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Archive 2013 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?
  
 
wvphillygirl24
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


I started out a few years ago on 2 40D bodies. When one of them went, I replaced it with a 7D. I shoot mainly sports, in addition to some senior portraits and team/individual work. I have a 70-200 2.8 L non-IS lens that is my fave. I want to get something that is better in low-light for the sports I photo (football, basketball, night baseball and softball games). I also would like to get a longer range lens like the 300 2.8. I shoot mostly poorly lit gyms and fields.

I have no problem buying used or refurb, which will definitely help me get more bang for my $$. I am debating between a 1d Mark 4 and a used 300 or do I just jump to the 1DX and wait on the 300? My copy of the 7D is on the noisier side and I hate noise. I also use my action shots for collage posters that the school buys from me for the seniors as gifts. While the local county newspaper does not have a problem with my images, I see the problems. Then again, the gear this paper has to work with, my images are better in low light than what they have. I also do stringer work for the local city newspaper for youth sports and really want to bump up my images to the next level. I really would like to get something between now and the end of summer in time for football. I like the crop because I like getting the extra reach from my lenses. I think I would jump on the 7d2 if it were to come out in that time frame, but I heard it may be next year before it comes out.

A photog friend of mine suggested the 5dM3 but isn't the 1dM4 better in low light and have more fps than the 5d3?
So, to recap... 1dm4 and the 300 2.8, or 1DX and no 300, or 5d3 and 300?



May 29, 2013 at 01:20 AM
stebesplace
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


If you'reIf you're shooting on a 7D, from a 40D, and want to jump all the way to a 1D4 or 1DX, sounds like money isn't really an issue for what you're looking to achieve. And if you are doing lower light work, then yes, 2.8 will be your friend compared to 4 or 5.6.

A 1D4 is an excellent camera, and great bang for buck to be on a pro body, 1.3x crop for added reach, and a 300 2.8. The 1DX is an incredible camera, but $1500 more in some cases, and you could put that towards a 300 right now. Sell your 7D if you need or want, or keep your 70-200 on that, and your new 1D4 with the 300 glued to it.

I wouldn't get a 1DX unless $ isn't an issue, which it seems it might be if you have to wait on the 300.

Of course, you could get a 5D3, which is similar performance to a 1D4, though I think the 1D you'll gain a bit with the 1.3x crop, and the pro body, which on a 300 2.8 could help balance things on a monopod, etc.



May 29, 2013 at 01:36 AM
jimmy462
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


Hi Kerry,

I'm neither a sports shooter or 1D-series owner so I can offer you no insights regarding those two aspects in your search for solutions. What I do offer is a video and related web page that I stumbled on whilst researching whether it was time for me to consider upgrading from my current 5D2/7D combo. This fellow pits a 5D3, 1DX and 1D4 against each other for both high-ISO testing and AF evaluation, I thought it worth a look for your needs...

Canon 1Dx, 5D Mark III and 1D Mark IV ISO Testing - YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIBiUW09G20

...and his full-rez images from that video comparison, here...

1Dx, 1D Mark IV and 5D Mark III Test Images Photo Gallery by Colin at pbase.com:
http://www.pbase.com/clknight/1dx_1d_iv_5d_mark_iii_comparison

...clearly you will be upgrading your high-ISO performance over the 7D with any of these choices! Hopefully, his tests are of some assistance to you!



May 29, 2013 at 02:11 AM
lucas lumiere
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


You didn't mention which version of the 300mm 2.8 you wanted to get. Perhaps if you got the older, non-is version of the lens, you could still swing the 1DX?


May 29, 2013 at 02:42 AM
rcheliphotog
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


Another option would be a 1D IV, 200 f/2, and a 1.4 extender.

You will like the 1D body, whichever one you get. They are much more responsive and workable than the 7D.



May 29, 2013 at 06:02 AM
saneproduction
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


I will say the 5DIII has almost the same AF of the 1DX and of 6 FPS is enough for you I would strongly consider it along with a 300 2.8. If you get the Lexar 1000X cards and shoot raw only the buffer is pretty good. If you need 10 FPS, the 1DX is pretty amazing from my small interaction with it. I would really really like one. That said, if funds are limited always invest in glass. Otherwise when 2 years go by you lose a lot in depreciation. Now if you need the 1DX now, just get it. With the ISO capability you could really make a big impact with a cheaper lens like the 300 F4IS or 70-200 + 1.4II or III


May 29, 2013 at 06:19 AM
Tom Dix
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


My rec is a 300 2.8 IS. The v1 is excellent and will give you some impressive images on a 7d.
The best to you.



May 29, 2013 at 07:51 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


You can't really go wrong with either the 1D IV or 5D III and 300 IMO. For the type of sports you shoot will 300mm be enough on FF? Although in the case of the 5D III you are only down about 10% on reach if you have to crop, compared to the 1D IV, so it's not much of a gap.

Basically do you prefer the build and speed and faster responsiveness, with high IQ of the 1D IV, or the overall better AF (1D IV is still excellent) and even higher IQ (especially at high ISO) of the 5D III?

But I'd definitely get one of these cameras and the 300 f/2.8L IS mk I, instead of just getting a 1D X as good as it is, the glass is more important and 5D III gives you 90% of the capability.




May 29, 2013 at 08:55 AM
Andrew J
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


1DMKIV and 300/2.8L vI.


May 29, 2013 at 09:32 AM
wvphillygirl24
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


Thank you all for taking the time to help me think this through. I really appreciate it! I will update you all when I make my purchase on what I decided on! Right now I am thinking the 1DM4 and either the 300 or the 200/2.0. That 200 lens is a great one and with the extender would be nice. I might get the extender now with the camera body then after I do a few football leagues t/i, get the 200. That lens is like $6K. I can swing the camera and a used 300 right now. but if I get the camera and extender then save the rest for the 200. I'm liking that idea.


May 29, 2013 at 04:00 PM
 

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ScooberJake
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


The 200/2 could also be used for some killer headshots in your senior work.


May 30, 2013 at 06:03 PM
jasonpatrick
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


I vote for the 300 over the 200 - you already have a really nice 200 f2.8 covered with your zoom. The 300 2.8 also becomes a fantastic 420 f/4 and a pretty good 600 f/5.6 with extenders. It's a pretty flexible set up.


May 30, 2013 at 06:36 PM
wvphillygirl24
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


@jason... I did not think about that. And that would be cheaper, too. hmmmm. I already use the 70-200 for my portraits and I am considering the 85 1.2 after I get this stuff to use for portraits and basketball.


May 30, 2013 at 07:19 PM
jasonpatrick
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


I have the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II and the 300 IS - Both lenses work well with the mk III extenders.

If you want to use your 85 for moving targets, get the 85 1.8. It focuses faster than the 1.2 version. THe 85 1.2 is in a league of it's own, but the 85 1.8 can do almost just as good in addition to being 300 bucks.



May 30, 2013 at 07:30 PM
Alan321
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


I'd say get a better lens first. Not because that's my general line of thinking but because the 7D ought to be good enough to take advantage of a faster-focusing and sharper lens. Then, if you need to go further you could get a 1-series body. At that stage you lose out a bit on pixels per duck (or football).

If you use an extender then you can expect the 1-series cameras to slow down their AF - all to get a better result but sometimes you will notice the lag.

I was never greatly impressed with the noise in 1D4 high-ISO images and the 1Dx is supposed to be much better. This would be very useful for indoor sports but it comes at a high purchase price.

I would also avoid the 1D4 because it does a crappy job of implementing spot-mode AF. The fact that they have not fixed that in a firmware update (even though the 7D does it properly) indicates the level of support you can expect from Canon. Therefore if you don't get everything you want or need in the camera you are considering then wait for a newer model. Spot AF is great for precision subject selection and worth using, except on the 1D4 implementation.

- Alan



May 31, 2013 at 10:07 AM
tsproul1
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


Just to throw it out there - i like my sigma 120-300 for sports.


And value is so individualistic that you have to decide. It sounds like you know all the pertinent differences. You just need to decide what differences are worth the money or not.

I went from 40D to 1Dx. I purchase a camera to use it for many years. If i get 2 yr old technology, i have 2 yrs less use before tech envy overtakes my good senses and i have to get the latest/greatest.

Whatever you do, stick with what you can afford. Glass has a longer lifespan than bodies.



May 31, 2013 at 03:07 PM
Alan321
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


tsproul1 wrote:
Glass has a longer lifespan than bodies.


Generally true but there are exceptions - consider the huge change that Canon made in going from FD to EF lenses, or that their more modern EF-S lenses do not go with their full frame cameras. Also consider that a lens bought near the end of its long life cycle will run out of maintenance support that much sooner than a newly introduced lens, but it may not reflect in the purchase price until you try to sell or buy one after the new model is introduced. They are not supported forever, and with AF motors and IS there is plenty more to go wrong than with the old manual focus lenses.

- Alan




Jun 16, 2013 at 04:41 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


Do not get 1DX, nor 200 f/2 IS, nor 300 f/2.8 IS MkII.

That top notch stuff is not as cost effective as this stuff: 5DMkIII or 1DMkIV with 300 f/2.8 IS MkI..... those gears offer 90% performance for about 50% cost of the top shelf options.



Jun 16, 2013 at 04:58 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


wvphillygirl24 wrote:
I started out a few years ago on 2 40D bodies. When one of them went, I replaced it with a 7D. I shoot mainly sports, in addition to some senior portraits and team/individual work. I have a 70-200 2.8 L non-IS lens that is my fave. I want to get something that is better in low-light for the sports I photo (football, basketball, night baseball and softball games). I also would like to get a longer range lens like the 300 2.8. I shoot mostly poorly lit gyms and fields.

I have no problem buying used or refurb, which
...Show more

The 1D4 has only very modestly more reach than the 5D3.

(16MP/22.3MP)* (1.3/1)^2 = 1.2x more pixels per player from the 1D4 which is like using a sqrt(1.21)=1.1x TC on the 5D3 compared to no TC on the 1D4

Not sure where you got the 1D4 is better at low light thing. It has slightly older tech and a smaller sensor. The 5D3 does use slightly newer tech so it should be a trace more efficient per sensor area so it should just slightly do better even when distance limited and when a player manages to fill frame and you don't need to crop then it does better than 1D4 for noise by a bit.

1DX has the best high ISO of the three but a touch less reach as the 1D4 puts 1.5x more pixels per player or like you need to use a 1.23x TC on the 1DX to match the 1D4 reach.

Under really foul lighting reach differences can become a bit less due to various issues.

Yeah the 1DX and 1D4 do have a lot more fps than the 5D3.

If you need more reach than your 70-200 2.8 provides, and for football, baseball, softball you almost surely do, especially if the lighting is not too horrific, the 300 2.8 is what gives you reach since it is like using a 1.5x TC on the 70-200 while the 1D4 vs 5D2 is like only a 1.1x TC difference and 1D4 vs 1DX is a 1.23x TC difference. For basketball I'd have thought your 70-200 2.8 would've had you already covered though.

The 7D has a lot more reach than all of them. Per sensor area is actually fairly efficient. When utterly reach limited it actually does BETTER than say a 5D2 (5D3 is a touch better still though)) for SNR. If you are doing huge crops and need to use the full pixel detail of the 7D simply using the same old 70-200 on the new body might not do much in terms of noise improvements. If you use a 300 2.8 and that lets you use enough the larger sensors to make a difference it should help though (of coruse you could also use 300 2.8 on the 7D). For some of those field sports shots you should be able to take advantage of the larger sensors and for some shots though not so much at all. For basketball you should pretty much universally be able to take advantage of the larger sensors and the 1DX would do a little bit better than the 5D3 would do better than the 1D4 would do better than the 7D for nearly every shot.

Hard to say about the 7D2. It sounds like might not arrive until around when football seasons ends or even get pushed early the following year, hard to say. In the early 20D-40D days they usually got the lower tier bodies out in time for fall sports, but then they kept getting later and later with everything, my 5D2 didn't arrive until the season was virtually over sadly or in time for fall foliage either. I've been a fan of spring releases like the 5D3, since then you get it in time for summer trips and fall sports and foliage and so on (im sure that works way better for wedding shooters too) than the later in the year releases, especially the nasty end of November releases when they get it out just in time that I don't even care so much by that point). But who knows when the 7D2 will arrive for sure.

Maybe get the 300 now and the cheapest used 1D4/5D3 you can find and then sell it and get 7D2 when that finally arrives (although for basketball the larger 5D3/1DX would most likely do better SNR than even a 7D2 almost for sure).



Jun 16, 2013 at 05:19 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Best way to upgrade for the $$$?


wvphillygirl24 wrote:
Thank you all for taking the time to help me think this through. I really appreciate it! I will update you all when I make my purchase on what I decided on! Right now I am thinking the 1DM4 and either the 300 or the 200/2.0. That 200 lens is a great one and with the extender would be nice. I might get the extender now with the camera body then after I do a few football leagues t/i, get the 200. That lens is like $6K. I can swing the camera and a used 300 right now. but if
...Show more

One thing to keep in mind is that 1.4x TC slows AF down 50%.
You might also, when lighting is good enough, like to use a 1.4x TC with the 300 2.8 for field sports and get to 420mm f/4.




Jun 16, 2013 at 05:23 PM
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