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Archive 2013 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park
  
 
skibum5
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


wow really sad, i hope they haven't marked up too much of it yet



Apr 15, 2013 at 03:36 AM
mspencer1
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


What a shame


Apr 15, 2013 at 03:57 AM
mpmendenhall
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.


Perhaps I'm elitist, but I think folks who go out of their way to mess places up for the next people shouldn't be given free reign to trample everywhere that more respectful visitors manage to see without accidentally scrawling profanities on the rocks.



Apr 15, 2013 at 04:07 AM
BrianO
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.


What "elitist attitude"? I haven't seen anyone suggesting that others not go to these places, or don't have a right to go to these places; I've only seen people lament the jerks that defile these places.

If you're defending the vandals, then it's your attitude that is repulsive.



Apr 15, 2013 at 04:40 AM
Mescalamba
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


DanBrown wrote:
Actually, he said "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." He was acknowledging some doubt, not certainty about stupidity being the only one.


I know, was lazy to search for exact quote. And was pretty sure someone else will and point out my "mistake".



Apr 15, 2013 at 12:46 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.


Everybody has a right to go to these places and enjoy them. Nobody has a right to 'tag' these areas. I'm not sure what your attitude is, but it's definitely off-base.



Apr 15, 2013 at 02:29 PM
BenV
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.


You didn't read anything in this thread. Did you?



Apr 15, 2013 at 08:06 PM
WAYCOOL
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.


I find you repulsive for your support of these criminals.



Apr 16, 2013 at 05:26 AM
Craig Gillette
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


This is an interesting area in Joshua tree. It's accessed from the north, not the main park road. I've taken church groups up there several times in the late winter/spring and have been fortunate enough to catch seasonal streams flowing down canyon a couple of times. We did some of the Sierra Club BMTC course there as well as a training conditioning jaunt up from the the campground, up a peak, then across and back down rattlesnake Canyon from the south. There's no excuse for vandalization of any sort in public parks (or other people's property in urban areas).


Apr 16, 2013 at 05:49 AM
Keith B.
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


To those in this thread who have brought up the issue of not revealing locations, you must understand that the ignorant dimwit loser kids who spray paint on the rocks are likely not attracted to the location by it's aesthetic beauty as a photography subject.
The remedy is very easy: Stepped up enforcement, at least for a while.
Oh , I see we can't do that, because the NPS has to cut back, since somebody decided we have to spend more billions on bogus military hardware(and adventures). Oh well, might as well sit back and watch the money get re-distributed...up.



Apr 17, 2013 at 05:40 AM
 

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PhilPDX
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


Keith B. wrote:
...the issue of not revealing locations, you must understand that the ignorant dimwit loser kids who spray paint on the rocks are likely not attracted to the location by it's aesthetic beauty as a photography subject.


The problem is that one thing leads to another. You reveal a location, people start to visit in increasing numbers, some newspaper or blog publishes an article about it, some numbnut reads it ... there's your first vandal (exaggerating, of course). I've seen more than one remote place getting destroyed by mass tourism and people who don't give a hoot about others.

-Phil



Apr 17, 2013 at 10:24 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


IMO, the only problem is that some people have so little respect for their surroundings that they want to express themselves all over the place. As time passes and populations increase, there will be fewer and fewer locations that are 'unknown'. That's OK. As long as the people visiting those places practice "leave no sign", that's OK. When people leave their 'signs', that's not OK. Of course, these 'signs' are not restricted to grafitti. Tire tracks in inappropriate places and garbage are also high on my 'not to do' list.


Apr 17, 2013 at 10:35 PM
RonR2
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


A trail cam will do the job, pictures speak volumes especially when displayed on the very sites they use to display their trashy writings.


Apr 17, 2013 at 11:23 PM
Cgb628
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.


I'm sorry, but your attitude is repulsive. We have the same right as anyone to go to these places. Those vandals have no right to destroy them.



Apr 18, 2013 at 10:12 PM
Hersch
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


All of the Historic log cabins in the Cades Cove Loop, Roaring Forks Motor Trail and other areas of the GSMNP have been damaged by visitors carving names, dates of visits and all kind of other graffiti using Magic Markers or Sharpies and sometimes even paint inside and outside of the structures, even inside the Churches that are occasionally still used by some of the old family members that the park land once belong to. This is a terrible problem for the Rangers and the Park Service. I have talked with them about it on a couple of occasions and the subject comes up at just about all their meetings with discussions about how to control it. Motion activated cameras may be possible for some of these locations but budget cuts may hinder this idea. One of our historic Cemeteries in Clayton County, GA was severely damaged several years ago by teenagers in a big 4 wheel drive truck driving through and knocking over, and breaking apart huge tombstones that cannot be replaced or repaired. It remains just as it was after all the damage today. They were caught but because they were Juveniles they basically got a few weeks in a detention center and released back to their parents. Vandalism will always be around but it's really hard for me to imagine what makes a person want to do these kind of things that have such an impact without thinking of all the consequences. I wish they could catch them all.


Apr 19, 2013 at 08:35 AM
kinconorb
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


Cgb628 wrote:
I'm sorry, but your attitude is repulsive. We have the same right as anyone to go to these places. Those vandals have no right to destroy them.




One could argue we the photographers are the true vandals.

Although many of you may disagree. These locations through popularity, be it photography or otherwise are lost. There are a few places I hold dear which I will never post photos of online. Call me selfish but the act of making them public I fell would be vandalism. Perhaps not in the same sense as scrawling my name into rocks, but exposing a place that is untouched destroys it for the next person.



Apr 20, 2013 at 03:10 PM
BrianO
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


kinconorb wrote:
One could argue we the photographers are the true vandals.


One could argue anything; that doesn't mean one would always be correct. In fact, some arguments are just baseless.

Taking a photo of something is NOT vandalizing it; when we leave, the object/place is fundamentally the same as when we arrived. The same is not true of someone spraying paint all over the place, carving their names into trees, etc.

When I was a Boy Scout back in the 1960s and '70s, we had a saying with regard to hiking and camping: "Take only photographs, leave only footprints." I would add that we were even taught ways to minimize the latter. This is still my philosophy today.



Apr 20, 2013 at 03:19 PM
Larrys
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


What kind of idiot goes to a national park to do vandalism?? How did they get all the way from their ghetto neighbourhood to the parks, and why?? It doesn't make sense.

patrick_morris wrote:
You guys don't have any more or less of a right to go to these places then anyone else does. The elitist attitudes I'm seeing here is repulsive.

Interesting response. So you think that we are "elitists" because we are against the lowlife scumbags who are ruining the parks.. Why the defensive attitude? Perhaps you are hiding a can of spray paint in your camera bag?



Apr 20, 2013 at 04:16 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


Larrys wrote:
What kind of idiot goes to a national park to do vandalism?? How did they get all the way from their ghetto neighbourhood to the parks...


In my experience, idiots are evenly distributed through all communities.



Apr 20, 2013 at 04:48 PM
PhilPDX
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Vandalism at Joshua Tree National Park


BrianO wrote:
Taking a photo of something is NOT vandalizing it; when we leave, the object/place is fundamentally the same as when we arrived.


Tell that the countless photographers who trample through the woods and up the creek beds in the Columbia Gorge...



Apr 20, 2013 at 05:04 PM
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