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Archive 2013 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE
  
 
lostinjapan
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p.1 #1 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Hi All,

Regular, long time lurker very infrequent poster but I have run into a rather interesting opportunity and would be very grateful for the input.

A local shop which I have been doing business with for years, is closing their doors due to health problems. The owner gave me advanced warning and said come over and see if there was anything that I might want.

He has both a Canon 24mm TSE L II and a Zeiss 15mm ZE new in box. He has have given me right of first refusal on either of them at a way below average price. I can get one of them only, sadly I don't have them much free cash floating around or I would get them both.

Currently I have a Canon 17mm TSE and a Zeiss 21mm Distagon, both of which get used frequently. If I decide to pick up one of the lenses my friend is offering me I would have to let of these two go. The sale cost of either of these would more than cover the asking price for either of the lenses he is sellingl

If I may ask, what would you do? I could end of with two TSE lenses or two Zeiss lenses. Or I just walk away from them and keep what I have. Honestly not sure which is the better choice, both routes have pluses and minuses. All of them produce very good images.

My other lenses are a Zeiss ZE lenses, 35mm 1.4, 50mp, 85 planar, and the 100mp

Any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated, I have been tossing this about in my head for 24 hours and can't make up my mind. 90 percent of what I shoot is landscapes.

Regards.

Ryan



May 18, 2013 at 05:00 AM
redisburning
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p.1 #2 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I think it's fairly straightforward.

if you dont use the tilt/shift functionality much then sell the 17 tse and have the extra wideness from the 15 ZE.

if you love tilt/shift then sell the 21 distagon and get the 24 tse II.

if you sometimes use the tilt/shift, just buy the 15 as you appear to like the Zeiss look and sell after.



May 18, 2013 at 05:03 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #3 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Great opportunity for you!

I sold the ZE 21 and kept the 24 TS-E II. I recommend you do the same. The 24 is great with the 17. If you need wider, consider the bargain Samyang 14/2.8 for an additional. My ultra wide set-up is the Samyang 14, EF 15/2.8 FE, 16-35L II, 17 TS-E, and 24 TS-E II. That pretty well covers it all!

You are going to have better edge to edge sharpness and almost zero vignetting with the TS-E l lenses compared to the Zeiss.



May 18, 2013 at 05:46 AM
sirimiri
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p.1 #4 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Buy the 24 TS-E II, it is a jack-of-(nearly)-all-trades and has stunning color and close focus ability besides all the expected traits. When all is said and done it is doubtless one of the seminal lenses Canon have produced in the past ten years, easily.

I wish "good health" to the owner/employees of your local shop.

In Yakim's memory: Happy shooting.



May 18, 2013 at 06:22 AM
Thorsten
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p.1 #5 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I'd keep the two you have, especially as you use them a lot. The 17 TS is unique. I never found 14 or 15mm to be that useful without at least shift. Unless you enjoy crazy perspective distortions. The 21 is one of Zeiss best lenses and a legend. Of course the 24 TS is great, too, but at this length I often don't need T/S and a simple prime is faster to use.


May 18, 2013 at 06:56 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #6 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Thorsten wrote:
I'd keep the two you have, especially as you use them a lot. The 17 TS is unique. I never found 14 or 15mm to be that useful without at least shift. Unless you enjoy crazy perspective distortions. The 21 is one of Zeiss best lenses and a legend. Of course the 24 TS is great, too, but at this length I often don't need T/S and a simple prime is faster to use.

I agree having shift at 17 is much more handy than the extra wideness of the 15 without the shift. You can stitch to get the 15 usually if you need to. Unless you need the better wide open performance of the 15 I would stick with the 17. Although 24TS mk2 is very good, I like the extra wideness of the 21 and its Zeiss colors and micro contrast better.



May 18, 2013 at 10:36 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I'd sell the Zeiss 21mm and buy the TS-E 24/3.5L II. Like Jim (Gunzorro), I sold my ZE 21mm soon after getting the TS-E 24/3.5L II because they're so close in focal length, and I prefer images from the TS-E. I also have the TS-E 17/4L, ZE 18/3.5, and Samyang 14/2.8.


May 18, 2013 at 11:34 AM
carstenw
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p.1 #8 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I'll join those who say stick with what you have. I think you have the two most useful of the four lenses, with nice spacing.


May 18, 2013 at 11:47 AM
simonw
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p.1 #9 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Actually I'll go against the grain and say that currently the Zeiss15mm F2.8 ZE is my favourite lens.

I also have the Canon 14mm F2.8 L and the 24mm F3.5 TSE in their mark 2 versions and I found that once I had tested them out a couple of times none of the pictures I took with them got me in any way excited and I never bothered taking them out again. They just didn't have the magic for me.

You can compare that with my experience of the Zeiss. I was extremely wary of getting it after my experience of the Canon 14mm lens as it was hugely expensive and I thought come on, how often would I really use it?

Well I was wrong. The Zeiss 15mm has the magic of the 21mm Distagon. After seeing a few pictures I had taken from it the 15mm ZE changed the way I look at super wideangle lenses and it literally demanded time on my camera. I now need a very good reason to take it off my camera where I was expecting the opposite to be true.

A stellar performer from wide-open, really pure colours, non-existent colour fringing, superb construction. I'm hoping that the new 55mm F1.4 Distagon manages to clone the performance of the 15mm lens because that will be a sheer delight.

Cheers, Simon W.




May 18, 2013 at 12:31 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #10 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Buy all, test, sell on forum. Profit.


May 18, 2013 at 04:13 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



lostinjapan
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p.1 #11 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Thanks for all the helpful replies. I think I am going to sleep on it a couple of more days, my friend said he would hold them for me until the end of the week. I went out today and shot an equal amount with both the 21mm and the 17tse. I may keep what I have and then add an additional lens went I save up a little bit. But I do need to think about it some more.

Thanks very much.

Ryan



May 19, 2013 at 10:09 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #12 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


ZE 15 + 24L TS-E II

The 15 gives you the greater UWA Focal length than your current 17 TS-E.

As to dof (other reasons for owning TS) the longer 24 benefits from tilt more than a 17 does. While the 17 TS-E is certainly a lens that I'd like to try (I've not used yet), the need for a TS @ UWA (17) isn't as compelling to me as for a TS @ WA (24).

That being said ... how much is the difference in distortion/vignette between the ZE 15 vs. the 17 TS-E? Depending on your subjects/style, that might be something to consider. If it is a negligible distortion/vignette difference for your uses ... the ZE 15 + 24 TS-E II would be a strong contender for consideration.

Hard to go wrong with either. Although, the switch from ZE 21 to 24 TS-E II will be a slight drawing style diff, but the 24 TS-E II is tough to beat, imo.

Edited on May 19, 2013 at 02:42 PM · View previous versions



May 19, 2013 at 02:34 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #13 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I have owned the 17 TS-E for one week and am totally digging it...



May 19, 2013 at 02:38 PM
IndyFab
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p.1 #14 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


With the varying of opinions, I say buy both, explore them all, and keep the two that excited you the most, and sell off the other two. That wont be hard.


May 19, 2013 at 04:19 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #15 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I don't have the Zeiss 15 but the other 3 lenses. I would say it mostly depends on if you use tilt & shift a lot. If you do, go for the T&S lenses. If not, go for the Zeiss lenses. All four lenses are of course great so you can't go wrong whatever combo you choose


May 19, 2013 at 07:44 PM
kiddik
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p.1 #16 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I currently own TS-E 17, TS-E 24II and previously owned Z*21, and have experience of Z*15. I sold the Z*21 soon after getting the TS-E24II like so many others here, as the TS-E24II simply is better and more versatile (and I can't say I've missed Z*21 since other than for it's good looks and compactness compared to the TS-E). But while I think the TS-E17 is a one of a kind lens capable of stuff no other can, I feel it doesn't really match TS-E24II's ridicilious sharpness, and it doesn't take filters easily. I think the TSE24II is the best, all-round wide-angle available for 35mm format, bar none. The TS-E 17 is amazing though, and being able to shift both for stitching and fixing verticals is just priceless (can't say I've felt the need for tilting yet).

The Z*15 is just ridicilious as well, although I must admit that when I compared it to the venerable Samyang 14/2.8 I was surprised at just how good the Samyang was for the money, and felt hesitant about paying that much of a premium for the Z*15, but if you want the best then Z*15 is it. I didn't go for the Z*15 though, and wound up buying the TS-E 17 instead for it's capabilities.

My point... sigh, there is no point - all these lenses are awesome. But for me personally the benefits of the TS-E's outweigh anything the wonderful Zeiss primes have to offer. (I am a Zeiss aficionado in all other respects).

If anyone's interested, I have a few low-res field of view comparisons that I made in my office last christmas with Z*15 vs. TS-E 17 vertically and horizontally stitched. Please don't judge sharpness or anything else from these, these were just made to get a feeling for FOV and nothing else.

ZE 15/2.8:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80257/canon_17mmTS/z15_vs_tse17_z15.jpg

TS-E17 unstitched:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80257/canon_17mmTS/z15_vs_tse17_tse17.jpg

TS-E17 stitched vertically:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80257/canon_17mmTS/z15_vs_tse17_tse17_verticalstitch.jpg

TS-E17 stitched horizontally:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80257/canon_17mmTS/z15_vs_tse17_tse17_horizontalstitch.jpg



May 19, 2013 at 08:40 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #17 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


If you sell the 21mm for the 24 Canon TS, all your wide angle work will be made by Canon, for whom you rely on to produce images at not even one other focal length up to 100mm. That is pretty remarkable in itself. So - Canon output for ultra wide, everything else Zeiss.

My views on Canon lenses are known and I'll not labour them except to say that all a person has to do is look at equivalent Canon and Zeiss (or Leica) lenses on the same Canon body to see what's what. What Canon produces is in the lenses. So just one opinion: colour separation might not to be a high priority for Canon lens designers.

Based on what you use, you might be a person who looks for overall high impact, colour balance and high appeal in images. You simply have to decide what you really want, what is the priority..here is one way - take a look without bias at 'your best' 10-15 images shot with the two UWAs you have; then tally them up, see what falls out. If the Canon 17mm gets even close to the 21mm count, there is the answer.

In almost all respects the 15mm is the equal of the 21mm and in several it is better - lower distortion, more even across apertures, and its own kind of liquid clarity. Zeiss guaranteed MTF results for each one of the first release of these lenses...I figure if people don't have an emotional response to the images from the better modern Zeiss lenses (Like Simon above), they are candidates for OEM C/N lenses.

The 15mm is an expensive lens even for CZ, it will hold value extremely well and prob rise with new high Mp sensors, it lacks the fashionable bubble element (a design intent) and takes standard filters. The chance to get one for cheaper looks very good.

You could look thru' the 15mm CZ thread, and I just saw two threads for the 17mm TS lens in the (foreign to me) Canon forum, one surprisingly about using these lenses with teleconverters.



May 19, 2013 at 10:40 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #18 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Phillip -- Everyone has an opinion on the Zeiss vs. Canon. I'm on the other side of the issue, preferring the look of the 17 TS-E to the ZE 21/2.8, and the 24 TS-E is even better for me. Kiddik's three shot pano says it all if you want w-i-d-e, blows the 15mm out of the water in either orientation.

One of my least liked aberrations is light fall-off (vignetting), second is sharpness loss on sides/corners, and for the prices charged, I can't forgive Zeiss for the abundance of both those flaws in its WA lenses. Since these Canon TS-E lenses are virtually free of these factors, I naturally gravitate that direction. Throw in the build quality and movements and it is no comparison.

Others may find features they prefer about Zeiss, and that is completely understandable, especially for different types of subjects I might pursue compared to them.



May 20, 2013 at 12:15 AM
simonw
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p.1 #19 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone accuse the Zeiss 21mm and 15mm lens of losing sharpness in the corners in 'abundance'. In fact I would say they are both extremely sharp, surely among the very best available.

Regarding vignetting both the Zeiss lenses are F2.8 and as you stop down to match the Canon 17mm TSE @ F4 and the 24mm TSE @ F3.5 the vignetting disappears rapidly.

As for build quality the Canon 24mm TSE that I own has a very 'gritty' feel when focussing and for a lens this expensive why are they silk screening the type on the barrel instead of engraving it?

Cheers, Simon W.



May 20, 2013 at 11:06 AM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #20 · Canon 17mm TSE, 24mm TSE vs Zeiss 15mm ZE, 21mm ZE


Read this review of the Zeiss 18 as it shows comparison pics with the 17 TSE. The 17 TSE more than holds its own.

http://macdanzigphotography.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/zeiss-18mm-distagon-review/

The downside to the 17 TSE is its price and the big front element that makes it a major chore to use filters. The upside is great IQ, virtually no CA, obvious tilt & shift, super easy three image stitching and the surprising ability to still get really good results using a Canon 1.4x tele converter (produces a 23.8mm image).

Some landscape shooters might want to skip a lens like the 17 TSE. I shoot quite a lot of interiors. The first time I set this lens up and shifted downwards to reduce the heavy expanse of ceiling I was hooked. Even landscapers who shoot a lot of trees will like the shift capability while still recording a super wide image with trees growing vertically. My main problem with this lens is that I now want the 24 TSE II.



May 20, 2013 at 02:05 PM
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