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Archive 2013 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft ...
  
 
mirrorrim
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p.1 #1 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


This is my second year of wedding photography and last night was the first time I worked with a videographer. There were 3 of them and they were all pretty hard to talk to/shy/quiet. I let them know what my plans were for the ceremony, first dance, etc and asked them what their plans were so we could try to stay out of each others shots. I was very conscious of where they were the whole time and made sure to get my shots and step out or walk behind them if they were filming something.

For the most part we worked together fairly well, I have a few other gripes about things they liked to do but I worked around it. However, the one technique that caught me off guard a lot was the "stand 1-2 feet away and swing around the couple" shot during key moments. I dont ever get so close to my clients so when a big moment came up, right as it was happening a guy would swoop in front and block every shot. One time he even rammed into me during one of his wide angle "swinging" moments and sputtered out "crap, can we redo the shot?" (The B&G did not hear him and he didnt try to reenact it). No apology or anything about me missing a shot too. I definitely got the feeling that they were used to doing whatever they wanted and if I hadnt said anything about my plans, for the most part they wouldnt have given a second thought to me.

So, several general questions. Is there any way to work around this? Talk more with the videographer about how obstructive the technique is? In my photographer-brain, I cant understand why they just couldnt film the moment standing in one place as it happens, instead of every.single.time. running up and swinging around. I know it makes for more creative video, but every shot like this?? Do I give the couple the shots I have, even if they are majorly ruined by a videographer's head or camera (I'm not talking about a guy standing behind them or to the side, I mean directly in front or so close it's distracting). A month before the wedding the bride told me she hired them, and at the wedding she was very grateful that we were working together so well..heh..I didnt want to be a debby downer when she emailed me about them, but should I have warned her something like this might happen? I'm covered in my contract about missing shots because of things like this. Any advice is appreciated.



May 19, 2013 at 03:13 PM
RKTodd
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p.1 #2 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


"Videography - Clients agree that the Studio is not responsible for shots missed due to excessive videographer interference, including positioning or equipment. Photographers will make every reasonable effort to capture every image possible, but photographers cannot shoot through blockades of people or equipment. Clients agree to inform both visual teams as to their priority (photo or video) so each team can adjust their shooting style accordingly."

...from my contract.

-Randall



May 19, 2013 at 03:20 PM
TRReichman
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p.1 #3 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


You have to learn to coordinate with them. You have to remember that you can get snippets of what is happening 1/250th of a second at a time and get what you need and they have to get every second of it. We may not like it, but if the client hired both of you you'll have to figure out a way to both get what you need with out fighting over it. It pays to make friends and coordinate who is going to do what when. Wedding Videography isn't going away and last surveys I saw said the trend to hire was increasing.

- trr



May 19, 2013 at 03:23 PM
mirrorrim
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p.1 #4 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


Well, as I said I did coordinate with them for most everything, and it was only when the couple decided to do something fun that a videographer would immediately run in front. I would be standing there ready for my shot, I knew where the videographers were so I thought I was okay and all I was waiting for was the couple to kiss/laugh/hug/celebrate/etc and before it would happen the guy would be in front of me.

For example, there was a German tradition of sawing wood together. Me and the videographers are all fine working together as they saw, and we are all waiting for the moment when the piece of wood is sawed off and when it happens--BAM!--there's the video guy blocking everything as the couple throws their hands in the air in victory. They could have gotten that whole thing if they had stayed alongside me instead of running in to do the swinging shot. What would you do/say if that happened to you? Like I said, I did talk to them about staying out of each other's way and that I would do my best to get my shot and get out...in this case I was the only one attempting to not ruin another's shots. I mean I even asked them if my flash was messing up their shots, they said no but I told them I would space out my shots anyway to give them several seconds of key moments with no flash. I really did try to work with them!

Edited on May 19, 2013 at 03:55 PM · View previous versions



May 19, 2013 at 03:37 PM
julieawhitlock
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p.1 #5 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


From working with videographers and talking to them I think many have gotten that way because a lot of still photographers treat them like second class citizens and. Second priority and they think if they aren't aggressive they won't get their shots. And like any other humans, some a jerks. Haha. I always try to give them the message out front that I'm willing to co-operate and they don't need to be crazy. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I've put a clause in my contract too.


May 19, 2013 at 03:38 PM
paparazzinick
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p.1 #6 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


I never really understood why photographers try and plan for the weddings day and then get mad when their plans never work out?!?!?!

Wedding photography is capturing a special day for a bride and groom not for yourself and portfolio. Just capture the day as it happens and not try and plan for it. Plans never work. As for the videographers, the first time they were in your way; you needed to speak up. Its your own fault they ruined your whole day.

When I work with videographers I will tell them where I will be during the ceremony. Really, anything outside of the ceremony, you can use your feet to move to a new location. The formals and fun shots with the bride and groom and bridal party is your gig. They should never be in your way for that stuff. if they are, you need to rethink doing wedding photography.

I understand your frustrations and I am sorry if this feels like I am attacking you. Just speak up dude. Tell them whats up.



May 19, 2013 at 04:06 PM
mirrorrim
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p.1 #7 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


Thanks for the advice but I think you read way too much into what I was saying and added some of your own preconceptions...I never got mad or angry at them and planning together makes sense so everyone can get something. I just wanted to capture the moment, not "omg this will look amazing in my portfolio" and I'm not sure where you picked up on that. Same with the formal shots and rethinking wedding photography...

I did not directly say "hey, you just walked in front during that key moment and I missed my shot, please be careful or let me know what you want to do so I can plan accordingly." So that is my fault. I DID ask before each event what their plans were and told them what I would do. So..be more direct is what I'm getting from your post.



May 19, 2013 at 04:22 PM
maxwell1295
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p.1 #8 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


Touch base with the videographer at first sight....or before the wedding if possible. Let him know what you need and make sure you find out what he needs. Hopefully you will be able to work together and produce great photo and video for the client.

Every now and then you will run across a jerk who doesn't give a shit what you need and just does what he wants without consideration. A punch in the neck can usually take care of that...



May 19, 2013 at 04:58 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #9 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


RKTodd wrote:
Clients agree to inform both visual teams as to their priority (photo or video)


You shouldn't need this. Work together as if photo and video are equally important to the client. Which means you each have to compromise some from the way you'd shoot it if the other wasn't there.



May 19, 2013 at 08:37 PM
jmraso
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p.1 #10 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


D. Diggler wrote:
You shouldn't need this. Work together as if photo and video are equally important to the client. Which means you each have to compromise some from the way you'd shoot it if the other wasn't there.



Unless the client has a priority in which case someone has to yield otherwise the client´s priority is not taken in consideration



May 19, 2013 at 08:41 PM
 

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Mark_L
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p.1 #11 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


TRReichman wrote:
You have to remember that you can get snippets of what is happening 1/250th of a second at a time and get what you need and they have to get every second of it.


They really don't, most half decent wedding video rarely has takes longer than 3-4secs plus good video has a lot near, middle, far shots not spending the entire first dance rotating around the couple with a 35mm. Doing so when there is a photog there is just dbaggery plain and simple.

A common theme I have found for video guys here is that mostly don't really live and die to shoot weddings, most are frustrated filmmarkers who do weddings because it is easier to make bank (a bit like some fashion/beauty guys do weddings on the side for money). As such, they don't really care that much who they piss off.



May 19, 2013 at 09:10 PM
SLD
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p.1 #12 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


What you have experienced is NORMAl for a wedding day especially if there are three video guys running around.

The only thing you can do to get the shots you want------JUST BE MORE AGGRESSIVE, otherwise nothing can really help,

Good luck and cheers



May 19, 2013 at 10:02 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #13 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


jmraso wrote:
Unless the client has a priority in which case someone has to yield otherwise the client´s priority is not taken in consideration


I've been in many photo/video work environments and have never had a client volunteer a priority.



May 19, 2013 at 10:51 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #14 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


Do you bring it up during your consultations with your clients? That's a good time to ask if they are planning on having a videographer. It's also an appropriate time to discuss how they would like you to handle situations where both are vying for the same space at the same time. Does one coverage trump the other? Which takes priority? If stills take the priority ask them if they would communicate that to the videographers? If neither has priority then you just have to work the best you can within the situation.


May 20, 2013 at 01:38 AM
G-Gore
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p.1 #15 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


There is NO WAY to have two "directors" an the wedding day - one vendor has to give up his/her role. Me, personally, I'm happy to let the photog run the day, as my video style is strictly documentary.

But the best solution to this is to get your own video team, and offer both services to your clients. Then you can coordinate work of the whole team (photo and video) much more easier.



May 20, 2013 at 03:44 AM
iunknown2008
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p.1 #16 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


Best solution is to network with video teams you like to work with. These guys sound green and your going to run into guys that are still learning from time to time.

I go up to the photographer on every gig, make sure to let him know that I understand that he is priority, and that I'm looking to coordinate shots so we both get decent coverage.

Trust me, it goes both ways. I add in my contract that video needs 10 minutes with the couple to get my portrait shots. Photographer took up 50 minutes with the couple and the two minutes I got with them, they were fed up with the cameras at that point. So I've got to figure out how to deal with the photographer on the next gig. Maybe I need to add in my contract that I get the first ten minutes.



May 20, 2013 at 04:27 AM
cineski
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p.1 #17 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


I disagree. I've worked on some mega weddings where there's 5 videographers and 4 photographers (plus assistants). It definitely helps when the crews have worked together before. But the photographer generally has the lead and the good videographers will come up with things between the photographer's directions.

G-Gore wrote:
There is NO WAY to have two "directors" an the wedding day - one vendor has to give up his/her role. Me, personally, I'm happy to let the photog run the day, as my video style is strictly documentary.

But the best solution to this is to get your own video team, and offer both services to your clients. Then you can coordinate work of the whole team (photo and video) much more easier.




May 22, 2013 at 12:37 PM
RKTodd
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p.1 #18 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


D. Diggler wrote:
You shouldn't need this. Work together as if photo and video are equally important to the client. Which means you each have to compromise some from the way you'd shoot it if the other wasn't there.



I make every effort to coordinate with videographers on the day, while keeping the desires of my clients in the back of my mind. In my area (according to my brides), videography always takes a back seat. The contract clause is mostly to make my brides aware that things can go wrong. Most don't even realize that we might be struggling for the same shot.



May 22, 2013 at 01:26 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.1 #19 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


RKTodd wrote:
"Videography - Clients agree that the Studio is not responsible for shots missed due to excessive videographer interference, including positioning or equipment. Photographers will make every reasonable effort to capture every image possible, but photographers cannot shoot through blockades of people or equipment. Clients agree to inform both visual teams as to their priority (photo or video) so each team can adjust their shooting style accordingly."

...from my contract.

-Randall


I would remove the word "excessive" from this clause, as it invites debate. Consider "obstruction" rather than "interference."

It's good to have a clause in the contract specifically identifying and limiting liability for likely obstructions such as this. But to the OP's question, which I think was really just a question of how to talk to and work with videographers, it's usually worthwhile to ask them specifically about their techniques, and when and how often they need to be within five or ten feet of the couple. That's specific enough to lead them to discuss this approach, and then you can agree to have at least a few moments without them swooping around to get a few good images before they start getting in the shot.

If you understand what they're trying to accomplish and show that you are familiar with their techniques, they're likely to be willing to work with you.



May 22, 2013 at 06:12 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #20 · Videographers and the "swing around the couple 2 ft away" shot. Advice?


iunknown2008 wrote:
I go up to the photographer on every gig, make sure to let him know that I understand that he is priority


Sounds like you have low self-esteem.



May 22, 2013 at 08:20 PM
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