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Archive 2013 · How do you respond to these?

  
 
ricardovaste
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · How do you respond to these?


I have mixed feelings.

a) I don't have much experience myself, so for me to try and share advise might be considered condescending.

b) despite the above, like everyone, I've made some mistakes so if I could help someone else avoid this perhaps that's only a good thing.

c) I can't personally offer practical experience, as I only really do weddings and that wouldn't be appropriate.

Recent example below.


Hello!

I'm looking to develop my skills in photography and am exploring opportunities to gain some experience. I wonder if there is anything I could help out with? I'm not looking for payment, just some practical experience - what ever that may be!

I'm a student, based in X-Place near you, and I've just recently finished an A levell in photography. I've also taken part in several workshops and some years ago I did a OU course.

I pick things up quickly, I'm very enthusiastic and always keen to learn more.

Hope to hear back from you soon, if there are any possibilities.
...Show more



Jun 04, 2013 at 04:25 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · How do you respond to these?


Wanna train your competition?


Jun 04, 2013 at 04:34 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · How do you respond to these?


D. Diggler wrote:
Wanna train your competition?


Cynical - I'm not sure it's that B&W is it? I certainly appreciated the advise people gave in her position. Perhaps the 'screw everyone' attitude to life will treat me well though?



Jun 04, 2013 at 04:42 PM
julieawhitlock
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · How do you respond to these?


I want to train my competition. I'd like there to be more well trained photographers in the field so we can all charge a decent amount.


Jun 04, 2013 at 05:02 PM
SGallant
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · How do you respond to these?


It could be mutually beneficial to you both. Even if they are "your competition" one day. I personally am friends and work for and with several of my so called competitors. We even exchange leads when already booked for a date or if the other is a better fit.

If I was in your shoes I would ask myself if I had a need for this person? Even if that just means passing on what little that I know in order for it to sink in more with me.

Would that person appropriately represent me and my brand? Last thing I would want to do is put it at risk.

I am sure I would ask more questions but you get the idea.

The world is round, what goes around comes around.



Jun 04, 2013 at 05:06 PM
thebeginning
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · How do you respond to these?


julieawhitlock wrote:
I want to train my competition. I'd like there to be more well trained photographers in the field so we can all charge a decent amount.




Great way to think about it.

I would much rather train someone and teach them proper pricing and value of their work than let more budding photographers charge $1000 for a full day of wedding photography*


*And I know those types of clients aren't my target, but there are still oblivious requests every once in a while from people with larger budgets that just don't understand why there is such a big gap in pricing between photographers.



Jun 04, 2013 at 05:08 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · How do you respond to these?


thebeginning wrote:
Great way to think about it.


Orrrr ...

The worse the quality of your competition's images, the more you can charge; you benefit by keeping them down.



Jun 04, 2013 at 05:59 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · How do you respond to these?


I generally say I'm sorry I already have an amazing assistant and don't need extra help.


Jun 04, 2013 at 07:25 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · How do you respond to these?


Interesting perspectives... To elaborate, I don't use assistants or seconds, so I couldn't offer any practical photography experience, but perhaps other things.


Jun 05, 2013 at 06:09 AM
Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · How do you respond to these?


I usually thank them for their interest and let them know that we don't have any openings for anything at the moment. I started an email list for our workshop which has been nice. Now even if we can't help them at the moment, I can at least direct them to sign up for the email list and be notified when we do get a workshop or something else together.


Jun 05, 2013 at 06:41 AM
maxwell1295
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · How do you respond to these?


D. Diggler wrote:
Wanna train your competition?


LMAO at "training your competition". Are you serious? I might understand that rationale if you're in a one stoplight town and competition is fierce, but if you're in a fairly large (or even medium size) metro area thinking about "competition" is waste of time and energy. Worry about your own stuff and 'F' the competition.

Heck, I could walk outside right now and trip over 10 wedding photographers before I even get to my car. There's no way in hell I'm going to give even 1 second of my time to worrying about them.



Jun 05, 2013 at 07:15 AM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · How do you respond to these?


maxwell1295 wrote:
LMAO at "training your competition". Are you serious? I might understand that rationale if you're in a one stoplight town and competition is fierce, but if you're in a fairly large (or even medium size) metro area thinking about "competition" is waste of time and energy. Worry about your own stuff and 'F' the competition.

Heck, I could walk outside right now and trip over 10 wedding photographers before I even get to my car. There's no way in hell I'm going to give even 1 second of my time to worrying about them.


Agreed. Would you give them any time for general advise if they came to you?



Jun 05, 2013 at 07:19 AM
scottam10
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · How do you respond to these?


To me, practical experience is either 2nd shooting or assisting with lights/reflectors etc. That way you get a second pair of hands and they get experience - everyone wins. Think about whether you can use this to help you. If you genuinely don't have a use for them, I agree that there's not much benefit in taking them on.


Jun 05, 2013 at 07:40 AM
maxwell1295
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · How do you respond to these?


ricardovaste wrote:
Agreed. Would you give them any time for general advise if they came to you?


I have given general advise. I try to be polite to everyone I come across, whether it be here in the forums or someone who asks for advise through e-mail. Obviously there are time constraints and you can't always give someone a thorough answer but I have no problem if I have the time to do and the person approaches me in a polite manner.



Jun 05, 2013 at 07:41 AM
Joseph Garcin
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · How do you respond to these?


D. Diggler wrote:
Orrrr ...

The worse the quality of your competition's images, the more you can charge; you benefit by keeping them down.


Doesn't work like that. And you know it.



Jun 05, 2013 at 07:55 AM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · How do you respond to these?


You know, mixed feelings about this. On one hand I understand and respect their desire to learn and get better. But on the other hand, they are in this for themselves, not for you. I've taken on a few of these "help me learn" people in the past and basically they use you as free training. You as the photographer have to move more slowly, show them how things work, and do a lot of stuff yourself as they "learn". This is a drag on you and your operation while out in the field. A cohesive, well experienced team is like a well-oiled machine. Taking on someone brand new and inexperienced slows all of this down.

Once they learn what they need to learn and are actually able to perform the job well, they're probably going to leave so they can go do it themselves. So now you're back to where you were before.

I've basically stopped taking these people on and stuck with my tried and true assistants and second shooters that I use over and over again. They're good, reliable, and I don't have to worry about them leaving in two months.



Jun 05, 2013 at 08:53 AM
Ian Ivey
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · How do you respond to these?


julieawhitlock wrote:
I want to train my competition. I'd like there to be more well trained photographers in the field so we can all charge a decent amount.


That's technically the opposite of how the laws of economics work. (Increase the supply of something, and the price will drop, all other things being equal.)

Nevertheless, I'm happy to share knowledge with new and veteran photographers. I love shooting with other folks in the DC area -- I usually learn something, and I usually can teach something, and we both win, plus I like meeting my peers.

I don't tend to think of it as training competition. I value the network of friends (such as this forum) more than I value trying (in vain) to dominate my local market.



Jun 05, 2013 at 11:37 AM
paparazzinick
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · How do you respond to these?


If we are looking for help then we will atleast interview them and look over their portfolio. If they look good then we might let them help on stuff. Like a magician, we wont give away our secrets but will will help on making stuff look like how I need it to be to be usable work.

I have no problem training someone that is and could be my competition. You never know when you will need to call on your competition to save your butt in a time of need.

Now if we don't have an opening, then we will atleast reply with a thank you and still ask to see the portfolio to maybe help them in anyway we can. I will also include my workshops and private session prices too. I just like helping people.
If their portfolio is good, then we keep their info on file for when we might need help.


Edited on Jun 05, 2013 at 12:00 PM · View previous versions



Jun 05, 2013 at 11:56 AM
swoop
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · How do you respond to these?


Tell them your rate for private instruction.

I've started teaching workshops and I find it rewarding, mildly in terms of the financials, but satisfying in the sense of sharing knowledge and getting others to understand. Workshops are also the one area where having a degree in photography is actually worth something.



Jun 05, 2013 at 11:57 AM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · How do you respond to these?


Ian Ivey wrote:
That's technically the opposite of how the laws of economics work. (Increase the supply of something, and the price will drop, all other things being equal.)
.


I don;t think it is a supply and demand situation , more of a chance to teach the noobs the value of things and to put a decent price tag on it. When someone is (out of ignorance, not bottom feeding) charging $1500 for a job that's worth $3500, the only winner is the client.



Jun 05, 2013 at 12:18 PM
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