Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2013 · Print profile issues
  
 
Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · Print profile issues


Hi All,

After having various bits printed and never 100% looking like the do on screen I now want to get some bigger pieces printed but obviously they need to be correct.

I'm pretty sure I know where I'll be using based on the fact they actually provide printer/colour profiles.

My problem is that while i expected the soft proof to vary slightly, I exported from lightroom to both jpg and PDF (using Nitro pdf) and both images look different from the original file and each other.

Could someone please advise what the best method to do this is?

For further info:
I went into LR, Print, Colour Management Profile changed to the one they provided.

Thanks in advance.
Ed



May 20, 2013 at 09:10 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · Print profile issues


Ed Swift wrote:
My problem is that while i expected the soft proof to vary slightly, I exported from lightroom to both jpg and PDF (using Nitro pdf) and both images look different from the original file and each other.

Sorry, I am a little confused: the soft proofs of the three look different from one another, or prints of the three look different?


Could someone please advise what the best method to do this is?

Do what? What is 'this'?


For further info:
I went into LR, Print, Colour Management Profile changed to the one they provided.

This is what you do when you are printing the image. Are you printing an image and comparing it with prints you are outsourcing?

Are you printing to a file from Lr, then softproofing the jpeg that creates and comparing it to a raw?

Brian A



May 20, 2013 at 11:15 PM
Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · Print profile issues


I followed those steps and printed to file. Once as pdf then as jpg. The pdf and jpg look different from each other and from the processed raw. I had thought the two files should look the same even if they didn’t match the raw.

By ‘this’ I meant soft proof correctly. I couldn’t see a soft proof option so presumed that printing to file was the way to do it.



May 21, 2013 at 08:07 AM
Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · Print profile issues


I just spoke to the company again and a different individual said to just submit test prints (no charge) where they do colour corrected and un-corrected versions to see which is best.

They mentioned this yesterday but i thought I had to try and match their colour profile first.

Could be that I don't have to bother with this until I want to print my own.



May 21, 2013 at 12:23 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · Print profile issues


I still don't have a clue what you are talking about...
Ed Swift wrote:
I followed those steps and printed to file. Once as pdf then as jpg. The pdf and jpg look different from each other and from the processed raw. I had thought the two files should look the same even if they didn’t match the raw.

Don't look the same where? On screen, on paper?


By ‘this’ I meant soft proof correctly. I couldn’t see a soft proof option so presumed that printing to file was the way to do it.


So did you soft proof or did you hard proof?

I just spoke to the company again and a different individual said to just submit test prints (no charge) where they do colour corrected and un-corrected versions to see which is best.

They mentioned this yesterday but i thought I had to try and match their colour profile first.

Could be that I don't have to bother with this until I want to print my own.

Bother with what exactly?

Brian A



May 22, 2013 at 02:12 AM
cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · Print profile issues


Prints will never exactly match screen. The gamuts and contrast are different. When editing you can increase saturation in colors on screen in ways the printer inks can't match. The fact soft proof mode images look less saturated reflect that reality. In soft proof mode with "out of gamut warning" enabled colors the soft proofing can't display correctly get grayed out. Those areas on the print will differ the most; colors like deep reds and purples.

The best you can hope for is a "perceptual" match. That's when screen image and print, viewed separately are accepted as "real / normal" when viewed individually, which isn't too difficult because human perception adapts dynamically and a reproduction with full range of tone / detail and neutral colors where expected will pass the "looks real" test.

A good way to visualize how the gamuts vary is to shoot a photo of someone holding a MacBeth color check after setting Custom WB off a gray card in the camera. Then print it wihout any editing and the compare the color chart on the print with the original. That result will be "par for the course" for that printer's gamut.

The errors you want to look for in a test like that and you can correct are any color biases in the neutral gray scale patches. If for example you make the print and grey column on the chart which measure R= G= B with the eyedropper and look OK on calibrated screen wind up with a magenta bias on the print it would indicate a problem with the printer profile being used. The solution then would be either to: 1) Get a more accurate printer profile made; 2) add a green bias to the copy of the file used on that print to compensate for the printer's magenta bias.





Edited on May 22, 2013 at 12:19 PM · View previous versions



May 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · Print profile issues


Hi again Brian,

I'm really not doing to well on this one am I!

Everything is on screen, I've not got access to the same printer so haven't printed on mine at all.

From what the company said when I spoke to them I'm not sure that I need to try and make what I see on screen after 'printing' (using their printer profile) to jpg match what I see looking at the raw. That would be good as I've obviously got no clue when it comes to printer profiles and the best way to proof with out just doing test prints.

Hopefully that makes it clearer. :/

edit: Just searching again it seems I've just not been able to find the soft proof function in lightroom so I'll see if i can find it again tonight. At least that will resolve my issue of the two 'prints' (jpg & pdf) not matching.

Ed



May 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · Print profile issues


Unless you are using a fully calibrated monitor, I think you are going through a fruitless exercise. You could easily be trying to correct something that needs no correction.

I think you best plan would be to softproof the image in the development module of Lr using the supplied profile. You do not need to convert it to the profile space by ‘printing’ it to a file. Just softproof the edited raw. Ignore how it looks in the softproof (more so if your monitor isn’t calibrated), but do view the out of gamut warning. If there is nothing, or very little, out of gamut, then I wouldn’t worry about it.

Only if you have large areas out-of-gamut should you start messing with the image. The most common colors to go out of gamut would be those in items of clothing or graphics, and naturally occurring saturated greens and oranges.

Did they tell you which rendering intent to use?

Brian A



May 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · Print profile issues


cgardner wrote:
Prints will never exactly match screen. The gamuts and contrast are different. When editing you can increase saturation in colors on screen in ways the printer inks can't match. The fact soft proof mode images look less saturated reflect that reality. In soft proof mode with "out of gamut warning" enabled colors the soft proofing can't display correctly get grayed out. Those areas on the print will differ the most; colors like deep reds and purples.

The best you can hope for is a "perceptual" match. That's when screen image and print, viewed separately are accepted as "real / normal" when
...Show more
Thanks very much. The main problems I've had in the past have been images looking darker and more a little contrasty I'll certainly use the out of gamut warnings when I do it the correct way not I know where to find the option.

Stupidly I was looking in the menus for the soft proof option when it was hiding in plain sight at the bottom of the window!



May 22, 2013 at 06:56 PM
Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · Print profile issues


hugowolf wrote:
Unless you are using a fully calibrated monitor, I think you are going through a fruitless exercise. You could easily be trying to correct something that needs no correction.

I think you best plan would be to softproof the image in the development module of Lr using the supplied profile. You do not need to convert it to the profile space by ‘printing’ it to a file. Just softproof the edited raw. Ignore how it looks in the softproof (more so if your monitor isn’t calibrated), but do view the out of gamut warning. If there is nothing, or very little,
...Show more
Thanks Brian, with out hardware such as a spider I have calibrated the monitor as best I can; I asked here some months back and was told it's not worth buying hardware for a laptop screen. Specifically I have made it match the results I receive back when I have calendars made by Snapfish. While this is obviously not scientific, it should result in the majority of prints I do looking the same.

In this situation though I'll be using a different company though hence trying this process. What I have found through this, and by using the newly found soft proof tick box in LR is that there seems to be a tint but hopefully their colour correction will sort this out.

I'll make sure I only change anything if the warning comes up. From what their site shows in the instructions I believe I should be using perceptual.

Thanks for your patience.

Ed



May 22, 2013 at 07:12 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Print profile issues


If there is a tint, and there are no out of gamut colours, then it is your screen (lack of calibration), or the rendering intent. Perceptual will shift colors, even if there are no out of gamut colours in the image. Relative colorimetric will only shift out of gamut colours into gamut, any in gamut colours will remain constant. Try toggling between the two intents; if the tint occurs with both, then it is your monitor that is the problem.

The only reason to use perceptual would be when you have out of gamut colours; or, if you don’t have the time to examine an image to see if there are out of gamut colours, which is generally the case for large print shops. It is one of the reasons why small custom printers cost more money.

With soft proofing checked in the Lr development module, and the correct output profile selected under the histogram in the left panel, there are two small buttons in the top corners of the histogram. The left one will toggle what is out of gamut with your monitor/graphics card, but is meaningless unless you have calibrated your monitor and built a profile for it.

The one at the top right toggles out of gamut colours for the output profile; they should show up bright red in the rendered screen image. If you are seeing just a few scattered pixels out of gamut, there is little point in messing with the image.


Brian A



May 23, 2013 at 01:09 AM
Ed Swift
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · Print profile issues


Thanks Brian,

I had barely anything out of gamut on most of the pictures I checked and the other only had a couple of small blobs.

I've got to say I don't understand why I can't get both images to look the same on screen even if my monitor is not calibrated but It's not a big enough issue to bother with. I think it may have had something to do with simulate ink/paper as well as I think it reduced when i turned that off.

Many thanks for your advice.
Ed



May 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM





FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password