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Archive 2013 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


I own a 5Dc and a 5DmkII. Some of you may know that I intend to get a 5DmkIII in 2014. Along with it, I'm contemplating getting a 50L, even though I could reallly use it now. But I know that with the 50L, the AF on a 5DmkII isn't reliable because (a) I read the reports here and (b) I tested the lens on my own 5DmkII. FTR all of my other lenses work just fine with both of my cameras so I can rule out general AF problems with either body. Also, the 50L tested consistently was 100% sharp on a LensAlign target and center AF point in reasonable light. It just sucked shooting different other subjects.

It's nice to experiment but for a working pro the 5Dc/5D2 + 50L combos appear to be useless. Even if that were totally true, which it may not because Jasmine Star built her career using mainly a 5DmkII and a 50L, there could be two ways to go here and I would really appreciate your comments:

Route 1
Wait until I get a 5DmkIII, pick up a 50L along with it and start learning to use it. The 50L itch will be there for a while longer.

Route 2
Get a 50L now, start shooting it with my 5Dc and 5DmkII, enjoy the lens now for all it can be with these cameras and when the 5DmkIII comes along any serious AF problems should be solved.

Question 1
What would you do?

Question 2: MF an option?
I have the EEs focusing screen in my 5Dc. If I were to go Route 2, and if I were not to be able to make the AF work on my cameras to make for a solid reliable setup, would it be possible to shoot the 50L in MF mode for weddings? Is there anyone doing this? Is it doable? Yes I know it's doable with patience and when there is time to reshoot after chimping. But that is not an option during wedding shoots.

Just for information: I'm not aiming at other brands or 1Dseries canons. I've tried a 1DsmkII, a 1DmkIII, a 1DsmkIII and now that the 5DIII has come out that is what I want to shoot my stuff with.

Thanks!

Stay good,
Ralph




May 26, 2013 at 02:10 AM
saneproduction
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


You should get the super precision matte screen for your 5DII to aid in focusing. It is not accurate to 1.2 but it is much better than the stock screen. The 50L was my favorite lens on the 5DII and I was able to focus fine, it takes a little getting used to. Don't get caught up in the forum talk disliking the 50L, it is a great lens.


May 26, 2013 at 03:30 AM
saneproduction
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


Oh and if you are working close wide open shoot a little burst as you lean back slightly in one shot mode to bracket the focus.


May 26, 2013 at 03:36 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


saneproduction wrote:
You should get the super precision matte screen for your 5DII to aid in focusing. It is not accurate to 1.2 but it is much better than the stock screen. The 50L was my favorite lens on the 5DII and I was able to focus fine, it takes a little getting used to. Don't get caught up in the forum talk disliking the 50L, it is a great lens.


Hi! Thanks for your reply. You say you were able to focus fine. Do you mean using AF or using MF? And why are you talking in the past? Did you sell the lens? Or do you own a different camera now?

[Edit]
saneproduction wrote:
Oh and if you are working close wide open shoot a little burst as you lean back slightly in one shot mode to bracket the focus.

That is a good tip, thanks. I think that for events/weddings most scenes will be shot at larger distance, where people are in head to toe or at least head to waist with lots of their surroundings in the frame. I would say typical range will be 3~10 metres or 10~30 feet. A 50L wide open, at those distances DoF will still be narrow, but at least not as narrow as portraits from 1m/3ft. I will experiment with this.

Thanks!

Stay good,
Ralph


Edited on May 26, 2013 at 06:55 AM · View previous versions



May 26, 2013 at 03:38 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


Another point of interest is this:

Anyone using 5DmkII and 5DmkIII with their 50L? I heard people try several versions of a 50L even on their 5DmkIII before finding a good match.

So: what if I get a 50L that is a good match with my 5DmkII. And what if that particular 50L copy isn't a good match with my (to buy in 2014) 5DmkIII?

Or am I making it needlessly difficult for myself now? You know this is a lot of cash for a lens. I can afford it because I think I can make money with it. But it's a hell of a lot of money down the drain if things don't work out.

Thank you for your opinions.

Stay good,
Ralph



May 26, 2013 at 06:54 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


You are "overthinking" it I have used my 50L without any problem on five different bodies, including the 5D.
The S screen will help you to do accurate MF with fast lenses.



May 26, 2013 at 08:24 AM
cineski
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


Jasmine Star built her career by being rabidly type A. As for the 50L, I have more AF luck with my 5D3 than I ever did with my 5Dc's. When I used 5D2's, the focus was no different than the 5Dc except I noticed the 5D2's were a tad slower. The 5D3 and 50L combo is amazing. It's wonderful having live view to manually focus if needed and AF on the 5D3 is more accurate. The only issue with live view is I wish the layout in zoom mode were different. I wish the image stayed the unzoomed image so you can accurately frame, and just a center square overlay showed the zoomed in area for manual focus accuracy.


May 26, 2013 at 08:32 AM
cineski
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


If you get a 50L and something seems off, send it to Canon right away for a projection test. All lenses can get out of alignment and lens variation is definitely real. My first 16-35 mark II was not sharp even when properly focused. The 2nd one was an absolute keeper and the one I use today. At the time, I didn't know about projection testing but now I get all my lenses done on a yearly or bi-yearly basis.

rabbitmountain wrote:
Another point of interest is this:

Anyone using 5DmkII and 5DmkIII with their 50L? I heard people try several versions of a 50L even on their 5DmkIII before finding a good match.

So: what if I get a 50L that is a good match with my 5DmkII. And what if that particular 50L copy isn't a good match with my (to buy in 2014) 5DmkIII?

Or am I making it needlessly difficult for myself now? You know this is a lot of cash for a lens. I can afford it because I think I can make money with it. But it's a
...Show more



May 26, 2013 at 08:35 AM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


If you are ok with MF then there are other really fast 50mm lenses that have a better focus action than the 50L...


May 26, 2013 at 09:46 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


Hi guys, thanks for helping out I'll try to respond below.
@Lars: (1) that is reassuring, unless all of your 5 bodies were 1D series. May I inquire to which models you used the 50L with? (2) My 5Dc already has a EEs focusing screen. I was thinking of using that body in case I need to revert to MF.
@Cineski: (1) could you explain what you mean by Jasmine Star "type A"? (2) I think I couldn't use LV for weddings. I guess that way of focusing would take too much time in the rush hour type of scenes. What would you use it for? (3) I fully understand your request for the LV centre square overlay request, I think that would be very useful. (4) I had my 16-35mkII and 5Dc at Canon for AF calibration. It came back with good AF precision but it's still softer at the left side of the frame. Apparently the focus calibration that they did is different from alignment correction.

Maybe, after your encouraging input, I'm inclined to give it a chance. I did a test with both of my 5D's (mkI and mkII) in an inside venue (a photographic store) and I was concerned about AF performance. During that test, I noticed that I had consistently splendid focus accuracy when using MF on my 5Dc. The 50L really came to life. My only reservation was whether or not I would learn to MF fast enough for the fast pace of weddings. I know I will need to practice and that I will need to have patience with this lens. Seeing what the 50L can do makes me want to invest time as needed.
The 50L is one of the no 1 reasons for wanting a 5D mkIII. The other one is silent shutter. Maybe, if I get the MF right on the 5Dc, I can postpone the 5DmkIII.

Any further comments are highly appreciated.

Stay good,
Ralph



May 26, 2013 at 09:55 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


PhotoMaximum wrote:
If you are ok with MF then there are other really fast 50mm lenses that have a better focus action than the 50L...

Hi, I just missed your post while typing mine. I still hope to use AF a lot with the 50L, the mkIII will be in there for me at some point anyway and I hope the 50L will be there for life.
That said, could you share which brands and types? I've never seen a 50mm with a similar OOF rendering as the 50L, but I'm willing to learn.



May 26, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


Hi, I have used just about every lens Canon makes shorter than 200mm. The 50L is superb. And it works great at other apertures other than 1.2! It has a different rendering of the image no matter what the aperture than most other Canon lenses. I love it for photographing people.I preferred it over the 85L because the AF on the 50L is much better, it's easier to MF and it's obviously a lighter lens.

Buy it, use it, if you don't like it sell it. Worse case it will cost you a few hundred bucks. Think of it as renting a lens. (you can always go to lensrentals.com and rent one)

Remember in these and other forums you gotta read between the lines and weed through all the negative posts which a lot of times are made by people who have not even used the gear being discussed.



May 26, 2013 at 10:12 AM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


I help moderate a film making forum and there is a lot of chatter about getting the 50L to focus well. When shooting video you have to use MF but the manual focus barrel and short barrel movement makes this difficult. You just do not get great focusing feedback for a lens this expensive.

Tour the Alt section and you will find threads devoted to f/1.2 lenses. I love my EOS converted Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2.

One of the issues you are fighting with the older 5D bodies is that Canon concentrates on AF and not MF. I never realized how vague the MF on 5D was until I started using a 1.2 lens. In the end I ordered a packet of 12 mirror viewing screen shims (Canon calls them washers) from Canon and carefully, through trial and error, experimented with replacing the shim. Each one was of a different thickness. I found one that worked and then added a matte screen. I then could quickly focus on the tip of a pencil at f/1.2.

Try this: put your camera on a tripod and place a long ruler on the floor perpendicular to the lens. Then do your best at focusing on different feet makings with the fastest lens you can find. A 1.2 or 1.4 lens makes a big difference. Then look at the images on a computer. Do not be surprised if your camera is front or back focusing. I was shocked at my results. I use MF about 50% of the time generally and was not getting accurate focus with any lens really. My percentage of keepers went up after making this adjustment. You can also ask Canon to perform this task for you.

Many modern cameras are poor manual focusing machines. You just do not get accurate feedback. This reinforces the reliance on AF, but accurate MF, when needed can be a great thing, especially when using exotic fast glass...



May 26, 2013 at 10:31 AM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


PhotoMaximum wrote:
I help moderate a film making forum and there is a lot of chatter about getting the 50L to focus well. When shooting video you have to use MF but the manual focus barrel and short barrel movement makes this difficult. You just do not get great focusing feedback for a lens this expensive.



It's a lot different to use MF when shooting film and shooting normal still photography. You can't compare it like you did. A lens that doesn't work that good for film making can still be excellent for normal photography when it comes to MF



May 26, 2013 at 10:40 AM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


Try focussing an old screw mount (M42) Pentax Super Takumar 50/1.4 lens and you will find the focus action on the lens barrel to be silky smooth and rewarding. The lens has a nice focus throw to it. I have tried the 50L and 85L and I find them less user friendly to focus manually. Sort of feels like I am wearing thick gloves or something. Optically the 85L is stunning but it should be for the asking price.


May 26, 2013 at 10:47 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


PhotoMaximum wrote:
If you are ok with MF then there are other really fast 50mm lenses that have a better focus action than the 50L...

Hi, I just missed your post while typing mine. I still hope to use AF a lot with the 50L, the mkIII will be in there for me at some point anyway and I hope the 50L will be there for life.
That said, could you share which brands and types? I've never seen a 50mm with a similar OOF rendering as the 50L, but I'm willing to learn.
Edit: double post, sorry, don't know where this came from.

Edited on May 26, 2013 at 12:28 PM · View previous versions



May 26, 2013 at 11:35 AM
saneproduction
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


rabbitmountain wrote:
Hi! Thanks for your reply. You say you were able to focus fine. Do you mean using AF or using MF? And why are you talking in the past? Did you sell the lens? Or do you own a different camera now?

[Edit]

That is a good tip, thanks. I think that for events/weddings most scenes will be shot at larger distance, where people are in head to toe or at least head to waist with lots of their surroundings in the frame. I would say typical range will be 3~10 metres or 10~30 feet. A 50L wide open, at those distances
...Show more

I upgraded to the 5DIII and the lens still works perfectly.

As to the focusing question, I am talking about both AF (center point, one shot focus re-compose) and manual with the EG-S screen. The 5DIII has no changable screen so MF is much harder to see. This is #1 problem with the mark III but still minor compared to the overall refinement all around.

You are totally over thinking this and driving yourself crazy. I can say this because I did the same thing based on all of the forum reports and reviews. I bought every other possible 50 from canon and several sigmas until I got a good one, even Leica R glass. It was all a waste of time because when I got the 50L it was just magic and all my doubts went away. Let me tell you, I felt like a big dumba$$ for wasting so much time and effort.



May 26, 2013 at 12:06 PM
saneproduction
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


rabbitmountain wrote:
Hi guys, thanks for helping out I'll try to respond below.
@Lars: (1) that is reassuring, unless all of your 5 bodies were 1D series. May I inquire to which models you used the 50L with? (2) My 5Dc already has a EEs focusing screen. I was thinking of using that body in case I need to revert to MF.
@Cineski: (1) could you explain what you mean by Jasmine Star "type A"? (2) I think I couldn't use LV for weddings. I guess that way of focusing would take too much time in the rush hour type of scenes. What
...Show more

You will be fine using AF on the 5DII and 5D. Just use one shot center AF and focus re-compose. It is an autofocus lens, that is what it is made for



May 26, 2013 at 12:12 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


PhotoMaximum wrote:
[...] I never realized how vague the MF on 5D was until I started using a 1.2 lens. In the end I ordered a packet of 12 mirror viewing screen shims (Canon calls them washers) from Canon and carefully, through trial and error, experimented with replacing the shim. Each one was of a different thickness. I found one that worked and then added a matte screen. I then could quickly focus on the tip of a pencil at f/1.2.


My 5Dclassic has the EE-s focusing screen, which is the equivalent of the one you use in your mkII. With that setup, I could manually focus the 50L I tried in the store, with great results. I expect to be able to use MF faster after using the lens more. Whether I'll be able to keep up with a wedding unfolding or not, remains to be seen.

Stay good,
Ralph



May 26, 2013 at 12:35 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Torn on 50L dilemma. MF workable @f/1.2?


saneproduction wrote:
You are totally over thinking this and driving yourself crazy. I can say this because I did the same thing based on all of the forum reports and reviews. I bought every other possible 50 from canon and several sigmas until I got a good one, even Leica R glass. It was all a waste of time because when I got the 50L it was just magic and all my doubts went away. Let me tell you, I felt like a big dumba$$ for wasting so much time and effort.

Well I tested the lens on both of my cameras in the store and it scared me away. But I do know that results will surely improve after practice. I'll need to chew on this a bit more, but I might order it soon.

Stay good,
Ralph.



May 26, 2013 at 12:40 PM
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