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variable ND, what is this?
  
 
nugeny
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p.1 #1 · variable ND, what is this?


How does it work? variable ND? is it some kind of cir.PF?


May 29, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #2 · variable ND, what is this?


I am not positive but it may be 2 linear PL filters that cross each other and let less and less light thru. I have one and it works well until it gets to the really dark end and then an X pattern appears. Mine is pretty neutral but some have nasty color casts...



May 29, 2013 at 11:26 PM
nugeny
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p.1 #3 · variable ND, what is this?


Micky Bill wrote:
I am not positive but it may be 2 linear PL filters that cross each other and let less and less light thru. I have one and it works well until it gets to the really dark end and then an X pattern appears. Mine is pretty neutral but some have nasty color casts...



who is the maker/



May 30, 2013 at 01:18 AM
M635_Guy
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p.1 #4 · variable ND, what is this?


nugeny wrote:
who is the maker/


Pretty sure it is the Singh Ray:
http://singh-ray.com/varind.html

I have the Vario Duo Slim, and I really like it. I think Mickey pretty much has it down for how it works (though I'm guessing the "X" shows up because you're shooting a wide lens...).

I take the 85 f/1.8 out and shoot without having to worry about blowing things out. Grand fun.



May 30, 2013 at 01:26 AM
1MoreFord
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p.1 #5 · variable ND, what is this?


Singh Ray is not the only variable ND anymore. I know Tiffen makes one and I think there are others too.



May 30, 2013 at 03:02 AM
JohnC
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p.1 #6 · variable ND, what is this?


I have the Heliopan variable ND cost like 300 . When it works, it works well without the color shift problems I get with my Hitech big stopper. But in certain light and angle of view you definitely get weird unusable files with light and dark areas.


May 30, 2013 at 03:25 AM
dsjtecserv
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p.1 #7 · variable ND, what is this?


All variable ND suffer from the "X-problem" -- an interference pattern that shows as as dark X or diagonal areas. It increases as the degree of ND is dialed up; in my experience it becomes entirely unacceptable by five stops. It isn't caused by using a wide angle lens, it is just more apparent at lower ND with wide angle because of the wide field of view.

As others noted, all of these are fundamentally just crossed polarizers. You can do the same thing with a linear polarizer in front and either linear or circular in back and varying their rotational angle relative to each other. After experimenting with both crossed polarizers and commercial versions, and finding them useless for high ND, I gave up and just use a set of fixed NDs.

Dave



May 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM
parsons
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p.1 #8 · variable ND, what is this?


does google not return many answers? or too lazy??


May 30, 2013 at 05:00 PM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #9 · variable ND, what is this?


parsons wrote:
does google not return many answers? or too lazy??



Why do people take the time to make these kind of posts....


Anyhoo mine is Fader ND, I use it for video and for photos.



May 31, 2013 at 11:53 PM
M635_Guy
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p.1 #10 · variable ND, what is this?


I haven't seen the X-effect in my Singh-Ray, but I'm not sure I've used it beyond 5 stops...


Jun 02, 2013 at 12:15 AM
 

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SargentRay
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p.1 #11 · variable ND, what is this?


I'll use this post instead of starting another one since it's already on the subject i want to ask a question.
I needed to shoot some soccer players outside with a flash at a relatively wide aperture. Previous tests according to the distance the background was going to be, relative to the player indicated i had to shoot at f4. There was going to be a lot of mid day ambient light to kill and unfortunately myself as well as 3 other photographers were going to use Einsteins flash heads which are next to impossible to hyper sync. So long story short some of us already had ND filters, others like me had to get one. I googled and you tubed the matter and pretty much everybody agreed that the best variable nds were Tiffen closely followed by Genus. So off to the store i went and the Tiffen was only available on special order but they had the Genus in stock at over 200$ with tax. So i shot with it and although the auto focus had some trouble at times i managed to do my 120 + players and at first glance the results were ok. But after a closer inspection of my shots much to my dismay i noticed this tiny "chicken wire" pattern in the darker areas i.e. the dark background (overall images being softer too but i expected that to an extend). I don't know if this is the X problem everybody refers to, but my question is, is this normal, is it unavoidable with ND filters ? or should i return the filter and wait for a Tiffen ? Please have a look for yourselves and give me your much appreciated opinion. The filter was dialed down 2 to 3 stops only.

Thanks.

1-)

Close up


2-)

Close up


3-)

Close up



Jun 03, 2013 at 12:33 AM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #12 · variable ND, what is this?


The X effect that I have run into is a large pattern of X X X s not the fine pattern shown here.


Jun 03, 2013 at 05:07 PM
pburke
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p.1 #13 · variable ND, what is this?


The banding looks like sensor noise to me. Reminds me of D7100 test shots I've seen recently, usually most visible in the darks. If it was related to a filter, you'd see it in other areas, too.


Jun 03, 2013 at 05:26 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #14 · variable ND, what is this?


Micky Bill wrote:
The X effect that I have run into is a large pattern of X X X s not the fine pattern shown here.


Ok thanks Micky, that's one thing cleared out.



Jun 03, 2013 at 06:07 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #15 · variable ND, what is this?


pburke wrote:
The banding looks like sensor noise to me. Reminds me of D7100 test shots I've seen recently, usually most visible in the darks. If it was related to a filter, you'd see it in other areas, too.



Ok pburke now you're really mixing me up, i should have mentioned it before but these shots have been taken at 200 iso f4 1/250th sec. Eith a D3s. I really doubt it is due to any noise related issue, i've also never seen noise getting organized in a grid pattern like this. But you are right about only the dark areas seemingly being affected. That is puzzling, i thought the pattern was everywhere but just too light in shade to notice it in the mid and light areas. Hmmm...

My mind is pretty much made up at this point on returning this filter to the store and try out regular ND filters instead, it almost can't be worse!



Jun 03, 2013 at 06:13 PM
pburke
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p.1 #16 · variable ND, what is this?


SargentRay wrote:
Ok pburke now you're really mixing me up, i should have mentioned it before but these shots have been taken at 200 iso f4 1/250th sec. Eith a D3s. I really doubt it is due to any noise related issue, i've also never seen noise getting organized in a grid pattern like this. But you are right about only the dark areas seemingly being affected. That is puzzling, i thought the pattern was everywhere but just too light in shade to notice it in the mid and light areas. Hmmm...

My mind is pretty much made up at this point on
...Show more

I don't know about D3, but here's what I am talking about, and it looks very similar

D7100 shadows



Jun 03, 2013 at 07:24 PM
SargentRay
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p.1 #17 · variable ND, what is this?


pburke wrote:
I don't know about D3, but here's what I am talking about, and it looks very similar

D7100 shadows


Looks familiar indeed i have to admit, i'll make some more tests in the morning



Jun 04, 2013 at 03:55 AM
Batty_F
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p.1 #18 · variable ND, what is this?


I don't know how people use these variable neutral density filters effectively. I rented the 82mm Singh-Ray Vari ND recently and tried it out, was very disappointed. At wide angles, the filter gives nowhere near the 8 stops they claim (although in the longer description text they do warn of these problems), I didn't even get 4 stops of darkening on the wide end. Plus, the filter vignettes terribly at extreme wide angles.

Not only that but if you look closely at darkened images with the filter, they are not evenly darkened, some parts of the frame get more or less of the darkening effect.

So, I switched to the Lee filter system, but am still waiting for the 10-stop Big Stopper on backorder to try that out.



Jun 04, 2013 at 04:23 AM
SargentRay
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p.1 #19 · variable ND, what is this?


Batty_F wrote:
I don't know how people use these variable neutral density filters effectively. I rented the 82mm Singh-Ray Vari ND recently and tried it out, was very disappointed. At wide angles, the filter gives nowhere near the 8 stops they claim (although in the longer description text they do warn of these problems), I didn't even get 4 stops of darkening on the wide end. Plus, the filter vignettes terribly at extreme wide angles.

Not only that but if you look closely at darkened images with the filter, they are not evenly darkened, some parts of the frame get more or less
...Show more

No kidding Batty_F, after my little experience i'm starting to think i'll never get anything good out of these contraptions. It's a real shame my Genus doesn't perform better than that, especially at that price, because the way it's built it's very user friendly once you're on an actual shoot, well at least theoretically. I got this in the first place because it is impossible to hyper sync my Einstein flash heads because of their IGBT conception giving very short flash duration with virtually no tail part of the flash duration to work with for hyper syncing aside from a very short one a full output. Unless someone here can tell me otherwise and they have managed some level of effective hyper syncing with these heads with the Pocket Wizard Flex TT5 along with the Power Mc2 antennas on the heads.

For me right now all i need is the ability to stop down a few stops to be able to work at a wider aperture like f4 or so, but since i am planning on getting the 85mm f1,4 it would have been nice to go beyond that to 4 stops. The way i see it i paid over 200$ for a piece of dark glass that is probably worth 50$ at best, and when you think of it a 50$ filter placed in front of a 2000+$ lens is never a good idea.

This being said how's the Lee System performing for you so far ?



Jun 04, 2013 at 12:27 PM
pmiller228
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p.1 #20 · variable ND, what is this?


SargentRay wrote:
No kidding Batty_F, after my little experience i'm starting to think i'll never get anything good out of these contraptions. It's a real shame my Genus doesn't perform better than that, especially at that price, because the way it's built it's very user friendly once you're on an actual shoot, well at least theoretically. I got this in the first place because it is impossible to hyper sync my Einstein flash heads because of their IGBT conception giving very short flash duration with virtually no tail part of the flash duration to work with for hyper syncing aside from a
...Show more

Would it be easier/more cost effective to pick up an ab800 to hypersync with when you don't need the other benefits of the Einsteins?



Jun 04, 2013 at 02:52 PM
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