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Archive 2013 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

eSchwab
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

it's terrible.
startisback.com makes it 100X better.

Apr 02, 2013 at 06:53 PM

Ho1972
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

Win8 has several significant improvements under the hood, enough to make learning the GUI worthwhile (or circumventing it by one of the popular methods). Never thought Win7 would be eclipsed so quickly.

Apr 03, 2013 at 03:55 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

Ho1972 wrote:
Win8 has several significant improvements under the hood,

Such as ...

Apr 03, 2013 at 12:32 PM

justruss
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

mshi wrote:
All software, including operating systems, provides "power users" with shortcuts and command prompt commands. GUI is never intended as the only tool for those so-called "power users."

+1.

And since this is the Pro forum, one would think the OP would hope to get the most efficient use out of a computer-- which is generally done by learning a couple time-saving shortcuts. Most professionals who use a computer for their work-- that I know-- use shortcuts. It's the weekend warriors, and retired boomers, who don't.

Of course... I take back the pro forum complaint. Only about 5% of the posts in here have anything to do with the business of photography.

Oh, and I'm a happy Mac user. But before you jump ship to Apple hoping for proper support of pro users... do realize that Apple hasn't really updated their ONLY proper desktop machine since 2010.

Apr 03, 2013 at 01:02 PM

Ho1972
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

RustyBug wrote:
Such as ...

File>Copy is worth it all by itself.

File copy experience
Microsoft has significantly enhanced the file copy experience in Windows 8, making it both faster and easier to use. If you’re familiar with file copying from previous Windows versions, you know that each file (and move) operation creates its own copy or move window, and that each subsequent operation slows everything down to a crawl.

This no longer happens in Windows 8. All file copies and moves now occur in a single window in which you can pause any copy or move processes if you’d like to give precedence to another operation. And file copies and moves occur much more quickly than before, even when you have multiple file operations going at once. File copy/move conflicts are also handled in a far more elegant fashion that before, with simpler remediation.

Link

Then there's the speed boost, and it's not just boot and shutdown -- my PS bench runs aobut 16% faster in Win8; better security and native ISO support for starters.

Apr 03, 2013 at 01:57 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

justruss wrote:
+1.

And since this is the Pro forum, one would think the OP would hope to get the most efficient use out of a computer-- which is generally done by learning a couple time-saving shortcuts.

There is always a learning curve to something new, which I'm good with ... as long as there is a benefit to be gained by the investment into the learning curve. Having a currently established and personalized efficient workflow (individually established) already in place (with programmed shortcuts, macros, key-strokes, etc) as well as an established mental approach to that workflow is typically much more efficient than during the period of the learning curve.

The resistance to embarking on such an investment into a learning curve isn't one of being "Joe Consumer" who is unwilling to put forth such an investment and wants everything spoon fed on a silver platter ... instead, it IS about a concern for efficiency.

If the GUI is causing a reduction in efficiency and a learning curve is warranted to establish a new workflow/shortcuts etc. ... where is the gain in efficiency? Where is the ROI @ your learning curve?

I'm not necessarily bashing it just because I don't want to put forth the effort ... but with a "business" perspective, where is the ROI for doing so? If it only gets you back up to where you currently are for your efficiency, then you've expended an investment into the learning curve for no gain. But if there is a gain to be realized ... I'm surmising that many who are dissatisfied with Win 8, have yet to be explained, shown or experience a gain sufficient to generate an ROI worthy of the investment into the learning curve. Show/produce/explain the gain (real world) and I'm all in ... without the gain, where's the desire to expend the investment (time & money).

IMO ... that is a business perspective.

Apr 03, 2013 at 02:12 PM

justruss
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

The only problem, RustyBug, is that you essentially don't have a choice. Windows 7 will slowly lose support, and new software will stop being made to run on it. Yes, that will take a few years.

It's legit for a business to freeze its software setup to save money/time. No doubt. But if you plan on continuing your business beyond the timeframe where such a freeze will work (or beyond the timeframe during which being stuck on outdated technology will negatively impact your efficiency COMPARED TO COMPETITORS)... you MUST upgrade.

So it becomes a question not of if, but when to upgrade to stay ahead of the curve.

No doubt there's a threat for business to upgrade to the newest stuff right away. It usually isn't done that way for a number of reasons. But it's almost assuredly a bigger threat to get bogged down and left by your competition. Successful companies don't stagnate their way to higher efficiency, productivity, and innovation.

In any case, I still don't see this as a professional photography question so much as a general ickiness about a new system question. But again, I don't see much business of photography discussion going on here in the first place...

Apr 04, 2013 at 02:47 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

Russ,

Your points are all valid and correct ... to a point (imo, several years vs. few years, i.e. until companies begin making the switch en mass). Each release is considered to be the new & innovative one that is going to become the gold standard. And as others have mentioned, it seems that some do better than others. 95, XP, Win 7 seem to have done better than 98, ME, & Vista. The jury is still out on Win 8 and and there will of course be a Win 9 (or some other name) behind it to continue the leapfrog of available OS's.

+1 @ WHEN vs. IF ... but the pushback for XP (because it just simply WORKED) was great enough to extend support far beyond the need to leave XP for several years. I'm not upgrade phobic ... I actually had Win 8 from the day it first became available to me.

After a month of frustration that would kill my "mojo" rather than liberate it, the cost of the detriment to my mental anguish overrode any other theoretical / nominal gains that I had yet to realize the benefit from. For another person, the changes may have been very liberating, and a year from now I may learn how to love Win 8.

But, I think the last straw came for me, when someone told me where I should mouse click in the lower right corner to bring up a window/pane/ribbon (something, I've since forgotten). UNTIL SOMEONE ELSE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS ... there was absolutely NO WAY that I would have ever known about it. Nothing happened on a mouseover, no text/icon hinting that it was there ... nothing, other than it was just a perfectly invisible function. That, and the fact that as a mouse/touchpad user, you had to travel all the way across the screen to get to it and then back again to where you were ... horrible interface.

If that's what they call an intuitive interface ... there is something very wrong with the thought process behind that, imo. It only made me think "How much more" am I going to have to go ask someone to explain to me how to use this OS for its invisible interface. Minimal and intuitive are one thing, but invisible ... really

I suspect that Win 8, with I'm sure plenty of innovative ideas (Vista) will march on, but I'm thinking that Win 7 / Vista will easily be around long enough to see what comes behind it, much like the preferred Win 7, followed Vista. If I'm forced to change to Win 8 (I get that), my learning curve investment will be the same later, as it would be now.

Understanding that it comes at the "opportunity loss" to not receive the ROI that Win 8 might bring ... which so far cost me my mojo way more than it gained me any efficiency. Starting & stopping my mental mojo/workflow is very inefficient and can cause not only a reduction in efficiency, but also a reduction in quality of workmanship.

Until then, I skip out on the frustration/angst that it causes me. Maybe I successfully skip over Win 8 to Win 9, maybe I'm forced to be a late adopter ... but, I was very disappointed with Win 8. I was very hopeful for it, and to its credit ran pretty well on my T60 ... but that UI was a deal breaker for me (for now).

I also recognize that my learning curve is getting a bit more costly now that I'm more interested in stable & consistent than novel and innovative. Mac vs. PC, Win 8 vs. Win 7 vs. XP, Canon vs. Nikon vs. Sony, SLR vs. Rangefinder vs. MF, manual focus vs. auto-focus, prime vs. zoom ... we all have our preferences where one person perceives a gain, for another, it may be perceived as a loss.

I'll give Win 8 some due (based on those who say there's more under the hood), but for now, it's not for me because I couldn't find the hood latch.

Apr 04, 2013 at 08:24 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

eSchwab wrote:
it's terrible.
startisback.com makes it 100X better.

Thanks ... I'll check it out.

Apr 04, 2013 at 08:37 AM

swoop
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

My whole reason for purchasing my new laptop when i did was to avoid Win8. I bought my half sister a laptop yesterday and transferred over all her files. It was my first experience with Win8 and it really is awful. I understand Metro could appeal to some, especially the touchscreen users, which is what Microsoft feel computers are headed for. But for those who are so accustomed to multitasking it's such a limiting OS.

Apr 04, 2013 at 11:06 AM

Arka
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

RustyBug wrote:
The more Microsoft tries to be like a Mac, the more they suck @ being like a Mac.

You're not suggesting that Metro trying to be "Mac-like," are you? There is very little on the Mac that obligates me to use anything like Metro. Maybe you meant "iOS like?" That would be a legitimate criticism and cause for alarm.

I think Windows 7 was Microsoft's best effort at being more "Mac-like," and was quite successful; I'm a big fan of the UI, and often prefer it to my Macs.

That said, the encroachment of slick touch-centric interfaces onto the desktop is not a Windows-only problem. The Mac interface is also increasingly trying to converge iOS and MacOS, to the detriment of the latter.

Apr 04, 2013 at 04:35 PM

Sunny Sra
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

Install Start8 to get the windows 7 interface on windows 8.

Apr 04, 2013 at 05:17 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

Arka wrote:
You're not suggesting that Metro trying to be "Mac-like," are you? There is very little on the Mac that obligates me to use anything like Metro. Maybe you meant "iOS like?" That would be a legitimate criticism and cause for alarm.

I think Windows 7 was Microsoft's best effort at being more "Mac-like," and was quite successful; I'm a big fan of the UI, and often prefer it to my Macs.

That said, the encroachment of slick touch-centric interfaces onto the desktop is not a Windows-only problem. The Mac interface is also increasingly trying to converge iOS and MacOS, to...Show more →

+1 ... my bad @ not being Apple savvy enough to differentiate between iOS vs. Mac, but you've read me well. Thanks for the correction.

I think that your perspective from a Mac user @ Win 7 bodes well for the longevity of Win 7 (maybe like that of XP) such that being forced into Win 8 won't be coming anytime soon. Maybe MS will recognize this and make a patch/revision to include a Win 7 style & Metro style UI for Win 8 ... THEN, I think Win 8 would take off very nicely for either type of user. Kind of like a repeat of the XP/Vista/7 response and an option to install @ XP.

Apr 04, 2013 at 06:23 PM

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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

Now I can type commands just like I did in DOS many many years ago, I can touch the screen to do something. So now, I learn keyboard commands and then have to take my hands off the keyboard/mouse to reach for the screen to do something. Is this some plot to cure carpal tunnel? Or maybe a plot to sell window cleaner?

I was going to stop at the local Best Buy to check out win8, but it looks like I can save the gasoline.

Apr 04, 2013 at 09:15 PM

Sunny Sra
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

runamuck wrote:
Now I can type commands just like I did in DOS many many years ago, I can touch the screen to do something. So now, I learn keyboard commands and then have to take my hands off the keyboard/mouse to reach for the screen to do something. Is this some plot to cure carpal tunnel? Or maybe a plot to sell window cleaner?

I was going to stop at the local Best Buy to check out win8, but it looks like I can save the gasoline.

you don't HAVE to touch the screen, and you don't HAVE to learn keyboard commands. You can install 3rd party app, which ADDS the start menu button, gives you a task bar etc etc...just like you were used to the start button in windows 95, windows xp, windows vista, windows 7.

lord forbid there is ever a change. wonder if people were this resistant when the qwerty hard button keyboard went away and its onscreen keyboard on the phones.

Look into start8.

Apr 04, 2013 at 10:28 PM

David Baldwin
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

"you don't HAVE to touch the screen, and you don't HAVE to learn keyboard commands. You can install 3rd party app, which ADDS the start menu button, gives you a task bar etc etc...just like you were used to the start button in windows 95, windows xp, windows vista, windows 7. "

Well, I have already installed third party software to bring back the start button, but that's not the only issue. Working normally with the desktop at times the experience is just like traditional Windows, then suddently, and apparently arbitrarily, Metro or screens based on it, pop up. I don't know how to tell Win 8 to totally revert to normal Windows behaviour, although I have downloaded detailed instructions which will apparently attempt to achieve this. Its like permanently trying to straddle two different OS at once, Windows, and something alien.

As for shortcuts, I prefer to memorise my Photoshop shortcuts, I prefer my OS to allow me to use the mouse efficiently for all tasks if I choose. That's the point of shortcuts, you should be able to decide for yourself which ones are most useful/memorable to you, and to choose to use the GUI for the rest- thats one of the reasons they call it a PERSONAL computer! I want that choice to continue. Anyway, since posting this I've been researching interface commentators on the web, and look forward to many of their suggestions being incorporated into the Win 8 Service Pack.

As for people being resistant to change, if I bought a new car I would expect the clutch, brake and accelerator to be in their usual configuration, if some bright spark swapped them around anticipating a new generation of electric wonder cars, I would complain in the same way.

Actually, if someone could help me out I have a particular problem. Working in Photoshop in full screen mode my panels are on the far right. When I reach with the mouse into, say the Layers panel the Windows "charms" (I think its called) dock thingie springs out, how can I prevent this please?

Apr 05, 2013 at 03:21 AM

Ho1972
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

David Baldwin wrote:
Actually, if someone could help me out I have a particular problem. Working in Photoshop in full screen mode my panels are on the far right. When I reach with the mouse into, say the Layers panel the Windows "charms" (I think its called) dock thingie springs out, how can I prevent this please?

The charms bar shouldn't appear unless you move your cursor into the upper or lower RH corners of the screen. Is something different happening with your setup? I can easily scroll up and down without charms appearing and the scroll bar is about as far right as you can get.

Apr 05, 2013 at 04:04 AM

David Baldwin
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

I usually park my Layers panel in the lower right of my screen. If I remember correctly (I am now typing on a Win 7 machine so can't check at the moment) I was attempting to click the "create new layer" button. I will have another go on my Win 8 machine later on!

Apr 05, 2013 at 05:06 AM

Sunny Sra
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

David Baldwin wrote:
"you don't HAVE to touch the screen, and you don't HAVE to learn keyboard commands. You can install 3rd party app, which ADDS the start menu button, gives you a task bar etc etc...just like you were used to the start button in windows 95, windows xp, windows vista, windows 7. "

Well, I have already installed third party software to bring back the start button, but that's not the only issue. Working normally with the desktop at times the experience is just like traditional Windows, then suddently, and apparently arbitrarily, Metro or screens based on it, pop up. I...Show more →

I'm not sure which 3rd party app you installed, however that is not my experience where things just pop up arbitrarily. i've been using windows 8 for almost a year now on 3 display setup.

If and when i want to see the win8 screen (with all the shortcuts) i hit the windows key on the keyboard.

You can try either of these to disable the windows8 charms bar.

http://teamwindows8.com/2013/02/how-to-disable-charms-bar-and-program-switcher-in-windows-8/

http://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-charms-bar-hint-in-windows-8/

you may also want to apply this tweak, to get windows 8 to confirm that you want to delete a file...

http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/how-to-enable-delete-confirmation-dialog-in-windows-8/

here is list of windows 8 shortcuts, you can also buy this as a free app from the app store
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/new-keyboard-shortcuts#1TC=t1

..and car analogies really don't work..i was thinking of some but they just dont...the clutch, gauges may all work the same...but they may have a updated look, be in a different place etc...Top Gear rules

Apr 05, 2013 at 09:27 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Anyone else really hate the Windows 8 interface?

David Baldwin wrote:
I usually park my Layers panel in the lower right of my screen. If I remember correctly (I am now typing on a Win 7 machine so can't check at the moment) I was attempting to click the "create new layer" button.

YUP ... ticked me off all the time as well, i.e. very disruptive to the workflow/creative/mojo process. Sure, you can say well, just move your layers panel somewhere else, but now you're forcing me to revise my workflow to accommodate the OS/UI interfering with the program I'm working in ... not exactly my idea of what an OS is supposed to be doing.

Good real estate management/flow is part of the efficiency ... forcing me to make that different comes at a cost (efficiency/mindset) that eradicates what was intuitive to me. After a month of using Win 8, I never realized any ROI benefit sufficient to offset these kinds of losses.

BTW ... my frustrations/disruptions turned into delays for deliverables. Say what you might, think of me what you will ... but this was real world business for me.

Win 8 did me no favors.

Will there be hope in a Service Pack, maybe. I'm almost of the opinion that it was intentionally released too soon, just so that they could learn from the mass market feedback, as that seems to be an approach that some companies lean toward. I guess my experience with being an "early adopter" just didn't bode well for me.

Edited on Apr 05, 2013 at 11:49 AM · View previous versions

Apr 05, 2013 at 10:39 AM

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