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Archive 2013 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.
  
 
Andrew Gough
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p.2 #1 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


Personally, the NEX7 does come quite close to a full frame, but for full size use, like printing, no way. For web use its fine, but like all NEX's it has a grain structure imparted by the 2.5mm glass moire filter in front of the sensor. I find this effect very difficult to process out. It does not always show up, but I have seen it even with very high quality alternative lenses as well as native glass.

I would buy the new rebel SL1 and stick a zoom on it if I was you. You would then be carrying the minimum extra kit, and you could use the zoom on a full frame cam if needed.

IMHO

Andrew



Mar 30, 2013 at 05:29 PM
frezeiss
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p.2 #2 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


Karel Geertsem wrote:
I have the 5D2 and some Zeiss lenses. Recently I decided I wanted something lighter for travel and hiking, preferably a 1 lens solution. IQ of course as close to the 5D2/ZE's as possible. I asked here, people recommended the Nex and the Olympus E-PM2. I liked both cameras a lot, but didn't think the kit lenses were that great. In other words I would have to build another system.

After some more research I ended up with the Fujifilm X-E1 with the kit lens. So far (have it for one week now), I REALLY like it. Amazingly, the JPEG's
...Show more

Karel, if you really want to try M lenses on the X cameras, dont try below 50. The Fuji sensors arent excatly friendly with them, the ricoh GXR seems to be the best platform for M lenses.

Anyways, I know several people are put off earlier buy x-trans raw issue, but its not that bad. Here are some samples with the kit and 14 mm, developped from RAW with Lightroom 4.4 rc.

14 mm






"Kit"



















Mar 30, 2013 at 05:50 PM
alwang
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p.2 #3 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


philber wrote:
Alwang, as long as you are listing good NEX lenses, I feel the following should be added:
Sigma 30mm, Very good indeed, ridiculously good for the money, especially if you still can get hold of the kit with the 19mm.
Sony 35mm f:3.5 macro. Slow, but cheap and good.
Sony 50mm f:1.8: the best of the Sony primes.
Released but not shipping yet: Sony 20mm pancake, 3 Zeiss primes (12mm f:2.8, 30mm, 60mm macro, IMMS)


I agree, I was just thinking wide angles, but above 35 equiv, there are any number of excellent lenses for NEX, both adapted and native. the Sony 35/1.8 is also very good; that might actually be the best of the Sony primes.



Mar 30, 2013 at 06:12 PM
LightShow
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p.2 #4 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


galenapass wrote:
I have lost confidence in Canon and their product "innovation". I think this is a sentiment shared by many, if I read correctly. I would be much less interested in what Canon will do and more so with regard to Fuji or Sony, who are producing very interesting sensors with good DR at low ISO.

I too have been disappointed with their released(other then the 1DX), the reason they have been beating the dead horse that is their 18MP sensor is because I don't think Canons new sensor process was ready for the last few releases, so rather than release nothing they released marginal improvements to the bodies and FW, and I think the 7DII will be the first with the new process, till it's released, I don't think you can really rule them out(sensor wise).



Mar 30, 2013 at 07:28 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #5 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


galenapass wrote:
I have lost confidence in Canon and their product "innovation". I think this is a sentiment shared by many, if I read correctly. I would be much less interested in what Canon will do and more so with regard to Fuji or Sony, who are producing very interesting sensors with good DR at low ISO.


Right now, yes, although I am sure they will be back one day. One thing I am not sure about is their colour. Both Fuji and Sony have much nicer colour than Canon and Nikon.



Mar 30, 2013 at 07:44 PM
Taylor Sherman
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p.2 #6 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


Andrew Gough wrote:
Personally, the NEX7 does come quite close to a full frame, but for full size use, like printing, no way. For web use its fine, but like all NEX's it has a grain structure imparted by the 2.5mm glass moire filter in front of the sensor. I find this effect very difficult to process out. It does not always show up, but I have seen it even with very high quality alternative lenses as well as native glass.

I would buy the new rebel SL1 and stick a zoom on it if I was you. You would then be
...Show more

Do you have any examples? I ask this not as a challenge but because I'm using the Nex-7 and in fact have made some 20x30 prints for an upcoming show. With the 21mm Super-Elmar I get a bit of smearing in the extreme corners, but that's about it. Anything else I've been unhappy with I've attributed to imperfect focus or lack of good sharpening technique (I've just let LR4 do "sharpen for print" for me).But I'm not sure what the grain structure thing you're talking about is so I don't know what to look for.




Mar 30, 2013 at 08:06 PM
john_edwards
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p.2 #7 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


One thing I can say is my 1ds2 w/ ze21 is better than the 5n/cv15, at least for clarity. Only if the new ziess 12 is as good as the 21 will I dump the 1ds2. But I do like the small size of that combo.


Mar 30, 2013 at 08:47 PM
Gyroscope
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p.2 #8 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


LightShow wrote:
I would wait to see what Canon do for their next EOS M body, and also wait to see what the soon to be released NEX-7N & Zeiss 12mm AF lens can do, they may be the combo to beat for landscapes.


Yes I had thought of this myself. If Canon do an M with better AF and a viewfinder it would be temprting to be able to use my existing lenses with it. However the idea was to save weight and use smaller lenses too. I could always use my canon lenses with an adaptor on the sony if I wanted to.



Mar 30, 2013 at 09:12 PM
Gyroscope
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p.2 #9 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


Thanks for all responses so far - food for thought. My most used landscape lens over the years has been my 17-40 so would something euqivalent to this in a zoom or at least a couple of good primes around 19 and 35mm. My most used lens lately though has been the 24mm ts-e II. I guess I could still use this with an adaptor if I wanted to.

I would also want a really good 'std' zoom range for landscape work as well as for general walk around stuff. I am ruling out te Oly as I can't bring myself to get a camera with such a small sensor.

The NEX 7 is sounding better and better and their lens range seems to be increasing pretty quick so maybe to be more specific what would be the best 2 or 3 lens kit for this camera with at least 1 std zoom?

Also what filter systems do you all use? I guess my z-pro system will be fine with the right lens adaptor.



Mar 30, 2013 at 09:22 PM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #10 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


frezeiss wrote:
The ricoh GXR seems to be the best platform for M lenses.


Aside from actual RF's, you're right, for some lenses and/or some shooting scenarios. With prices falling, I picked A GXR up with the idea that it'd be a great pano camera I could use to get the best corner-to-corner performance out of some of my favorite lenses without have to overlap frames greatly and saving a little hard drive space in the process. And I was right. The only real ding against it in this regard is the way-off-center placement of the tripod mount, which I'm hoping can be overcome with a generic L plate, but the hand held test panos have stitched together seamlessly. And you can add a cabled release, unlike Sony. I like the single-shot landscapes I'm getting out of it, too, but high resolution isn't a high priority for me. Single frames print beautifully uprezed to 17x22, and that's about as demanding as I get. So if you like RF wides, don't want to pop for a digital M or shoot film, don't mind only having 12MP, and are mostly interested in shooting sharp, detailed landscapes at low ISOs, it's a great choice.

For everything else, I can't reach for the NEX-7 fast enough.



Mar 30, 2013 at 09:55 PM
 

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bmwrider75
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p.2 #11 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


I would at least try the Oly (borrow one, or something) before ruling it out. Not that I have anything invested in your decision, of course, but I've had FF Canons and Nikons, and the files from the OMD (WITH QUALITY lenses, not the kit lens) are ridiculously sharp and clean.

Whether or not they would meet your needs, I'm not sure, as I'm not really a landscape photographer. I can say when I zoom in on my landscape shots, though, the detail and crispness from the OMD amazes me.




Mar 30, 2013 at 10:11 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #12 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


People in Sony land love the 24mm f1.8 Sonnar for NEX despite the cost..the new design trio from Zeiss for NEX and Fuji are going to be very modern (read expensive), and very likely fantastic performing lenses. Don't forget Zeiss are on a mission to 'keep up with' the high res sensors in APS-C as well as for res monsters like the D800.

Zeiss is doing for Sony/Fuji in APS-C mirrorless what they have done for Canon/Nikon in DSLR FF. For a guy used to using a 17-40 I doubt you can go far wrong with what people are listing here.



Mar 30, 2013 at 10:29 PM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #13 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


Gyroscope wrote:
The NEX 7 is sounding better and better and their lens range seems to be increasing pretty quick so maybe to be more specific what would be the best 2 or 3 lens kit for this camera with at least 1 std zoom?

Also what filter systems do you all use? I guess my z-pro system will be fine with the right lens adaptor.


Do your primes need to be AF? Are you looking for 19 and 35mm FF equivalents or those specific focal lengths?

For your zoom, you could go with the 10-18/4, which looks like a strong performer and gives you OSS in a wide angle, which could come in handy, but you're going to run into the inherent problem of ultrawides on crop bodies. To get to a 15mm FoV, you have to induce the distortion necessary for a 10mm FoV. That's going to have a (hopefully correctable or, if it's to your taste, desirable) impact on the photo. It seems to me like you'd be better off with the Speedbooster and your 17-40, giving you roughly a 19mm FoV with a 17mm's distortion while getting a stop more light on the sensor. It wouldn't be as small or light as the 10-18, and you'll lose AF, but I'm betting you'd be happier with the results.



Mar 30, 2013 at 10:46 PM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #14 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


philip_pj wrote:
the new design trio from Zeiss for NEX and Fuji are going to be very modern (read expensive)


But with real and actual aperture rings! I've got my fingers crossed for mechanical MF, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Much.



Mar 30, 2013 at 10:50 PM
itai195
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p.2 #15 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


From what Zeiss posted on Facebook a while back: "prices haven't been set yet but a good yardstick would be the Sonnar T* E 1.8/24". A bit pricey, but I can live with that if the quality is there. Also, I believe the aperture rings are only on the X mount models.


Mar 30, 2013 at 10:56 PM
freaklikeme
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p.2 #16 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


No! Say it ain't so!

NEX users deserve aperture rings, too.



Mar 30, 2013 at 11:17 PM
galenapass
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p.2 #17 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


Glenn NK wrote:
Considering the time and effort DRP puts into this, it would surprise me if the samples were OOF.

It's possible I suppose.

And yes, one must also consider the lenses, but assuming the samples are focused properly, then the good results for the Olympus shouldn't be resulst obtained with a bad lens.

Something is getting them results that are competitive with a 5DII (I usually change the default cameras in the comparisons to compare models I'm interested in and so that I have a reference - in my case the reference being a 5DII.).

Renting is not an option where I live, but
...Show more
OK - I am new to the world of mirrorless cameras or 4/3 sensors (just started reading reviews etc), but, I am shocked by the OM-D output on DPR when compared with a 5DII. There really appears to be no difference up to ~1600 to 3200 ISO, and from such a small sensor!!!?? Is this true, do others that own both cameras see the same thing?



Mar 31, 2013 at 12:02 AM
itai195
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p.2 #18 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


freaklikeme wrote:
No! Say it ain't so!

NEX users deserve aperture rings, too.


Heh, well I could be wrong but that's how it looks from the photos they've posted so far.



Mar 31, 2013 at 12:08 AM
Gyroscope
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p.2 #19 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


freaklikeme wrote:
Do your primes need to be AF? Are you looking for 19 and 35mm FF equivalents or those specific focal lengths?

For your zoom, you could go with the 10-18/4, which looks like a strong performer and gives you OSS in a wide angle, which could come in handy, but you're going to run into the inherent problem of ultrawides on crop bodies. To get to a 15mm FoV, you have to induce the distortion necessary for a 10mm FoV. That's going to have a (hopefully correctable or, if it's to your taste, desirable) impact on the photo. It seems to
...Show more

No AF is not essential for primes. I am used to liveview manual focusing with my 24 ts-e. i hadn't thought about the extra distortion of ultra wide. I guess a 24mm equivalent FL would be enough for most of my purposes.



Mar 31, 2013 at 12:12 AM
kewlcanon
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p.2 #20 · Replace DSLR with mirrorless? - mainly landscapes.


For landscapes. consider Sigma DPx Merrill too if you don't mind fixed lens.


Mar 31, 2013 at 12:15 AM
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