p.1 #1 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
I have been thinking about a mirrorless camera. I have about 20 EOS and Alt lenses. While doing some reading I see a ton of remarks from shooters who are so happy moving away from DSLR systems to one of the mirrorless alternatives. There are a lot of new solid, smaller lenses now and you can also adapt all kinds of older lenses quite easily which appeals to certain shooters.
It seems like both Canon and Nikon are not on the market cutting edge here. The Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Panasonic cameras and lenses are quite popular.
Are shooters that willing to give up on mirror based cameras in significant numbers that it will impact development of the current DSLR systems? R&D dollars always follows the market after all...
p.1 #2 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
I think we have already seen a significant shift in the pro-am market. Many have not upgraded their DSLR systems but have instead invested heavily in the micro 4/3 and/or 4/3rd systems. At least that's what my statistical analysis shows.
p.1 #3 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
My .02:
At the advanced amateur or pro level, no threat anytime in the foreseeable future.... There is no mirrorless that can touch a 5D3, D800, or 1DX. Hell, even the next rung down of SLRs (7d, 6D, D600) are well beyond any mirrorless offering in every way except portability. That said, many shooters in this category are adding mirrorless to their kit for what it has to offer.
At the casual shooter level... sure... its already happening... Many P/S shooters are buying O Pens instead of Rebels. Many Rebel users are downsizing. Canon and Nikon will react of course. The SL-1 is such a reaction. Is it a good reaction? IDK!
p.1 #4 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
There are a lot of users on the Alt forum who have either switched totally or have added a mirrorless system which they seem to enjoy more.
I just can't help wonder if the DSLR world is not facing a historical Kodak corporation moment where the assumption is that the "new thing" will take years and not really take over...
p.1 #5 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Im more worried about ability of Canon to compete with others (be it mirrorless or dSLRs).
Kodak moment? Not yet.
But as soon as "pro" like mirrorless will start, then it will start to shift. So far there is only RX1 which is sorta luxury item and Leica, which is pretty much same case. Rest is APS-C or smaller, so not important.
Tho so far with mirrorless AF, dSLRs dont need to worry. I think both, even when mirrorless get FFs, can coexist for pretty long time.
p.1 #6 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Maybe they will take some of the P/S and low end DSLR market, but not eliminate the better DSLRs. Once you get to long tele lenses the advantages of a DSLR are clear. There's no reason Canon or Nikon could not go electronic like Sony if they felt the need.
p.1 #7 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Mescalamba wrote:
Im more worried about ability of Canon to compete with others (be it mirrorless or dSLRs).
Kodak moment? Not yet.
But as soon as "pro" like mirrorless will start, then it will start to shift. So far there is only RX1 which is sorta luxury item and Leica, which is pretty much same case. Rest is APS-C or smaller, so not important.
Tho so far with mirrorless AF, dSLRs dont need to worry. I think both, even when mirrorless get FFs, can coexist for pretty long time.
Not to worry until EVF's have ZERO lag time; or are as quick as the human eye. When a prism's cost to implement out weighs the EVF then the shift will gain strength. When both AF and EVF are mature, match or beat DSLRs, perhaps when weight will be reduced on the whole there will be a bigger shift.
Smaller sized bodies are indeed more portable, but changing hand size is not possible, big fingers/mitts and gloves to cover from the elements do exist and some find even a G series impossible or uncomfortable to use, although in a pinch they'll due when nothing else is carry-able or practical.
So no immediate threat that I can see, just augmentation of your current full sized bodies...IMHO
p.1 #8 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Can only speak for myself here, but I've reduced ny Canon kit by about 50% and the proceeds have gone to Sony (NEX). Using MF alt glass on the NEX is a lot of fun, and having AF Zeiss via A mount adapter now is a big plus for me. I'm also looking forward to the additional AF Zeiss on native E mount that's coming soon. But NEX isn't capable of providing everything I need, so I expect to keep both systems for forseeable future.
p.1 #9 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Let's not forget the mirrorless systems are only a few years old and are evolving at a very fast pace. Today they might not compete against the DSLR ( that is debatable for a vast majority of DSLR shooters ), but let's take another look at the market in 5 years time. I believe mirrorless already outsell DSLR's in some markets like Japan.
p.1 #10 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
The first cameras were mirrorless. Then, when SLR's came along photographers all wanted one because of the ability to see the image you were shooting.
Now with EVF's, there is renewed interest in mirrorless, but the tradeoffs are slow autofocus when using a large sensor, blurred image in the evf for moving subjects, and the bodies and buttons are too small for those of us with big hands.
As long as a photographer is willing to use a small sensor camera, with tiny controls, its a pretty good trade.
I like the idea of choice in the market place, the buyers will decide.
As far as cameras produced and shipped, figures are available, no need to guess.
p.1 #12 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Having used both, I think they are clearly different systems, with some overlap.
DSLR's still rule when it comes to action, most wildlife, and flash photography. Mirrorless has, in my view, the upper hand with travel and perhaps street photography. If I am shooting birds in flight, I would not think about anything other than a DSLR. If I were to be traveling in Europe, I would take my mirrorless camera. It seems perfectly natural to me to have two parallel systems.
For me a more interesting question would be what to recommend to a novice moving up from a point-and-shoot. My answer in the past was to get a beginner DSLR body and good lenses. These days, I am not so sure.
p.1 #14 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
The wave of the future is mirror less and pocketable. To deny that is silly. Any new shooter looking to upgrade from a p&s or smartphone will be hard pressed not to see the advantages of a nex, micro 4/3, over an entry level dslr. Form factor alone is a huge selling point. We've seen with the Sony rx1 that a ff mirror less for the (relative) masses is possible, I fully expect Sony ET al to release several ff mirror less models within the next 5 years some with interchangeable mounts. Heck maybe we'll finally get a standard mount across all lines. That will likely be the death rattle of the ancient single lens reflex design.
p.1 #15 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
robbymack wrote:
The wave of the future is mirror less and pocketable. To deny that is silly. Any new shooter looking to upgrade from a p&s or smartphone will be hard pressed not to see the advantages of a nex, micro 4/3, over an entry level dslr. Form factor alone is a huge selling point. We've seen with the Sony rx1 that a ff mirror less for the (relative) masses is possible, I fully expect Sony ET al to release several ff mirror less models within the next 5 years some with interchangeable mounts. Heck maybe we'll finally get a standard mount across all lines. That will likely be the death rattle of the ancient single lens reflex design. ...Show more →
Rather limited view. My favorite lens is my 400 mm 5.6 L. Really difficult to use it with an LCD screen especially outdoors on sunny days. Pocketable
p.1 #16 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
My $0.02:
The photographic SYSTEM is going to lead, much like it has in the last 30 years.
As others have pointed out, mirrorless is already taking over for the consumers/advanced-consumers. Professionals or advanced-amateurs won't be won over until an entire system is developed and COMMITTED to. The system includes cameras, lenses, flashes, and accessories. I'm not sure that any mirrorless lens offerings are targeted at professionals. Even if they did start to offer some, they would have to prove that they'll stay committed to their lineup.
Some have pointed to how Kodak misread the clues for digital taking over from film. Don't forget that part of the reason that digital was adopted by professionals so quickly was because Canon and Nikon offered camera bodies that fit right into the existing film SLR systems already in place. The controls were the same, the lenses were the same, and the system was essentially still the same. They just updated one little part. For the photographer, upgrading was not as painful as it could have been if they had started from scratch. I would bet that adoption would have been A LOT slower if they hadn't.
p.1 #17 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
I agree that until mirrorless systems offer the gamut and performance of known DSLR ranges (including future develpments), then there won't be a complete shift.
It will sound pedantic as I repeat myself, but in the end we're really only talking about flange distances and nothing more. How the photographer peers through the lens is ultimately immaterial as it's all technology of one sort or another. But the mechanics of how the system is implemented, is the big difference and that is where flange distance comes into play, and the corresponding things that go with it.
I don't think Canon are threatened in any way. I do think they are really biding their time to see where the market goes, but once they start making firm commitments to a market, I think you can trust that they'll play to win in that market at that time, based on a combination of features, price and performance.
(but hurry up and show what you plan to do with the EOS-M system!)
p.1 #19 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
Let me get this out my chest. I am a fan of the OM-D and the various Fujifilm alternatives. They make for great day out photography.
For me the only drawbacks are irksome ergonomics when compared to a good dslr. Their AF system trails even the entry level dslr when tracking erratic moving subjects. Just too slow.
Therefore unless there is another leap in the mirrorless camera gene pool, I highly doubt I will let go of my dslrs. I do see them as a great companion cameras. Then again, smartphone cameras are really good too. As they say the best camera is the camera you have with you....
p.1 #20 · How much do the mirrorless systems threaten Canon and Nikon DSLRs?
robbymack wrote:
The wave of the future is mirror less and pocketable. To deny that is silly. Any new shooter looking to upgrade from a p&s or smartphone will be hard pressed not to see the advantages of a nex, micro 4/3, over an entry level dslr. Form factor alone is a huge selling point. We've seen with the Sony rx1 that a ff mirror less for the (relative) masses is possible, I fully expect Sony ET al to release several ff mirror less models within the next 5 years some with interchangeable mounts. Heck maybe we'll finally get a standard mount across all lines. That will likely be the death rattle of the ancient single lens reflex design. ...Show more →
I would not assume necessarily that Sony continues the alpha-mount products indefinitely or even stays in the business. Nikon and Canon are more likely to persist long term in the DSLR market. They both successfully navigated the film to digital transition (the latter more successfully intially) and any further changes are minor compared to that. Whether it has an optical or electronic viewfinder or a hybrid will not change the essential nature of the FF/FX DSLR form factor.
