Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              5      
6
       7       8       9       end
  

Archive 2013 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!
  
 
Pixel Perfect
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #1 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


PetKal wrote:
However, I'd advise restraint regarding this lens purchase.



Yes, so you can get to the front of the queue



May 14, 2013 at 11:20 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #2 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!





May 14, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Roland W
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #3 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


First off, please note that this a different "Roland" posting than the one mentioned earlier in this thread. But since I have had the 200-400 on pre order for over two years, and expect to take delivery of one in the next several weeks, perhaps I can still serve to tip the scales a little for PetKal in his consideration of getting one. After all, you can not usually get the proper and optimum number of pixels per duck unless you are shooting with a high quality zoom lens.

One thing that strikes me as interesting about this lens, and that does not seem to have been mentioned much, is the very close minimum focusing distance. Compared to the 500 II and 600 II, this baby will focus at about half the minimum distance. And when you couple that with a zoom to allow better framing of subjects, the world of long lens close focus is even more exciting. Perhaps we will soon be talking about the pixels per duck head, rather than the pixels per whole duck.

I continue to lament the budget related grounding of all the important US military flight teams and single ship performance teams, and the cancelation of most of this years military air shows. For me the 200-400 was going to add a whole dimension to my shooting of air shows with their fast changing subject distances, and the lack of that shooting this year did give me pause on if I should proceed with the lens. But I have decided to forge ahead and get one anyway, and it will serve my long lens needs in a variety of different situations. And here is hoping that US airshows make a comeback in the future, hopefully by next year.

The price of the 200-400 is indeed high, but for me I think the value is there as a combination of all the many things this lens should deliver. There is always a worry about if it does not live up to expectations in one or more areas, but I will live with the risk of that. Because it has been so long in coming to market, and because it seems to have gone through a lot of evaluation and limited re-design, I expect it to be about as close to perfect as any new product can be. Just like Canon really delivered with the 1DX, I think they will with this too, and the combination of a 200-400 and a 1DX should prove to be very powerful.

One thing I am confused about still is if the 200-400 can actually accept a Canon extender. Early descriptions of the lens from back over a year ago clearly mentioned that you could not install a Canon extender because the rear opening was too small. I am now seeing "reports" of using an extender with the current prototype lenses that some users have had a chance to shoot with, and hope they are accurate. I would rarely need the reach for what I shoot, but a 400-800 f8 zoom with autofocus and usable optical quality would add yet another layer of versatility to its list of features and uses. My Canon 2X III stands ready to see if it fits on, and if the combination functions reasonably well with the 1DX.


Edited on May 14, 2013 at 11:28 PM · View previous versions



May 14, 2013 at 11:22 PM
mitesh
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #4 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


Roland, both Holko and Rouse have written about having successfully used an external Canon TC with the lens.


May 14, 2013 at 11:27 PM
burningheart
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #5 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


PetKal wrote:
However, I'd advise restraint regarding this lens purchase.


I will use the same restraint techniques I used when the 800 was released.

I just wonder does Amex have the same front of the line benefits for a lens as they have with concert tickets.



May 14, 2013 at 11:32 PM
arbitrage
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #6 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


On the subject of additional TCs, it is interesting to read how strongly Mr. Rouse hates 2.0xTCs. In his review he states that adding the 1.4TC and then using that with the internal 1.4 is much better than adding a 2.0 and not using the internal 1.4 (both getting you almost equal focal lengths). This probably makes some sense for this unique situation as the internal 1.4 TC is very specifically designed for this lens and the external 1.4 always has advantages over a 2.0.

Personally, I've been very happy with the AF using the 2.0TCIII on my 600II. So I'm not sure why he is so negative about it in general for all of his big lenses??



May 14, 2013 at 11:40 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #7 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


arbitrage wrote:
On the subject of additional TCs, it is interesting to read how strongly Mr. Rouse hates 2.0xTCs. In his review he states that adding the 1.4TC and then using that with the internal 1.4 is much better than adding a 2.0 and not using the internal 1.4 (both getting you almost equal focal lengths). This probably makes some sense for this unique situation as the internal 1.4 TC is very specifically designed for this lens and the external 1.4 always has advantages over a 2.0.

Personally, I've been very happy with the AF using the 2.0TCIII on my 600II. So I'm
...Show more

I agree, the new 500 II and 600 II work well with 2xTC MkIII.
However, 300 II and 400 II work unexpectedly nicely with 2xTC MkIII.



May 15, 2013 at 12:01 AM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #8 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


saneproduction wrote:
Are you getting one Peter? I wouldn't think so as this seems targeted at sports shooters.


Mike, not likely, I really do not need it, although as a collector one needs at least one of each.
BTW, I am sorry to hear that you have sold your 200 f/1.8 ?



May 15, 2013 at 12:45 AM
dehowie
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #9 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


Looking at Andy's images taken with the 200-400 or 200-560 as he calls it i can see why he loves it.
Prime sharpness with zoom flexibility.
It looks like some lens.
Im sure its not for everyone with many saying you cant handhold a 300/2.8 or 500F4 but for shooting that doesnt require 2.8 may be the pinnacle lens now in the 200-600 range.
Weight,flexibility and sharpness what else do you need?



May 15, 2013 at 01:09 AM
NCAndy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #10 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


dehowie wrote:
Looking at Andy's images taken with the 200-400 or 200-560 as he calls it i can see why he loves it.
Prime sharpness with zoom flexibility.
It looks like some lens.
Im sure its not for everyone with many saying you cant handhold a 300/2.8 or 500F4 but for shooting that doesnt require 2.8 may be the pinnacle lens now in the 200-600 range.
Weight,flexibility and sharpness what else do you need?


lol, I need a lower price, for one.



May 15, 2013 at 01:12 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



deepbluejh
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #11 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


Most working professional photographers are not wealthy. In fact, the average income (profit) of a professional photographer is just under $50k per year. A $12k lens takes a HUGE chunk of their profit and is cost prohibitive for most people. I am a full time working professional photographer and I speak from experience. Heck, I make more than average and even I think twice about adding a $2k lens to my lineup. A $12k 2x zoom lens is nothing but interesting trivia to me.

It's an entirely different story when we are talking about large corporations (Nat Geo, Sports Illustrated, ESPN) who buy gear for their photographers. In this case the pro photographer isn't paying anything for the lens. Instead, they are just using the gear their employer buys for them. I suspect that a large portion of these lenses will be sold in this manner.

mitesh wrote:
From a hobbyists point of view, that's likely very true. But remember, it's been positioned all along as a lens for professionals. For those individuals (and even hobbyists/gear heads with means), there are several differentiating factors between the two:

1. Newer 4-stop IS system
2. Faster, more responsive AF
3. Built-in TC
4. Top notch IQ
5. Better weather sealing and no push-pull
6. Much more complex engineering which obviously results in higher cost

If you're shooting for NatGeo, those things are likely well worth it. Don't forget that you can't compare the "old" design of the 100-400 with this one. Any potentially new iteration of
...Show more



May 15, 2013 at 02:02 AM
Imagemaster
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #12 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


deepbluejh wrote:
A $12k 2x zoom lens is nothing but interesting trivia to me.


So don't buy it then. Those that use a zoom lens as several lenses and want or need that versatility will buy it, be they corporations or individuals.



May 15, 2013 at 02:18 AM
mitesh
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #13 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


deepbluejh wrote:
It's an entirely different story when we are talking about large corporations (Nat Geo, Sports Illustrated, ESPN) who buy gear for their photographers. In this case the pro photographer isn't paying anything for the lens. Instead, they are just using the gear their employer buys for them. I suspect that a large portion of these lenses will be sold in this manner.


Perhaps I should have been more specific in my definition of pro, but what you describe above is what I meant . I agree that is the primary target market.



May 15, 2013 at 02:22 AM
deepbluejh
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #14 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


Imagemaster wrote:
So don't buy it then. Those that use a zoom lens as several lenses and want or need that versatility will buy it, be they corporations or individuals.


For what it's worth, I also think the 24-70/4 L IS has a silly high price tag. Sadly, I think this is going to be an ongoing trend with Canon in the future.

Good thing Sigma has been stepping up their game lately.



May 15, 2013 at 02:44 AM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #15 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


Fred Miranda wrote:
Will Canon upgrade the current super telephoto line with a similar built-in extender down the road?
Maybe they will perfect the "DO" technology and give us a 500 and 600mm f/4 DO IS with Internal 1.4x extenders!


This has got to be a certainty since how else can Canon beat Nikon to the punch and one-up their recent 800mm offering by being the first to offer a super-tele above $20,000 US?


PetKal wrote:
I might have some more info in a couple of days.
However, I'd advise restraint regarding this lens purchase.

* It's a brand new design, not following any older path of succession.
* It's a very complex design, optically as well as mechanically.
* It would appear that there has been a relatively recent (post Olympiad) redesign effort dedicated to trimming the lens weight. It may well be that the pre-production units weighed close to 4 kg.
* The lens introduction delays might have been caused by major design, parts supply or fabrication problems. Some of those problems (or their solutions) could still linger in
...Show more

As Roland already pointed out, the 1DX had a fairly prolonged release period and turned out to be pretty much 100% from first release. Here's hoping the 200-400 will be the same!

BTW, my understanding is the zoom will be slightly less than the 600 II Canadian CPS price...


deepbluejh wrote:
Most working professional photographers are not wealthy. In fact, the average income (profit) of a professional photographer is just under $50k per year. A $12k lens takes a HUGE chunk of their profit and is cost prohibitive for most people. I am a full time working professional photographer and I speak from experience. Heck, I make more than average and even I think twice about adding a $2k lens to my lineup. A $12k 2x zoom lens is nothing but interesting trivia to me.

It's an entirely different story when we are talking about large corporations (Nat Geo, Sports Illustrated, ESPN)
...Show more

I've generally owned each of my super-teles for about 10 years and expect similar with the 200-400. The cost naturally is one that is spread out over that period. Unless the lens is a total write off at time of replacement, you'll never lose the full purchase value. From my point of view, it will replace three tele primes, which combined would cost more than double the zoom to replace. It will also reduce my annual insurance costs somewhat.



May 15, 2013 at 06:04 AM
saneproduction
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #16 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


PetKal wrote:
Mike, not likely, I really do not need it, although as a collector one needs at least one of each.
BTW, I am sorry to hear that you have sold your 200 f/1.8 ?


I was sorry to sell it but something had to shake up because of my work. I really needed a 70-200 II and my 24-70 II has been so good, I just had to jump in. I got a good sale price that I couldn't pass up and am "replacing" my 200 1.8 with the 70-200 II and $1000+ that I really needed for cash flow opitimization. I will get another 200 1.8 someday, but it will be an excellent condition lens with hood. Never did get a hood for mine, but made one out of black posterboard and paper tape. I may also decide to go for a 300 2.8 IS I (II is a long shot) instead as that lens has really intrigued me for some time and does not fit in my kit with a 200 1.8L (400 is much more likely in that case and those lenses are quite heavy). Seems like 24-70 II, 70-200 II, 300 II plus 24 through 85L is a better option. May also sell my 24 through 85 also and just keep the 50L but I get lots of rentals on them for cinema work that would be hard to let go. My Zeiss 100 MP is the one I want to sell, but the resale is terrible with that lens for some reason (low prices and little interest). Wish I bought it used as depreciation is barely offset with rentals.

The 200-400 intrigues me for sure as it seems like a great option paired with my other zooms. I would never ever be able to buy an $11k lens though, so the point is pointless. Maybe when I retire



May 15, 2013 at 08:02 AM
willis
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #17 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


I wont be buying but looks really nice. I'd be a bit disappointed its not lighter if I were considering buying one.
I'm surprised at Andy Rouse's opinions on 2X teleconverters. While AF speed suffers, optically they give amazing results with my Mk II superteles. I think on the 5DIII with new firmware the 500f4II at 1000mm f8 may be even better than my 300 II at 600mm, albeit with significantly slower AF.



May 15, 2013 at 09:12 AM
Bones74
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #18 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


PetKal wrote:
As a general rule, whenever their products experience unduely lengthy/expensive development, companies begin to exert increasing pressure on the technical staff to "get the products out". The initial development quest towards product excellence/perfection thus gradually mutates into the "Is it good enough ?" dilemma. That kinda process sometimes results in very premature product release/introduction and sales.



This lens has had an Black Alpine Salamander like gestation period... if it's not right by now then it will never be right Mr Rouse did say the copy he used worked flawlessly since he got it and that guy treats kit like crap.



May 15, 2013 at 06:21 PM
Scott Stoness
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #19 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


I pre-ordered. the 200-400. Advice was stock may be available in late may and I am within the first 20 preorders for Canada but its not clear how many are going to come to Canada in late may.

Petkal probably has 10 of these pre-ordered with all his calls to dealers in Ontario so maybe 20 means 10.

My rationale is:
1) I am not pro but I want it. I can afford it. I will sell my 500 v1 thats just collecting dust with my 600 usually in my car.
2) Some guys have affairs at my age in costs them millions
3) Some guys buy porches/lambordinies and they depreciate by $100 just as they drive them off the lot
4) Some guys spend $30k on trips to shoot and stuff a bear.
5) My wife bought a watch that was more expensive than this 6 months ago. I suspect her earrings are more too.

I would appreciate your affirmation of the above.



May 15, 2013 at 06:34 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #20 · Official: Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS 1.4X released!


Scott Stoness wrote:
I pre-ordered. the 200-400. Advice was stock may be available in late may and I am within the first 20 preorders for Canada but its not clear how many are going to come to Canada in late may.

Petkal probably has 10 of these pre-ordered with all his calls to dealers in Ontario so maybe 20 means 10.

My rationale is:
1) I want it. I can afford it. I will sell my 500 v1 thats just collecting dust with my 600 usually in my car.
2) Some guys have affairs at my age in costs them millions
3) Some guys
...Show more

Sophistry, except for 1).

With respect to 5) i prefer not to affirm how well i know your wife, her watch or her earrings



May 15, 2013 at 06:49 PM
1       2       3              5      
6
       7       8       9       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              5      
6
       7       8       9       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password