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Archive 2013 · sports photo usage question
  
 
MikeW2
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · sports photo usage question


I'm not sure where else to pose this question.

A local restaurant wants about twenty of my sports photos for a mural dedicated to the local school. How is this going to work? I'm not profiting (at least monetary) from this but will the restaurant or myself still need any permission from the subjects? I know when I sell images to a magazine I get permission if the subject can be recognized.

Thanks.

Edited on May 14, 2013 at 07:40 PM · View previous versions



May 14, 2013 at 05:12 PM
jspytek
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · sports photo usage question


Not profiting from this! You should get free food for a year or something like that! Don't give your work away for free. I'm partly joking, as I don't know the entire situation.

Make sure you get your name on them or a full one dedicated to your business.




May 14, 2013 at 05:44 PM
P Alesse
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · sports photo usage question


MikeW2 wrote:
I'm not sure where else to pose this question.

A local restaurant wants about twenty of my sports photos for a mural dedicated to the local school. How is this going to work? I'm not profiting from this but will the restaurant or myself still need any permission from the subjects? I know when I sell images to a magazine I get permission if the subject can be recognized.

Thanks.


Why wouldn't it be be appropriate to be compensated? Are they not looking to attract more local customers by your photography decore and would they not be consequently profiting by those additional customerrs? I have heard this all before and it gets the hair on my back to stand up. You want to give away your work for free to further devalue our industry and ask for our help in doing it. Sorry, but you won't get any help from me. I won't have a hand in my own funeral.

And unlike the last response, no, I'm not joking!



May 14, 2013 at 06:02 PM
MikeW2
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · sports photo usage question


P Alesse wrote:
it gets the hair on my back to stand up.


I feel ya. But you don't know the whole situation. And ya, I'm working on the food compensation.



May 14, 2013 at 06:15 PM
James Broome
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · sports photo usage question


This is probably the third or fourth thread on this same EXACT topic that I've seen. Bennigan's or Applebee's wants to attract the local high school kids and their families and looks to accomplish that by securing the work of the local school photographer for little or no financial compensation.

Win for them. Lose for the shooter.



May 14, 2013 at 06:38 PM
James Broome
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · sports photo usage question


Sorry - I didn't answer your question.

This isn't editorial usage, so yes, model releases will be needed.



May 14, 2013 at 06:41 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · sports photo usage question


Will Work for "Hooters"... and of course the food...


May 14, 2013 at 06:45 PM
MikeW2
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · sports photo usage question


James Broome wrote:
Bennigan's or Applebee's wants to attract the local high school kids and their families



The problem I see is "parentographers". They're the reason the local newspaper, who doesn't care about quality photos, won't pay me anymore. I won't give away one image to them.



May 14, 2013 at 06:50 PM
MikeW2
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · sports photo usage question


Just received this in an email.

Donations? Really?


"We generally work on donation for the images we collect, but we have on occasion give the photographer a credit line, or a small fee for images used.

Please let me know what your expectations might be. I'll see if I can accomodate them.

Thanks!"



May 14, 2013 at 06:52 PM
MikeW2
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · sports photo usage question


James Broome wrote:
Sorry - I didn't answer your question.

This isn't editorial usage, so yes, model releases will be needed.



Even as a "display or exhibit"? It is technically not for advertisement or marketing. Hmmm.



May 14, 2013 at 07:00 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Scott Sewell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · sports photo usage question


MikeW2 wrote:
I feel ya. But you don't know the whole situation. And ya, I'm working on the food compensation.



That's the issue with most of these kinds of posts. First, if photographers were being compensated for images in examples like this they wouldn't be coming here asking these kinds of questions. And "compensation" can take just about any form, it doesn't always have to be cash (although generally that's the cleanest and easiest way to do things!). Second, when people make posts like this they often leave out a lot of important information. Not trying to beat you up, but if you won't tell us the "whole situation", you can't really expect more help than what you've been given so far.

Based on the info presented, I totally concur with Paul.



May 14, 2013 at 07:19 PM
Scott Sewell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · sports photo usage question


MikeW2 wrote:
... It is technically not for advertisement or marketing. Hmmm.



Sure it is!! Call it a display, exhibit or whatever you want, but it is without a doubt marketing. It's part of the look and way they present their business to clients. There's no other way to look at it.



May 14, 2013 at 07:22 PM
MikeW2
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · sports photo usage question


Scott Sewell wrote:
Not trying to beat you up,



That's alright. I probably deserve it. Maybe a nuclear bomb should find this thread. I apologize.

I won't give them the images without anything in return.

The rest of the story is that one of the ahtletes is my wife's star pupil that she coached to multiple state championships. If this wall of photos is done without a photo of her my wife will disown me. No biggie I guess. I'll get what I want (lots of food!) or this won't happen.

Now the releases are a whole different can of worms. I know they have already received other photos without them.



May 14, 2013 at 07:53 PM
dmwierz
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · sports photo usage question


I got a request a couple years ago from the father of a third string/back-up QB at a local Division 1 football program (the one with the Golden Dome) telling me he noticed I had taken photo's of his son's only starting game in his 4 years at the school, vs USC. He told me an Applebee's in this kid's home town was going to do a tribute to him in a corner of the restaurant and he wanted some photo's of his boy playing QB in college to go along with those he had of him in high school and earlier. I told him I'd be willing to license 5 images to him for single use, but that I needed permission (in writing) from the school, a release from him personally (his son was still legally a minor) and that I would expect compensation (I named my price, and it wasn't dirt cheap), as well as a small engraved plaque with my name and phone number on it as credited photographer placed at the bottom of the main image. The dad contacted the school and received appropriate permission (and provided it to me, naming me, in writing), signed a release for his boy, wrote me the check, I provided the images, and sure enough, when I stopped by this particular Applebee's during a business trip last year, there were my images along with a1x2 engraved badge with my name and phone number. I haven't received any leads from this, but all in all, I was satisfied with the transaction, and to echo STRONGLY what has been said above, why SHOULDN'T you be paid for your work?


May 14, 2013 at 08:12 PM
shaneroper
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · sports photo usage question


For what it's worth, I just recently sold about 11 images to apple's thru a third party. They paid close to 900.00 for those images. When they purchased them, they only purchased personal use release for them. It was written into the contract that if they use for commercial use, THEY must obtain a model release that one does not accompany the photos and in addition they must have a commercial release from me if they are used for commercial use and photos may not be sold to a third party. I feel safe in that if they do something that is considered commercial that I will then be able to sue them because they did not get the releases necessary if anything is every questioned. They paid without hesitation once I negotiated everything. May not help but..They did ask if I wanted photo credit on the pictures, I told them I didn't require it. (I am moving from this local area so won't do me any good).



May 15, 2013 at 02:34 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · sports photo usage question


I tend to agree with Shane and MikeW2 that hanging he photos one one wall in one Applebee's is Not commercial use. The photos are sold as 'art' where the players image is not endorsing any product, being hung on private property, etc and would not require Waiver. Just my two cents and non legal professional opinion. I would certainly in the transaction however, explicitly state that it is their responsibility to obtain any waivers necessary and that they are not for commercial use.


May 15, 2013 at 03:16 AM
sivrajbm
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · sports photo usage question


I had a Applebee's contact me for some photos last year. First they tried to get me to donate them saying that's how they get the bulk of their student photos. Then they offer a pittance, saying they might have another source. Then when they called back it was just a meager increase I just said no thanks.


May 16, 2013 at 11:33 PM
Monkey Falls
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · sports photo usage question


To answer the OP's question, as I understand it, the entity that displays the images is ultimately responsible for the model release. As a courtesy, the photographer can obtain it, but it is not his/her legal duty.


May 17, 2013 at 02:56 AM
RyanL
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · sports photo usage question


If these were my images, and a local restaurant (Not a chain). I might offer to do a 24x48 mural for them. But it would still be mine, and they wouldn't be keeping it. My company would be the center of attention on that image (I'm talking 8" letters across the middle with my company name, so the dishwasher in the back of the place can see it!) I would consider it as an advertisement, and write it off as such. In no way would they be doing as they please with my images, and giving me a photo credit in 6pt font.

If this is an Applebees, or large chain. They have money...but from the sounds of it they aren't paying you for it.



May 17, 2013 at 03:33 PM
ahender
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · sports photo usage question


MikeW2 wrote:
The problem I see is "parentographers". They're the reason the local newspaper, who doesn't care about quality photos, won't pay me anymore. I won't give away one image to them.


Seems to me providing a free image with attribution would be better advertising that not providing an image and receiving no attribution.

As for parents. I'm one of those parents every "pro" hates for taking pictures. I love taking pictures of my daughter's team. I've been doing it for 10 years.

If I did not provide an image, there would be no image in the paper.




Mar 14, 2014 at 01:25 AM
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