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Archive 2013 · ProPhoto RGB
  
 
Brad Williams
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p.1 #1 · ProPhoto RGB


I recently purchased a Photoshop tutorial from a well known photographer. In that tutorial, they said to always use "ProPhoto RGB" when converting Raw Files in CS6. However I have notices that when I post those particular photos on certain websites, the colors really change. Here is one photo converted 3 different ways. Why would some websites mess up the colors on some conversions and others not?

Thanks for you help,
Brad

ProPhoto RGB


Adobe RGB (1998)


sRGB IEC61966-2.1



Mar 27, 2013 at 02:58 AM
Brad Williams
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p.1 #2 · ProPhoto RGB


Here is an example of what I am talking about

http://pinterest.com/bradwphoto/test/



Mar 27, 2013 at 03:09 AM
WAYCOOL
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p.1 #3 · ProPhoto RGB


Some web browsers are not profile aware and some web sites convert photos on import stripping the profile info in the process. The best thing to do is convert to sRGB the web standard before you post.


Mar 27, 2013 at 03:10 AM
hugowolf
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p.1 #4 · ProPhoto RGB


The idea is to use ProPhotoRGB, or a wide gamut space, as a working space. When saving the image as a jpeg for web use, then sRGB is far safer. Many web browsers are not well color managed: Firefox is probably the best managed, IE9 and 10 arenít bad, but others are much worse and will be unable to display a ProPhotoRGB image well.

Apart from anything else, an image in a wide gamut space really needs more than the 8 bits per channel that jpeg offers.

Brian A



Mar 27, 2013 at 03:11 AM
Brad Williams
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p.1 #5 · ProPhoto RGB


Awesome! Thanks for the Advise!



Mar 27, 2013 at 03:15 AM
hugowolf
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p.1 #6 · ProPhoto RGB


Some links that may prove useful:
http://schewephoto.com/sRGB-VS-PPRGB/
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/prophoto-rgb.shtml#
http://www.outbackphoto.com/color_management/cm_06/essay.html
http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/prophoto-rgb.html
http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles1203/mh1203-1.html

Brian A



Mar 27, 2013 at 03:15 AM
Brad Williams
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p.1 #7 · ProPhoto RGB


Cool, Thanks again Brian!

Brad



Mar 27, 2013 at 03:24 AM
 

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skibum5
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p.1 #8 · ProPhoto RGB


You need to use a good browser, such as Firefox, that is fully color-managed.


Mar 28, 2013 at 12:25 AM
skibum5
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p.1 #9 · ProPhoto RGB


WAYCOOL wrote:
Some web browsers are not profile aware and some web sites convert photos on import stripping the profile info in the process. The best thing to do is convert to sRGB the web standard before you post.


Unless the photo badly needs it. In that case it is high time people started posting in something other than the restrictive sRGB. Put a warning on it instructing viewers how to view it properly. Although if you want to make sure every joe blow sees it at least pseudo-properly then you should convert to sRGB just to eb sure.

Sadly zenfolio and smumug ban wide gamut formats, a total, utter disgrace, photographers should be leading the charge in color-management and yet they are THE worst culprits of all in holding us back. You need to use Flickr or something else to host wide gamut galleries. The other two auto-force convert everything even when you 100% absolutely do not it converted.




Mar 28, 2013 at 12:28 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #10 · ProPhoto RGB


To advocate for posting large gamut images on the web is counterproductive and only causes more problems than it could possibly solve. The defacto web color standard has been and still is sRGB and that's a fine standard for online viewing. The majority of monitors being used today are still approximately sRGB in their gamut and can't display anything more than sRGB anyway, and there are NO monitors that can display anything close to ProPhoto and none likely to be able to do that any time soon. The simple reality is that most images don't contain much useful detail beyond what sRGB is giving you and if you do careful comparisons, there is rarely any real benefit for any online viewing. Even in what is considered large gamut printing, the real world differences are so slight as to not really matter. Yes, of course, on certain images, you can make a case for using a larger gamut color space, but we're not really missing anything of import for online viewing using sRGB.

Now add to that that so many people have (for whatever reason) adopted Chrome as their default browser, only exacerbates the problem, as it's not color managed and cannot be made that way. I guess the Google generation doesn't give a shit about accurate color but that's the way it is for now. If you start posting ProPhoto images and viewing them with Chrome, they're going to look mighty flat.

Stick with sRGB. Embed your profiles. Use color managed browsers and hosting sites. Everything will be just fine.



Mar 29, 2013 at 07:41 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #11 · ProPhoto RGB


+1@ Peter (and others)
Maybe this very crude analogy will help.


You speak in your native language of English (or other) and the volume of words that are available for you to use in the your command of the language is immense and you can express yourself with incredibly exacting detail using a vocabulary that contains everything from Einstein's Theory of Relativity to "Cat in the Hat" and all points in between.

You go speak to a group of Ph.D.s in astrophysics to tell them about your the theory of infinite universe expansion and beyond. They are able to follow and value every nugget of information contained in your theory. Then you are asked to go speak to a group of middle/high school/junior college students with a much smaller vocabulary about the same.


If you use the same vocabulary for all of your audiences the same, your message will either seem to complicated or overly simplistic depending on your choice of words matched to your audience, unless you choose to match your words to the words the audience can understand. Now, lets say that you choose to speak to the students with the same advanced technical level as you would the Ph.D.s, but their teacher/professor is present, willing and able to interrupt the vocabulary of your presentation in order to translate some of the vocabulary into terminology that the students can relate to. Sometimes it is an excellent translation, sometimes it is off by a little bit, but they still get the majority of with the benefit of the vocabulary interpretation (dependent upon the skill of the interpreting teacher).


Now, you have your choice as to how to decide to present to the students:

A) you can speak to them the same as you would the Ph.D.s and the message is "out of whack" for the students.
B) you can speak to them the same as you would the Ph.D.s and allow their teacher to interpret/translate those parts that seem "whack" to the students, risking some improper interpretation, but that vast majority of it being properly translated.
C) you can review/tailor your original/native presentation to fit within the context of the student audience you are going to deliver your message to.


When we work in ProPhoto we are working in an "expanded" color space (vocabulary) that is too large for everyone (web) to understand. When we present to the world, their ability to understand such a large range is (almost universally) limited to (sRGB). So we can:

A) present our image in ProPhoto, with some of it being "out of whack" for those (unmanaged) browsers that have poor interpretation capabilities the masses are using.
B) present our image in ProPhoto and hope that some browsers (color managed) can properly interpret/translate it.
C) convert our original ProPhoto message/image to sRGB (and imbed) to ensure that everyone gets it the same (even on unmanaged browsers).


While there may be some modicum of technical losses when we convert our ProPhoto RGB to sRGB prior to presenting it to the masses, we have the most control over ensuring that our presentation is being received in the closest to its fullness as possible through performing our own conversion ... rather than hoping for someone else to do it properly. On occasion, I feel the need to make some tweaks/refinements after conversion from ProPhoto RGB to sRGB. Yet, many times it appears virtually indistinguishable (for the pragmatic uses of universal screen viewing).

Looking at the images in the screen shot, it would seem that the images may have been established to their respective color spaces via "Assign Profile", rather than "Convert to Profile". The differences are noticeably "flatter" in the Adobe RGB and sRGB. Taking a ProPhoto RGB file and assigning it to sRGB will yield a noticeably difference. Converting it to sRGB will retain it much more similar to the ProPhoto RGB version, except as needed to accommodate those colors that are out of the sRGB color space. Those that are contained within the sRGB color space typically convert very well. It can also be helpful to check the "flatten image" when making the conversion.



As long as you save the converted file "save as" something other than the ProPhoto RGB version, you can have two (or more) versions ... just like having one presentation for the Ph.D. astrophysicists, and one for the students with their limited vocabulary ... so you haven't really "lost" anything, you just made it so that more of others can understand it within the context of their limited capability.

HTH








Edited on Mar 30, 2013 at 07:57 PM · View previous versions



Mar 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM
anthonygh
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p.1 #12 · ProPhoto RGB


I suspect this is only worth bothering about if you have a business website and need images to look their very best.....e.g. for online sales or to get work.

You might assume that other professionals are viewing your stuff with a fully calibrated monitor / browser...... but most general viewers probably aren't. So no matter how stressed one gets by this.....it won't have much impact on the average viewer. Therefor, stick to sRGB as that will present the best web experience in most instances.

I usually get PS to convert my images to web files and I think that what I see via Firefox on an iMac monitor (calibrated) is pretty close to the full size processed image.



Mar 30, 2013 at 03:46 PM
Hendrik
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p.1 #13 · ProPhoto RGB


http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/85/January%202005%20-%20ProPhoto%20or%20ConPhoto


Mar 30, 2013 at 07:26 PM





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