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Archive 2013 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....

  
 
veroman
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


andyjaggy82 wrote:
You should see if you know anyone who has an unmodified T1i, I would be really interested to get raw files from both cameras, same lens, same shot, and then post process each one for printing, do a print, and see which ones looks better.

I don't it's worth all that effort. I already know that the prints from my filterless 500D are excellent, up to and including 16 X 20. What else do I really need to know? A better comparison is the one I'm doing later on today: shoot same scene with the same lens on the 500D and my 5D Classic (has AA filter). That should tell us all something.
- Steve



May 07, 2013 at 10:27 AM
austin.grant
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


veroman wrote:
I don't it's worth all that effort. I already know that the prints from my filterless 500D are excellent, up to and including 16 X 20. What else do I really need to know?


I'd consider a modified vs nonmodified 500d comparison to be far more relevant than your proposed modified 500d vs random camera comparison. Test one variable at a time.



May 07, 2013 at 12:45 PM
veroman
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


austin.grant wrote:
I'd consider a modified vs nonmodified 500d comparison to be far more relevant than your proposed modified 500d vs random camera comparison. Test one variable at a time.


I understand. And normally that's what I'd do. But comparing two different cameras ... particularly one that's known to deliver sharp, very high quality images (the 5D) ... is more meaningful to me right now. Besides, it's not that unusual to compare different bodies, even different bodies from two different makers. dpreview does it all the time, and it's often very helpful.
- Steve



May 07, 2013 at 01:48 PM
veroman
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


So, as promised, here's a comparison between my filterless Canon 500D, my Canon 5D Classic and my Fuji X10 ... i.e. a comparison between three very different types of camera designs: full frame, crop and small sensor "point and shoot"(although their resolutions are similar).

The big surprise here ... for me anyway, and as you'll see ... is the excellent performance of the Fuji X10. I've liked my X10 from Day One, but this is the first time I've ever compared it with anything, much less a 5D Classic!

Some things to note:
• None of the images were sharpened.
• The 5D and 500D used the same lens, my very sharp Tamron 28-75 f/2.8. In a reasonable effort to keep depth-of-field similar, I shot the 500D @ f/8, the 5D Classic @ f/11 and the X10 @ f5/6. My math is probably a bit off, but it seems to have leveled things.
• All cameras were shot at ISO 200.
• The 5D and X10 images were upsized to match the 500D, i.e. 4752 pixels wide. The X10 took to the interpolation really well. It hardly looks upsized at all, and if I hadn't told you so you probably wouldn't be able to tell.
• The sun went in and out behind soft white clouds and was hard to keep up with. You'll see slight differences in shading and brightness, but not too much. Hey .... I can't control everything!

Here are the full scenes shot with each camera:






5D Classic







Fuji X10







500D




May 07, 2013 at 09:15 PM
veroman
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


100% crops of the above:






5D Classic







Fuji X10







500D




May 07, 2013 at 09:17 PM
15Bit
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


Highly as i rate the X10 (i also have one) it is clearly a class below the other 2 here - just look at the detail in the leaves. I also won't be trading my 5D for a filter-less rebel...

You converted with ACR? I've found i get better results on the X10 with Capture One.



May 08, 2013 at 12:36 AM
justruss
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


I think the X10-- also nice for the size-- is a class below.

Seems like there's a lot of pointilism-style noise/something going on in the AA-removed camera. Stuff that is small enough it might have the effect of a light pattern over the image... making it print well at larger sizes than one would expect. But also making this daylight (low iso) shot look very artificial/non-natural on the screen at big crops, but relatively sharp/pleasing at smaller web-sized (aka, downsized) display on screen as seen in the non-crop.

The 5D clearly trumps the others here: Look at the wood panelling and little door/window at the top of the building. And will take processing so much better than the other two. Which is to be expected.



May 08, 2013 at 01:07 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


15Bit wrote:
Highly as i rate the X10 (i also have one) it is clearly a class below the other 2 here - just look at the detail in the leaves. I also won't be trading my 5D for a filter-less rebel...

You converted with ACR? I've found i get better results on the X10 with Capture One.


+1 X10 shot looks like leaves have a had a special effects painterly filter applied. 5Dc is simply excellent.



May 08, 2013 at 01:21 AM
veroman
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


You guys make me smile ... or cry, I'm not sure which. I appreciate your comments. I really do. But given that these are 100% crops of unsharpened 15MP images ... with a 2/3" sensor camera thrown in for good measure! ... I think they indicate three really good cameras, warts and all. And when the 500D and 5D images are sharpened and further processed a little (and I really mean a little), they are very, very close in quality ... with the 5D having a slight edge in the leaf detail department; but really, not by much. In fact, look closely at some areas of the background trees and branches and you'll see a little bit better separation and definition with the 500D. Look also at the rocks on the bottom.

Here are slightly sharpened versions of the 100% crops:






5D Classic







500D/t1i



Edited on May 08, 2013 at 08:30 AM · View previous versions



May 08, 2013 at 08:21 AM
veroman
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


15Bit wrote:
Highly as i rate the X10 (i also have one) it is clearly a class below the other 2 here - just look at the detail in the leaves. I also won't be trading my 5D for a filter-less rebel... You converted with ACR? I've found i get better results on the X10 with Capture One.

I process and convert with Capture One 99% of the time. These were all done with C1 7.1.1.
- Steve



May 08, 2013 at 08:23 AM
veroman
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


justruss wrote:
... The 5D clearly trumps the others here: Look at the wood panelling and little door/window at the top of the building

I don't think so. See the sharpened versions of each. Is the 5D a little better? Probably. But whether or not it "clearly trumps" the 500D is questionable given the sizes we're looking at. I showed 13 X 19 prints of each to my wife last night. She could see the obvious differences in color, brightness, etc., but she couldn't say one was better than the other. "They both look great," she finally said. I agree. The prints I get from my filterless 500D are really excellent ... keeping in mind that subject matter is generally much more important to me than perfection.
- Steve



May 08, 2013 at 08:29 AM
andyjaggy82
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


5d looks clearly better to my eyes. Not only more detail, but the tonality and smoothness of the image is superior. The leaves for example seem to mush together and look unnatural in the 500d image. It's not a HUGE difference, but I feel the 5D image is definitely superior.


May 08, 2013 at 09:59 AM
veroman
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Some more t1i w/o AA filter ....


andyjaggy82 wrote:
5d looks clearly better to my eyes. Not only more detail, but the tonality and smoothness of the image is superior. The leaves for example seem to mush together and look unnatural in the 500d image. It's not a HUGE difference, but I feel the 5D image is definitely superior.

Smoothness? Except for the sky and small cloud, there isn't a single "smooth" element in the entire picture. And to my eyes, the leaves in the 500D crop look more natural and have better separation. In the end, though, you're right: it's not a huge difference ... and in prints, hardly any difference at all. Which all translates into my having a nice, light, small travel camera that's just about equal to my larger, heavier 5D ... up to ISO 800 anyway ... and with a larger native print size to boot.
- Steve



May 08, 2013 at 11:13 AM
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