction of EF lenses to fit all formats.

You have to distinctly different interests that really call for two distinct cameras. Birding needs a fast FPS and fast AF body = your 1D2 is good for that. Landscape and "whatever" will have best results with high MP FF body such as 5D2. 5D2 and 1D2 would be the minimum outfit for these subjects. The 1D2 can't do landscape well, and the 5D2 can't do motion well.

My advice is to sell the 20D and EF-S lenses and use the proceeds toward a 5D2 and one or more normal-to-wide-angle EF-S lenses.

Good luck deciding!

***********
PS -- If you were getting one camera to do both tasks, either the 5D3 or 1DX would be fine choices for action and fine detail.



Jun 10, 2013 at 02:19 PM
PetKal
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


1DMkII(N) or an "AF healthy" 1DMkIII would very good for birds and not bad for landscape either.


Jun 10, 2013 at 05:35 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


jimmy462 wrote:
Hi Dan,

I loved your comment about "binary thinking", it illustrates well an "all-too-common" rationale trap which deters us from realizing the possibilities which "can do" types of thinking can open up for us by clouding our horizons with "can't do" types of outlooks. I can't tell you how many times I got my boot stuck in that mud hole!

Anyhoo, on related matters...your example image "Snow Goose Maelstrom"...

...well, my first reaction was, "Hell, I should just break my Sigmonster, right now, across my knee, and take my toys and go home." My second reaction was, "Dammit, Dan!...um, nice shot, fella."
...Show more

Hey, thanks, Jimmy. That shot came about due to a bunch of influences and coincidences. Shoot enough geese and eventually the thrill of catching a single bird in flight starts to seem like it isn't the only possible thrill - though you never quite give it up. For me, the experience of snow geese and Ross's geese (which I often photograph here in California) is about much more than single birds. The sheer mass of birds is often astonishing, and the sound of the flocks invariably makes me smile and occasionally grin broadly or even laugh out loud every time I hear it again each season. And when a mass of thousands of these birds take to the sky at once - well, words can't quite describe it.

So here I was fortunate to encounter an absolutely huge flock in Washington's Skagit Valley, and it occurred to me that a way to make a photograph that somewhat reflected the wild chaos of the flock in low elevation flight might be to forego all of the sharp image stuff (which I also do know how to do) and instead slow down the shutter speed and, well, make a photo like this. I also have to confess that I was influenced by some beautiful low shutter speed that my friend Michael Frye has done - absolutely lovely and atmospheric stuff, often shot in beautiful light and frequently in fog. (For the equipment geeks out there, he shoots a full frame body and his longest lens is, ta da, a 70-200mm f/4!)

Anyway, I like this photograph a lot, and in many ways it says more about how I see these critters than many of the individual bird shots that I have, especially when seen in a good sized print. :-)

Take care,

Dan



Jun 11, 2013 at 03:52 AM
 

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Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Well I'd say if the 5D III and 1D IV are off the table, then 1D III or 7D are best options, although maybe a 6D is worth looking into too. Plenty of threads about 7D and 1D III to peruse. 7D garners a love-hate following, so I'd recommend 1D III and it's sensational value these days. I owned both and 1D III was my go to camera unless I was very FL limited and only had the 100-400L with me. IQ is good enough for landscape and portraits as well. Still try the 7D and if you can master the processing you'll find it very rewarding too.


Jun 11, 2013 at 04:14 AM
_SBS_
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Bsmooth wrote:
So I'll work on my lousy technique, and lack of vision, which despite my best efforts really hasn't improved.
So thanks very much for saving me money !


Would love to see some examples. I am sure you have improved although you may not see it I bet others do.

I too am my worse enemy when it comes to criticizing my own work (photography, art, and other) and find it helpful to see through the eyes of others, though I usually limit that to close friends and not the Interwebs

I would give it until the new 7D is announced before going for a new body. That way you can compare the 7D, 1d3 (maybe 1d4), and 7d2. And by then many of the used prices will have fallen even more. I cant believe one can pick up a 1d3 for a bit over 1K these days...

Just keep shooting and have fun!




Jun 11, 2013 at 10:17 PM
jimmy462
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Bsmooth wrote:
Thanks for the info, now I am still torn with all this "new" information, as I may be able to just do with what I have, but thats been quite awhile now(how many of you are still using your 20D's?)
To me If a camera does birding,especially BIF, then it should easily shoot landscapes.
So since I have a 1DMkII which can do birds fairly well, and I have my 20D,which I gather can do landscapes OK, although I wonder If an upgrade to my 18-55IS(which was an upgrade from my plain 18-55) to a 15-85 might be a
...Show more

Hi Bsmooth,

In my experience, self-criticism and self-evaluation can be valuable tools for ourselves if we can put those energies into being productive. Learning how to put these introspection's to use for ourselves is the key.

It took me more years, than I care to relate here, to recognize that my frustrations were merely a symptom (read: reaction) to my inabilities at being, what I thought, was "good enough" at whatever it was I was trying to accomplish. The key moment (and lesson) for me came many years ago when I was starting out as a utility lineman...back in the day they would team us junior guys with an experienced tech to learn the trade. Well, one day I'm beating myself up into a good sweat trying get old rusty hardware off a pole that was being, um, retired and my "senior guy" was just letting me have at it. This goes on for a good half hour, me beating the hell out of this situation, and him going about doing other things that needed doing, all the while watching me wear myself out. (Yeah, you old dogs know where this one is going!) Finally, after probably another fifteen minutes of this, I toss down the tools, frustrated that 60-year-old hardware had gotten the best of me, PO'ed that the "old guy" hadn't offered any help, and generally feeling sore and sweaty and thirsty for my ordeal. Wiping myself down with a wet rag and having some water I turn to the senior guy and say, "What a pain in the a**." And as I look up at him I can see he's smiling (as he always did) and he says, "Kid, the thing to remember about this job is that if your busting your a**, you're doing something wrong."

First lightbulb moment.

So I said to him, "Well, you could see what I was doing, why didn't you say something?" and (still smiling) he goes, "You looked like you had things covered. I figured if you needed my help you would have asked."

Second lightbulb moment.

As I cooled down he proceeded to finishing-off the stubborn hardware with ease and, all the while, sharing some of his techniques, working positions, tips, "When you find yourself busting your a**, just stop what you're doing, look at what's going on, and figure out another way to do it. Sometimes there's an easier way and sometimes there's not. But most of the time...(grunt)...(loosening the last bit of hardware)...there is."

Now, Danny's words (his real name) have stayed with me my entire life... ...showing up for work that day paid off in unexpected ways.

So, (getting back to photography) when I found myself frustrated at always getting inconsistent results when dealing with backlit subjects I knew it was time to stop what I was doing and seeing what it was that needed addressing. A bit of thinking, experimenting with some different settings, along with some trial and error, and I realized that, for the results I was looking for, I needed to spot meter my subject, lock in that exposure (and then adjust it up or down as I needed), then grab my focus and then re-frame my subject and...voila!...repeatable results!

As for your desires with your photography, you're the best one to know what it is you'd like to be doing. BIFs and landscapes, as you mentioned, are, IMHO, two amazing, life-long pursuits to be considering! And, you're in the catbird's seat...right now you can choose from several pro-level bodies, with vastly-improved AF systems from what you're currently using, that have fallen into your price range! Your technique and your vision will go as far as you wish to take them! Just try not to wear yourself down, and keep asking questions.

Anyhoo, I hope you don't mind the pep-talk, I wrote it more for me than you, actually...I needed to get over my frustrations about not being able, as of yet, to get an amazing shot of some geese.

Best of luck in your pursuits...
JG



Jun 12, 2013 at 02:41 AM
Bsmooth
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


I have to laugh guys,I've heard this before and it's so true ! Believe me I always can use help with my images. I got so discouraged a few months ago, I pretty much stopped my photography, well that and other life issues that came along.
This probably isn't the place, but I'm also a big movie fan, and saw this image as I was looking through images online, and wondered how they got this almost 3D effect.
Take a look and let me know what forum to putit in, if its in the wrong place;Its located here:

www.doctormacro.com/Images/Arthur,%20Jean/Annex/Annex%20-%20Arthur,%20Jean%20(Arizona)_01.jpg



Jun 12, 2013 at 01:56 PM
_SBS_
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Looks like extreme selective sharpening and smoothing to me (her hat brim is way too sharp and the background too blurred...thats what give it the 3d pop). So, photoshop, not in-camera. Nice lighting though




Jun 14, 2013 at 05:59 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Interesting web site of old promotional stills of actors and actresses. Other than clean-up of the image scans, I doubt there was much reprocessing of things like DOF. I think these are 1940s and 50s large format portraits done by photographers who knew what they were doing. Very educational to look through.


Jun 14, 2013 at 07:47 PM
dbehrens
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Best body for birds and landscapes ?(no not mine a camera body !)


Depending on what is more important (weight or AF performance), two bodies you may want to consider is the 5D II, which has the same "reach" as the 20D (and probably close to same AF performance of 20D) but with the FF viewfinder you have a major advantage over a crop viewfinder when shooting BIF.

Another great option (which I have used many times for birds) is the 1Ds MkII. Bullet proof body, great autofocus with the same "reach" as the 1D Mk3 and the advantage of a great FF viewfinder - although it slower in FPS.

Obviously both great landscape cameras and work great with your 70-200 and 100-400.

Dave



Jun 15, 2013 at 02:15 AM
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