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Archive 2013 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality
  
 
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


I am sure that I could do more tests but today I bought the 2xIII in anticipation of the firmware update for 5diii that will result in autofocus at f8.

So I set my camera(s) up and manual focussed and tried to match the settings pretty closely with remote shutter release.

Here are the results. I am interested in your comments but it appears that the 5diii with 2x has higher quality than 7d with 1.4x. Which surprised me. Or at least close which is contrary to my 5diii cropping compared to 7d, which 7d exceeded 5diii.

If this holds up I will be buying a 1dx and use the 2x instead of 7d.

Obviously the 7d was able to do the job with 2x the shutter speed, so that is a big factor, but here I was just comparing the iq.

Comments and feedback is appreciated.

Scott




The 5diii with 2x manually focussed on birdhouse about 250' from my house

  Canon EOS 5D Mark III    EF600mm f/4L IS II USM +2x III lens    1200mm    f/8.0    1/250s    2000 ISO    +1.0 EV  






The 7d with 1.4x manually focussed on birdhouse about 250's from house

  Canon EOS 7D    EF600mm f/4L IS II USM +1.4x lens    840mm    f/5.6    1/500s    2000 ISO    +1.3 EV  






5diii w 2x cropped

  Canon EOS 5D Mark III    EF600mm f/4L IS II USM +2x III lens    1200mm    f/8.0    1/250s    2000 ISO    +1.0 EV  






7d w 1.4x cropped

  Canon EOS 7D    EF600mm f/4L IS II USM +1.4x lens    840mm    f/5.6    1/500s    2000 ISO    +1.3 EV  



Edited on Apr 21, 2013 at 03:02 AM · View previous versions



Apr 21, 2013 at 02:05 AM
RogerC11
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


The 5diii does look slightly better showing a little more detail, but without having the images side by side to compare each other to, the difference is almost not worth mentioning.


Apr 21, 2013 at 02:34 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


RogerC11: I agree the difference are pretty marginal:
- The 7d grain looks noisier but the resolution is similar

But the marginal differences suggest the end choice would come down to:
1) 7d w 1.4x is twice as fast at shutter
2) The 5diii has better performance - perhaps a stop and a 1/2 - then 7d - so 5diii could be taken to ISO 3200 to compensate and be pretty close
3) And then the auto focus becomes the deciding factor - can the 5diii auto focus better at f8 than the 7d at f5.6

I guess we will have to wait for a week or so to find out when the 5diii hardware update arrives.

Edited on Apr 21, 2013 at 05:00 AM · View previous versions



Apr 21, 2013 at 03:01 AM
JameelH
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


I am not sure this test is conclusive of the IQ with TC as opposed to just IQ @ ISO 2000. 5D3 obviously has better IQ @ ISO 2000 than 7D.


Apr 21, 2013 at 03:18 AM
RogerC11
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


JameelH wrote:
I am not sure this test is conclusive of the IQ with TC as opposed to just IQ @ ISO 2000. 5D3 obviously has better IQ @ ISO 2000 than 7D.

That's true. The gap becomes even smaller when used at lower ISO values.



Apr 21, 2013 at 03:27 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


A lot of white noise in all of those shots, eh?


Apr 21, 2013 at 05:37 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Scott Stoness wrote:
If this holds up I will be buying a 1dx and use the 2x instead of 7d.
Scott



Will the 7D2 AF at f8? Would be nice.



Apr 21, 2013 at 05:45 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


I would have shot the 7D at ISO 1250 as ISO 1000 is the worst ISO being pushed from ISO 800 it is noisier than ISO 1250. Don't use ISO 125, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000 on the 7D.


Apr 21, 2013 at 11:12 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Imagemaster wrote:
A lot of white noise in all of those shots, eh?


Its called snow - you likely don't have that in Parksville

A 7d2 that focussed at f8 would be great - and there's no reason that Canon could not put it together (except product / profit management that I don't begrudge).

I am sure the 7d with 2x would outperform the 5diii with 2x if distance challenged.


Edited on Apr 21, 2013 at 07:44 PM · View previous versions



Apr 21, 2013 at 07:39 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


I will see if I can test again at lower ISO this afternoon but in my mind - ISO 2000 on 5diii is a realistic spot because for big animals its usually dusk or dawn. I guess for BIF ISO 1250 on 5diii and 640 on 7d might be a good comparison (will result in same shutter speed).


Apr 21, 2013 at 07:43 PM
 

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Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Scott Stoness wrote:
I will see if I can test again at lower ISO this afternoon but in my mind - ISO 2000 on 5diii is a realistic spot because for big animals its usually dusk or dawn. I guess for BIF ISO 1250 on 5diii and 640 on 7d might be a good comparison (will result in same shutter speed).


Yeah I'd use 1600/800 or 1250/640



Apr 21, 2013 at 10:33 PM
OwlsEyes
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Thanks for the post Scott. Been trying to decide whether I should add a 7D to my bag. I sold the last one to buy the 5D iii and I don't want to give up the AF, dual card slots and larger pixels. I used a 5D-2 + 7D for the last few years thinking I was fine.... then during the winter I shot some birds flying at me with a 5D-3. The tracking capabilities blew me away and had to get it. The AF on the camera tracks much better than anything I've used in the past (includes 1D iii and 7D). When I bought the 5D iii, I had the option to get a 1D mark iv for the same price, but chose the 5-series. I'm focal length limited with a 300 f2.8IS + converters and have felt it a bit this winter when chasing boreal owls. While I have a 100-400L, it's just not the same as the 300 f2.8... and my wife loves that zoom...

Anyway, that was a long way of saying... it looks like the 2X is at least as good as the 7D w/ 1.4x. If the sun ever comes out, I'll set up a test at some feeders and share my observations as well. Tamy (the better half) has a 7D, when she's not looking I'll give it a go and add to the thread.

thanks,
bruce



Apr 21, 2013 at 10:53 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


OwlsEyes wrote:
Anyway, that was a long way of saying... it looks like the 2X is at least as good as the 7D w/ 1.4x. If the sun ever comes out, I'll set up a test at some feeders and share my observations as well. Tamy (the better half) has a 7D, when she's not looking I'll give it a go and add to the thread.

bruce


Although IQ in this test was similar with the edge to the 5D III (at the same ISO) it was a static object and I'd be surprised if the 7D + lens + 1.4x @ f/5.6 with 19 x-type points doesn't AF better than the 5DIII + lens + 2x @ f/8 with it's single AF point (when new FW arrives). With the 7D combo you can shoot 1 stop lower ISO for the same shutter speed, negating some of the IQ benefit the 5D III has at higher ISO and the 7D combo still puts more pixels on the subject, although only about 10% more.



Apr 21, 2013 at 11:11 PM
uz2work
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


I would expect that, if you made the comparison at lower ISO, the 7D combination would have an easily seen advantage but that, as you increase the ISO, that advantage would diminish. That would be consistent with what I've seen in multiple comparisons done at a wider range of ISOs.

What should also be considered is that the 7D plus 1.4x combination would be shot at an ISO one stop lower than would be the 5D Mark III plus 2x combination to maintain the same shutter speeds, and that one stop difference would significantly cut into whatever noise advantage that the 5D Mark III would have started out with. I would also expect that any AF advantage that the 5D Mark III combination might start out with would be diminished, if not eliminated, based on the fact that AF performance takes a significant hit with a 2x and a much less significant hit with a 1.4x.

Les



Apr 21, 2013 at 11:25 PM
OwlsEyes
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Although IQ in this test was similar with the edge to the 5D III (at the same ISO) it was a static object and I'd be surprised if the 7D + lens + 1.4x @ f/5.6 with 19 x-type points doesn't AF better than the 5DIII + lens + 2x @ f/8 with it's single AF point (when new FW arrives). With the 7D combo you can shoot 1 stop lower ISO for the same shutter speed, negating some of the IQ benefit the 5D III has at higher ISO and the 7D combo still puts more pixels on
...Show more

In my case, I'd be comparing the 7D at f4 (300 f2.8 + 1.4x) to a 5D iii at f5.6 (300 f2.8 + 2x). I have experienced the dramatic drop in AF performance with the 2x, but it was significantly faster than the 7D w/ the 300 2.8 + 2x converter. Additionally, I am using the original 300 f2.8IS, so I may not see the type of performance that Scott has.... as I said, I'll post something living/moving once the skies clear in MN.

bruce



Apr 22, 2013 at 01:22 AM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


To my eyes, the snowflakes are sharper in the 7D shot.


Apr 22, 2013 at 01:46 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Liquidstone wrote:
To my eyes, the snowflakes are sharper in the 7D shot.


Their not snow flakes, their sensor noise



Apr 22, 2013 at 01:50 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


OwlsEyes wrote:
Thanks for the post Scott. Been trying to decide whether I should add a 7D to my bag. I sold the last one to buy the 5D iii and I don't want to give up the AF, dual card slots and larger pixels. I used a 5D-2 + 7D for the last few years thinking I was fine.... then during the winter I shot some birds flying at me with a 5D-3. The tracking capabilities blew me away and had to get it. The AF on the camera tracks much better than anything I've used in the past (includes 1D
...Show more

Thanks Bruce - I look forward to seeing you posts. I will try some more tests tomorrow as well at lower iso. Scott



Apr 22, 2013 at 03:22 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Although IQ in this test was similar with the edge to the 5D III (at the same ISO) it was a static object and I'd be surprised if the 7D + lens + 1.4x @ f/5.6 with 19 x-type points doesn't AF better than the 5DIII + lens + 2x @ f/8 with it's single AF point (when new FW arrives). With the 7D combo you can shoot 1 stop lower ISO for the same shutter speed, negating some of the IQ benefit the 5D III has at higher ISO and the 7D combo still puts more pixels on
...Show more

I agree with you that the focus is likely to remain better on 7d but:
1) The 5diii is more than a stop better than 7d - so ISO 1600 on 5diii might be better than 7d with ISO 800;
2) My figuring is that although the 7d puts 10% more pixels on the bird (eg) the quality of the pixels is not as great because of defraction and limitations on the lens (a 5" lens can deliver more resolution than the effective 3" lens you are using with a crop).. If you look at DXO mark, you will find that the resolving power of the 7d is about 20% less than 5diii likely because the lens becomes the limiting power.

I will try to test my theory and post here.

If all this is true 5diii with 2x would be better than the 7d with 1.4x for stationary objects. But the 7d would be better for BIF.Maybe Canon will go back to 1.3 camera or 7d2 will change the math.



Apr 22, 2013 at 04:57 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 5diii 2.0x III vs 7d 1.4x III Image Quality


Scott Stoness wrote:
I agree with you that the focus is likely to remain better on 7d but:
1) The 5diii is more than a stop better than 7d - so ISO 1600 on 5diii might be better than 7d with ISO 800;
2) My figuring is that although the 7d puts 10% more pixels on the bird (eg) the quality of the pixels is not as great because of defraction and limitations on the lens (a 5" lens can deliver more resolution than the effective 3" lens you are using with a crop).. If you look at DXO mark, you will find that
...Show more

Although if you have an f/2.8 lens then the 7D is always since then you can use the 2x TC well enough on the 7D too and it will be better other than very, very dark colored birds in very, very, very poor lighting.

I wish it were not so, since I had to sell off my 7D and only have the 5D3 at this point, but it is very definitely so.



Apr 22, 2013 at 05:51 PM
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