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Archive 2013 · Very little coverage

  
 
ricardovaste
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p.1 #1 · Very little coverage


This year I've had a few requests for 'just ceremony & some of family after the service'. To me, it appears they're looking for very little photography and are looking to pay very little as well. To them, I imagine it seems like they're asking for something very simple, perhaps quite traditional, so it should be easy and inexpensive.

I've done 3-4 hour coverage a couple of times and things can feel quite rushed. It also feels like there is so much more potential from the day. That, combined with lower pay, leaves me feeling rather unsatisfied.

I wonder how you guys approach it. Do you just pick a figure you 'feel' like you're happy with for say a couple of hours on a wedding day, and work around that when discussing their needs. Or do you try and demonstrate the value in having you there for longer? I've tried the latter, not in a pushy way at all, and people just don't seem interested in what it can give them (or rather, one of them does, one of them doesn't).

I've stopped 'advertising' such coverage as such, but still get people asking, so I'm trying to work out a more positive way of approaching them.

Thanks



May 13, 2013 at 12:01 PM
amonline
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p.1 #2 · Very little coverage


I think these inquiries are a regular occurrence for nearly anyone who's been in the business a while. The focus of your role should be to analyze their schedule and find out if it's a valid request, or if there is value in additional coverage time. I'd say that maybe 1 out of 5 of these types of requests are valid in my area, and I am honest about that with the client. However, those other 4 times, I explain the value of proper coverage. 9 times out of ten, those other 4 book more hours upon my advice and explanation. I couldn't begin to tell you how many of these 3-4 hour inquiries I turn into full-day coverage, but it's a huge ratio. I wouldn't cut the possibility through pre-qualification as you are suggesting; but rather ensure I'm given a chance to "upgrade" those inquiries.


May 13, 2013 at 12:18 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #3 · Very little coverage


amonline wrote:
I think these inquiries are a regular occurrence for nearly anyone who's been in the business a while. The focus of your role should be to analyze their schedule and find out if it's a valid request, or if there is value in additional coverage time. I'd say that maybe 1 out of 5 of these types of requests are valid in my area, and I am honest about that with the client. However, those other 4 times, I explain the value of proper coverage. 9 times out of ten, those other 4 book more hours upon my advice and
...Show more

Interesting, thank you!

I can say I've turned a number of 6-7 hour coverage into 10-14 hour. But I don't think that's the same thing, as these are people that are generally always wanting the "full" coverage from the beginning, but don't have any idea what their schedule is (I won't go into that as that would take us OT).

The three hour wedding I did, they genuinely had a very tight budget and hired very few people for the day (a lot of DIY etc). The four hour wedding, I'm not sure really, they both had good jobs so I don't doubt they could afford me, but I could only convince one of them (the groom). They were all very lovely people...

Earlier in the year I had some mentioning that there was no "formal reception". I wonder if people are put off by the emphasis on luxurious venues? I don't focus on this, but it's certainly there.

I think I may be skipping too many steps and jumping to the price when these come in...



May 13, 2013 at 12:35 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #4 · Very little coverage


Allow me to give you an example. This is the sort of thing I struggle with. Reading it now I almost feel like "maybe I'm just not the right person for them", but it feels a bit defeatist. They're basically asking for portraits & groups, which I show little / none of on my website.


Dear Photog,
W'ere looking for someone to take photographs at our wedding. We're just looking to take a couple of us and our wedding party after our ceremony. We're wondering if you could tell us how much this may be?
Thank you,
B&G



May 13, 2013 at 12:38 PM
TRReichman
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p.1 #5 · Very little coverage


ricardovaste wrote:
Allow me to give you an example. This is the sort of thing I struggle with. Reading it now I almost feel like "maybe I'm just not the right person for them", but it feels a bit defeatist. They're basically asking for portraits & groups, which I show little / none of on my website.


So why do you think they want to hire you?

- trr



May 13, 2013 at 01:09 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #6 · Very little coverage


TRReichman wrote:
So why do you think they want to hire you?

- trr


Because they're randomly contacting loads of photographers in the area? Because they've seen something, like it and would like it to fit into what they want?



May 13, 2013 at 01:13 PM
Prettym1k3
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p.1 #7 · Very little coverage


I believe talking schedules with couples, first and foremost, is helpful. Get an idea for their day. They are looking to potentially hire YOU, the professional, so make a recommendation. Don't be a scumbag and try to sell them a 12 hour package when they only need 8. This helps build trust, gets you a longer day than the 3-4 hour shoot-and-leave setup. You make more. They get what they want. And you've built a relationship with them to help them trust you when it comes to romantic and intimate portraits.

We don't shoot anything less than 6 hours. 6 hours is a good amount of time provided the schedule is spot on. I prefer 8. And I don't hesitate to tell people that we don't do less than 6, and that we feel that anything less than 6 is, at best, missing some key moments, and at worst, missing LOTS of key moments.

Educate your clients. It's your job.



May 13, 2013 at 02:32 PM
CMB Photo
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p.1 #8 · Very little coverage


this thread had helped me to reilize where I wanna be:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1200247/0



May 13, 2013 at 02:35 PM
myam203
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p.1 #9 · Very little coverage


I'm new to weddings, but as I book them more and more, I see my weekends slipping away and realize that I need to make a minimum amount per wedding (obviously). However, the hours per wedding are less important to me than the fact that I'm removing a day from my calendar, so however little coverage they want, they will still have to pay at least $xxxx.xx in order to book me.


May 13, 2013 at 05:52 PM
Inku Yo
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p.1 #10 · Very little coverage


A wedding day is a wedding day, whether it's 4 hours of coverage or 10 hours of coverage. I'm devoting the whole day to their wedding, where I can't book another gig.


May 13, 2013 at 07:17 PM
amonline
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p.1 #11 · Very little coverage


Agreed, and I should have added that I only take under 8 hours Monday through Thursday. (non holidays)


May 13, 2013 at 08:48 PM
Scott Mosher
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p.1 #12 · Very little coverage


I've done some weddings at the nearest LDS Temple. On some occasions the B&G will be coming from far away. They'd hire me (or someone else) to photograph them after the ceremony for an hour or two, then head back to where they're from for the reception with another photographer.


May 14, 2013 at 12:05 AM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #13 · Very little coverage


Prettym1k3 wrote:
I believe talking schedules with couples, first and foremost, is helpful. Get an idea for their day. They are looking to potentially hire YOU, the professional, so make a recommendation. Don't be a scumbag and try to sell them a 12 hour package when they only need 8. This helps build trust, gets you a longer day than the 3-4 hour shoot-and-leave setup. You make more. They get what they want. And you've built a relationship with them to help them trust you when it comes to romantic and intimate portraits.

We don't shoot anything less than 6 hours. 6 hours
...Show more

You see this is what I kind of feel like doing. Saying "6 hour minimum", or something to that effect. Or something like "you can have me for the day at X price". But when someone comes in and says 'we just want a couple of photographs' they're clearly expecting and wanting to pay very little, so it just feels like an uphill battle.

Perhaps if I enforce a longer 'minimum hours' I will force people to look more closely. Or run away. Perhaps the way I structure things isn't great though, as what I need to make is based around 10 hours coverage, so even if I start giving out 6-8 hour coverage I'd be making some money but I'd have to make up for the rest in other areas.



May 14, 2013 at 05:54 AM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #14 · Very little coverage


myam203 wrote:
I'm new to weddings, but as I book them more and more, I see my weekends slipping away and realize that I need to make a minimum amount per wedding (obviously). However, the hours per wedding are less important to me than the fact that I'm removing a day from my calendar, so however little coverage they want, they will still have to pay at least $xxxx.xx in order to book me.


Inku Yo wrote:
A wedding day is a wedding day, whether it's 4 hours of coverage or 10 hours of coverage. I'm devoting the whole day to their wedding, where I can't book another gig.


amonline wrote:
Agreed, and I should have added that I only take under 8 hours Monday through Thursday. (non holidays)


All very good points. If Saturdays, perhaps I should be more firm and say 'this is the point of entry and I'm going to be with you for a good while'.

The example I posted above actually was for a Saturday date. If they just want a 'couple of photographs' may be somewhat challenging...



May 14, 2013 at 05:58 AM
NYstyles
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p.1 #15 · Very little coverage


We all do what works for us. I can take a four hour, thats my minimum during peak season. Im only in my third season so Im not over 15 weddings and in demand like that yet. I have no kids, still a renter with all my util inc, I own my car, and my overhead is very minimal. I own everything for my business with the exception of using the Creative Cloud I pay monthly on. I made that way, if I cant just own it I dont buy it. Just like I sold my car payment car for one I owned.(oh how I do miss my car though! lol) I also have fill in income from graphic design work, frankly its been making me more lately!

Also for the first time in my life (almost 40) Ive had 'spousal' support so Ive relaxed a bit on what I can book this past year. Its a nice change. Very weird for me because Ive been so independent my whole life and built my business off my old waitress job...



May 14, 2013 at 07:34 AM
Prettym1k3
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p.1 #16 · Very little coverage


ricardovaste wrote:
You see this is what I kind of feel like doing. Saying "6 hour minimum", or something to that effect. Or something like "you can have me for the day at X price". But when someone comes in and says 'we just want a couple of photographs' they're clearly expecting and wanting to pay very little, so it just feels like an uphill battle.

Perhaps if I enforce a longer 'minimum hours' I will force people to look more closely. Or run away. Perhaps the way I structure things isn't great though, as what I need to make is based
...Show more

Knowing what you need to make, montearily speaking, is key to running your business. What are you costs? What is your overhead? How much time, total, will you spend per wedding (initial contact, phone, meetings, timeline formation, engagement session, editing, delivery, travel, wedding day shooting, editing, delivery, uploading, internet, computers, equipment, wear and tear, oil changes, gas, food, bandaids, batteries, and the list goes on and on).

But the more important question for me was, "What do I need to make it make it worth my while to be away from my family?" I already have a day job, and I miss tons of time with my son. Same with my wife. So if we're gone shooting on the weekends, proving to our son that to follow your dreams in your career is important, what do we need to make it put money towards child care, vacations, fun time, dinners out, taking him to the amusement park, and putting money aside for college and/or home repairs (to increase value on the home to use as equity when he goes to college).

Sorry, that was a little wordy, but once you calculate all of that out, you can show up to a wedding and know you didn't get ripped off.

I don't live off of my photography income, but I do need it. Childcare can't be paid by my wife's and my day jobs, so we need the income. But we don't go hungry with out. So that may change things for you. But I've always been of the opinion that I am offering what I feel is equitable (for both parties, myself and them), what is fair, what is reasonable, what is high quality, and what is joy-filled for both of us. And if they don't like what I'm offering, then I'm not the photographer for them. Plain and simple.



May 14, 2013 at 12:49 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #17 · Very little coverage


Prettym1k3 wrote:
you can show up to a wedding and know you didn't get ripped off


I work most weddings feeling I'm being ripped off.



May 14, 2013 at 01:11 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #18 · Very little coverage


Prettym1k3 wrote:
you can show up to a wedding and know you didn't get ripped off


I get your point. I certainly know what I need to make, but as you put it, it still comes down to a "feeling" in a way when we're talking about smaller jobs - eg: how much is it worth doing for yourself. I hope that makes sense, and doesn't seem like I'm back tracking over the point!

I do not have a family, but I certainly put great value on my time outside of my photography business. I'm not a 'all work and no play' person.



May 14, 2013 at 02:53 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #19 · Very little coverage


D. Diggler wrote:
I work most weddings feeling I'm being ripped off.


Dude, this needs to change! Unless you're joking, of course.



May 14, 2013 at 02:54 PM
HubbardJA
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p.1 #20 · Very little coverage


I don't understand why so many photographers will eagerly spend 8-10 hours second shooting for 300-400 bucks, yet balk at 2-6 hour primary jobs that couples are willing to pay much more for (1-2k).

I've taken a few 4-6 hour gigs this year (@ $300 / hr) and I walk away with half of my Saturday left over and an extra grand+ in my pocket.

I understand a full time wedding shooter needs more income to be sustainable, but if your part time why turn away easy money and keep part of your weekend to boot?

-Jayson



May 14, 2013 at 04:32 PM
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