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Archive 2013 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.
  
 
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #1 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


That's John at PP - he's moving to the Leica M240. Not sure if he's getting rid of all of his Contax stuff but he's sold some.


May 09, 2013 at 10:14 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #2 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


I've wanted to use the Leitax solution to have the best of both worlds but most of my lenses are AEG variants and all 'fast' if not. Shaving barrels - mirrors that hit the rear element doesn't sound like fun.


May 09, 2013 at 10:18 PM
Alistair1
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p.2 #3 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


I have both the Nex 7 and the D800e. With the lenses you have and the type of photography you do my suggestion is to stay with the Nex 7. You will see a bit less noise from the Nikon at ISO 100 but the D800e needs a VERY good lens to compete with a good M mount lens on the Nex 7. I have some top Nikon glass but I really need to use something like a Leica R APO to match my Nex when it has a Planar 50/F2 or Leitz 135mm/F4 mounted.

If you are itching to part with some cash, buy a WATE for the wide angle or wait for the upcoming Zeiss 15mm. Or spend your money on travel and workshops to further develop your style.



May 09, 2013 at 11:29 PM
Dudewithoutape
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p.2 #4 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Have you tried some of the Canon FF options (I know they don't "test" as well, but I really don't think the tests are everything, at least on a truly tangible level for most shooting)? Nex speedbooster? The 1st option will allow you to keep your AE lenses, the second is quite nice too.


May 10, 2013 at 12:12 AM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #5 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Sincere thanks for the suggestions. More practice, better composition, - started investigating the Speed Booster as well.

Travel is the 'panic' impetus (this time). Turkey, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic and Germany for 3 weeks coming up.



May 10, 2013 at 01:00 AM
RRRoger
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p.2 #6 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


MaxBerlin wrote:
I am sticking with the NEX for now and back to waiting for the full frame NEX. By no means do I think the test today was precise, inclusive or indicative of what the NIKONs can do (because I've seen spectacular photos from 800s and 800e's) but for now I am going to stick with what I know and hope that Sony comes sooner or later with a FF that will let me use my old Zeiss glass.

Things like articulating screens and EVFs that zoom are important to me for critical focusing. On the plus side using the D600
...Show more


What about the Sony A99?
It has an articulating screen and other features not available in a Canon or Nikon FX camera.
Is it possible to use your lens on that?

I have a D7100, D600, and D800
I would trade the D7100 + the D600 for a D800e.

The new viewfinder on the D7100 is superior.
I would not be surprised to see that on any mid model editions of the Nikon FX line.
There is a rummor of a 50 MP D4x coming.


Edited on May 12, 2013 at 08:03 PM · View previous versions



May 10, 2013 at 01:18 AM
philber
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p.2 #7 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


MaxBerlin wrote:
Sincere thanks for the suggestions. More practice, better composition, - started investigating the Speed Booster as well.

Travel is the 'panic' impetus (this time). Turkey, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic and Germany for 3 weeks coming up.


Max, I used to be a Canon + Zeiss all-MF-prime shooter, doing cityscape and landscape, a lot of it with tripod (sound familiar?). I bought a NEX for when I couldn't/wouldn't carry my large system.
I switched to all NEX, with a mix of Zeiss and Leica primes, and never looked back. And when I travel, as you will, is when I am happiest that I switched. Similarly, there is at least one fellow FMer who won the monthly alt competition with a landscape shot with a NEX, so you are not "settling for something inferior"

Have a great trip!

BTW, great night shots on your blog! Great work!



May 10, 2013 at 05:27 AM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #8 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


My bad. I realized this morning (by testing) that the D600 photo with the obstruction greatly affected the results of that shot. The other D600 with the 50mm is valid though but is not an apples to apples comparison as the ISO is much higher. I confess that given a fair test and the same settings the Nikon WOULD shoot better or as well as the NEX7 (as many have stated). Sincere apologies for causing a rumpus.

I learned a few things here... ergonomics and the way one shoots is important. My process with the NEX - switching back and forth between the EVF viewfinder and the articulating screen works for me best. Many shots and perspectives and critical focusing would be made more difficult with the Nikon (as many have attested to here).

I am also beginning to think that DXO over weights high ISO capability in their final scores. The NEX is poor at that but in most cases I am not willing to trade low ISO (100) for the shot. I don't mind carrying a tripod so I can maintain low ISO.

A tripod helps in so many other ways (not that I consider myself even close to an artist yet) but it helps one to back off from the camera and 're-see' the scene. I think it helps composition.

Last but not least - a good tripod could be an effective weapon. I've used a bike pump as a baton and a bike as a shield on one occasion to fend off a knife attack in Nice France of all places.

Again, sincere apologies for not looking deeper before posting. I appreciate the help and advice you guys gave along the way.



May 12, 2013 at 03:43 PM
philber
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p.2 #9 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Max, a side benefit of the Nex is that it allows you or me to carry a very light tripod, lighter than for a FF DSLR. I use a Gitzo 0530, less than 2 lbs, and litterally take it with me everywhere, except in very rare cases when I make do with a tabletop Manfrotto. I cannot remember how many interesting shots this has let me take in unplanned circumstances. All at ISO 100, of course.


May 12, 2013 at 03:48 PM
Mescalamba
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p.2 #10 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


MaxBerlin wrote:
I've wanted to use the Leitax solution to have the best of both worlds but most of my lenses are AEG variants and all 'fast' if not. Shaving barrels - mirrors that hit the rear element doesn't sound like fun.


FF Canon then - preferably 1Ds class (MK2 or MK3, MK3 is probably best camera Canon made).

For me - lens > other gear.

Or just wait for FF mirrorless, it will come some day.



May 12, 2013 at 04:11 PM
 

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elkhornsun
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p.2 #11 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


A slightly different perspective is that the two cameras are virually identical except for the greater number of megapixels with the D800 and its having the Nikon 10-pin port used on all pro level Nikon cameras.

I bought the D800e when it was announced to get the higher resolution than with my D3 cameras and to get video. Had the D600 been released at the same time my decision would have been the same but not as easy to make as D800 or D800e. The D800 is overkill for the prints I make. No one at "normal viewing distances" looking at a 20x30 print is going to know whether it was taken with the D3 or the D800. Same applies to trying to tell the difference between the D800 and the D600.

I use the Nikon 10-pin for my wireless focus and shutter release Quantum FreeXwire devices and for a GPS receiver to automatically geotag every picture I take. This connector is also used with my Nikon shutter release with timer. There are probably ways to do this with the D600 but I prefer one set of accessories that I can use with any of my cameras.

From a data and file management point of view the D800 takes 50% more resources. When I got the D800 I upgraded my tower computer and added USB 3 ports and a USB 3 card reader and replaced my laptop with one that has a i5 processor and USB 3 port and 1GB Ethernet to make file transfers acceptably fast. The D600 would have taken twice as long as the D3 files and the D800 would take three times as long to move picture files around. Either way I made the switch to 16GB CF cards.



May 18, 2013 at 01:57 AM
sflxn
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p.2 #12 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Ah, another being pulled to the rocks by the FF sirens. Welcome to $2k lenses, $200 filters, and 25-30lb gear bag. Not to mention constant gear lust. After all, a new and better FF camera comes out every 3 years. I'm turning in my 30lb gear bag and going the opposite direction. You can have my place in the FF roll call.

You might want to keep that NEX in addition to the FF... just in case you come to the same conclusion that some of us did.

I'm actually not leaving big cameras, just trimming down to one large camera system and a NEX kit.



May 18, 2013 at 03:10 AM
Delatant
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p.2 #13 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Very good discussion here!!! Lots of points of view.

The way I do photography sounds very similar to the way you do photography. I always wanted to do it the best I could. I owned the D800 and the D600 - in the end I got rid of them both and went back to my D3s. The 800 was a total flop in my opinion - owned it for 6 months and NEVER got a single picture out of it I would show anyone - plus, as said, the files are monstrous - PP took 2-4 times longer plus the mega-space they consumed. My camera was purchased before September last year (see above) and maybe it had the flaws mentioned - but I was bummed by such a Nikon product.

The D600 was better all the way around for me - better pictures, better IQ, less noise, etc. I probably still have it but it only has a bracket of 3 - not enough to do good HDR (which I would recommend you look into - sounds right up your alley) - why Nikon would limit it to 3 is beyond me - even the OMD has 7!!

In the end, I went back to my D3s/Zeiss lenses - plus added an OMD E-M5. The OMD is outstanding zooming in for manual focus - and the articulating screen is GREAT. I used the Panasonic/Zeiss and Olympus/Zeiss lens - absolutely wonderful! While not as good at ISO 6400 and 12800 as the 600/800, its broad ISO setting are good!

Reflecting now, I am glad I switched to the OMD. If I were you and seriously considering the D600/800, I might suggest you try the D800E for 30 days - no AL filter and perhaps the September "fix" may have helped the "blahs" - but at this stage for me, I am not willing to try. The D3s and the OMD - GREAT combo IMHO!



May 18, 2013 at 02:46 PM
talexander
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p.2 #14 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


You may want to try something I am aiming to do shortly which is use digicam control ( http://digicamcontrol.com/ ) in conjunction with a windows 8 pro tablet to do some really dead on perfect shots. The live view on an 10" screen combined with the fantastic controls make this IMHO the most amazing camera control setup for non-action shooting.

Being able to control every aspect from a touch screen then instantly open raw shots in photoshop to check images is amazing.

Tim



May 18, 2013 at 04:54 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #15 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Just got back from another camera shop. And I was floored by the results once someone was finally able to get a D800 and lens to work together and take a photo.

This is a totally unofficial result which makes it all the more impressive.

The D800, 50mm f1.4 lens @ f4 ISO 100, (used autofocus) and a less than perfect lighting and alignment of the chart set-up and still (hold on to your hats) straight out of the camera JPEG it nails an Imatest MTF50 score of 1423!


Nikon D800 50mm @ f4.0 by Zeissgeist

This is the same lens that DXO rates a 32 so imagine what this camera could do with a Zeiss 135 APO, the Distagon 55mm or one of the Nikon 85mm's that are at the top of DXO charts. (or under a proper setup)

Just for an apples to apples (sort of) comp as far as the conditions, I also shot my NEX7 while there. It managed to pull a 900 score in the same situation using the OSS 50 1.8 lens at 5.6.


Sony 50mm @ 5.6 by Zeissgeist




May 19, 2013 at 01:05 AM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #16 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


I felt bad about my NEX7 so I dragged out the Zeiss 85mm 1.2 and shot this. I feel much better now. MTF50 of 1241 for an untouched JPEG straight out of a NEX-7 isn't bad.


Zeiss 85mm 1.2 @ 5.6 by Zeissgeist

Now how can we mount this lens on to that D800?



May 19, 2013 at 02:36 AM
sflxn
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p.2 #17 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


I'm not so sure it's appropriate to compare the numbers for a FF with a DX. Also, Roger at LensRentals got completely different numbers than your local store. I think these numbers are relative to their respective formats.



May 19, 2013 at 04:07 AM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #18 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


Roger shoots from 30 ft I think. This was from across the counter about 3 ft. When I shoot the NEX7 with the 50mm OSS and a proper setup my scores map to Roger's scores within 1-2 % + or -. After having done 1000s of these tests I can confirm that it's not exact science. You can select a different ROI on the same line - different size or shape and you'll get a different MTF score. It's good enough to see what the potential is and to compare the two in the same appx conditions.


May 19, 2013 at 05:13 PM
MaxBerlin
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p.2 #19 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


The MTF score is not dependent on sensor size to my current understanding. It simply looks at the clarity of the ROI selected.


May 19, 2013 at 05:20 PM
sflxn
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p.2 #20 · D600 or D800 ? NEX7 user looking to make the leap.


MaxBerlin wrote:
The MTF score is not dependent on sensor size to my current understanding. It simply looks at the clarity of the ROI selected.


I am not so sure of this. With the normal lp/mm MTF charts that we get for lens, provided by the manufacturer, you must take sensor format into consideration. For instance, when looking at a 10 lp/mm on a FF lens, you need to look at a 15 lp/mm on a DX lens for correct comparisons. I do not profess to be an expert on this matter, but there are many lens MTF sources I have read that clearly states this. Even Photozone.de states that you cannot compare their results across formats.

These MTF charts are usually done with optical test benches so they are not matched up to any sensor. I did some googling on the imatest MTF. Their MTF is based on lens + camera, much like DXO. How does this affect the ability to do relative comparisons between lenses meant for different sensor sizes? I don't know. This is probably a topic best questioned on a forum like LL's.



May 19, 2013 at 08:55 PM
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