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Archive 2013 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?
  
 
mttran
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


imo, get one that fits your pocket. They are all good cam


Mar 25, 2013 at 04:01 PM
G-Gore
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?



Who said anything about weddings? OP is taking photographs of his family.


He mentioned an important family event - that can be as stressful/hectic as wedding.



Mar 25, 2013 at 05:56 PM
SeattleBirdMan
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


If you don't feel the need to carry two bodies at once then I would sell the 7D and get the 5D3. I shoot birds, mammals and sports.

You won't be missing anything on pixels on target with the new firmware. You can alwasy add an extender to what ever you would have on the 7D which given the will get you within 2% of the same pixels on target as the 7D. The focus is more accurate on the 5D3. Because you will be losing a stop of light when adding an extra extender compared to the 7D you will sometimes need to bump the ISO 1 stop. However, the 5D3 is at least 1 stop better (probably a bit more) than the 7D so your files will have no more noise.

The only thing you really lose is going from 8fps max to 6fps. Another alternative is to buy a used 1D4 and sell the 7D. Some similarities in terms of noise to 5D3 but it is faster. It focuses at f8 and with its pixel density you can get 10% more pixels on the subject than the 7D when adding the extender. Video on the 1D4 is not as convenient and it doesn't have the spot focus option either like the 7d or 5D3.




Mar 25, 2013 at 06:12 PM
uz2work
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


SeattleBirdMan wrote:
You won't be missing anything on pixels on target with the new firmware. You can alwasy add an extender to what ever you would have on the 7D which given the will get you within 2% of the same pixels on target as the 7D.



You need to check your math on that one. If you take pictures with the same lens with a 7D and a 5D Mark III and crop the 5D Mark III file down to the same field of view as the uncropped 7D file, that cropped 5D Mark III file will only have about 9 MP compared to the 18 MP of the uncropped 7D file. That is because the 1.6 crop factor has both a horizontal and vertical component to it. Thus, you need to divide the 23 MP of the 5D Mark III by 1.6 squared to determine how many pixels would be in a 5D Mark III file cropped to the field of view of the 7D. Adding a 1.4x to the 5D Mark III is still going to leave you with only about 2/3 of the pixels on the subject as you would have with the 7D and no extender. And, as you point out, if you do add that 1.4x to the 5D Mark III and lose a stop of light, you are also going to lose much/most of the noise advantage that the 5D Mark III starts out with, as well as much/most of the image quality advantage that the 5D Mark III starts out with. While I would not think to question whether the 5D Mark III has advantages over the 7D in many shooting situations, you are denying reality if you want to think that the 7D doesn't have advantages when shooting in focal length-limited situations where cropping is going to be a reality. In those long lens situations, if you want to maintain the 5D Mark III's advantages, you are going to need to use a considerably longer (and heavier) lens than you need to use with the 7D. While I have no question that 5D Mark III individual pixels are of a higher quality than individual 7D pixels and while I might expect, say, 16 million 5D Mark III pixels to have better image quality than 18 million 7D pixels, if my choice is to have 18 million 7D pixels or 9 million 5D Mark III pixels, I'll take the 18 million 7D pixels without hesitation.

That said, it may well be the choice that, overall, the 5D Mark III is the best single camera choice for the OP, but that doesn't mean that using it instead of the 7D in focal length-limited situations won't be a situation in which he will lose some capabilities.



Mar 25, 2013 at 06:39 PM
RogerC11
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


The point of mixing cards is still moot. All one needs to do is designate right pocket for cf and sd in left pocket. Work smarter not harder


Mar 25, 2013 at 07:58 PM
tuantran
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


I remember shooting a wedding with only 64MB. We managed to shoot through a lot of weddings swapping cards. Now, a 32GB can hold how many shots? Is it so hard to check the remaining count when you have even a tiny 1 min break?




Mar 25, 2013 at 08:37 PM
SeattleBirdMan
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


uz2work wrote:
You need to check your math on that one. If you take pictures with the same lens with a 7D and a 5D Mark III and crop the 5D Mark III file down to the same field of view as the uncropped 7D file, that cropped 5D Mark III file will only have about 9 MP compared to the 18 MP of the uncropped 7D file. That is because the 1.6 crop factor has both a horizontal and vertical component to it. Thus, you need to divide the 23 MP of the 5D Mark III by 1.6 squared to determine
...Show more


Let's use a specific example 7D with 400f5.6 and 5D3 with 400f5.6 and 1.4 extender. If on the 7D the bird is 1000 pixels tall how tall will it be on the 5D3.

First take the 5D3 vertical Pixels and divide by 7d vertical pixels = 3,840/3,456 = 1.11% pixel on the 5D3 in one direction compared to 7D.

Now multiply 1.11 by 1.4 (Extender added to 5D3) = 1.56

Now compare to crop factor = 1.56 / 1.6 = 97.5%

Therefore, your bird on a 5D3 in this example would be 975 pixels tall compared to the 1,000 on the 7D.

On the 5D3 focus will be more consistent, noise will be a slight bit better and the file will be easier to process.

Since this is the toughest scenario where people are hesitant to use a 5D3 over a 7D in my mind the choice is easy. I choose the 5D3 over the 7D in every situation.

Here are a couple real life examples of how this exact combination works (extender is Kenko since software is not releases).

5D3 400f5.6 with Kenko 1.4x

First Flight by seattlebirdman, on Flickr


Sky Patrol by seattlebirdman, on Flickr





Mar 25, 2013 at 09:21 PM
thedutt
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Awesome shots Doug. While I dont have the 7D, I have 5DIII & T2i (presumably similar sensor to 7D). Even in reach limited situations (birding) I almost exclusively reach for 5DIII. Per pixel sharpness even with 1.4x or 2x on the 5DIII is giving me better results than T2i in "most" situations (ISO800 and up).



Mar 25, 2013 at 09:38 PM
uz2work
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


SeattleBirdMan wrote:
Let's use a specific example 7D with 400f5.6 and 5D3 with 400f5.6 and 1.4 extender. If on the 7D the bird is 1000 pixels tall how tall will it be on the 5D3.

First take the 5D3 vertical Pixels and divide by 7d vertical pixels = 3,840/3,456 = 1.11% pixel on the 5D3 in one direction compared to 7D.

Now multiply 1.11 by 1.4 (Extender added to 5D3) = 1.56

Now compare to crop factor = 1.56 / 1.6 = 97.5%

Therefore, your bird on a 5D3 in this example would be 975 pixels tall compared to the 1,000 on the 7D.

On the 5D3
...Show more

(note that, after posting, I realized that my explanation in the first part of this post is not correct, and I have corrected my error in a subsequent post.)

No, your math is wrong again. The 1.4x is not increasing the field of view by 1.4x in both the horizontal and vertical directions. It is increasing the total focal length by 1.4x. The increase in terms of increased horizontal size or increased vertical size is the square root of 1.4x, which is 1.18. If you do your calculations and replace your 1.4 with 1.18, the 5D Mark III will have about .8 times the number of horizontal pixels as the 7D, and it will have about.8 times the number of vertical pixels. When you multiply .8 times .8, the total number of pixels on the subject with the 5D Mark III and a 1.4x will be about 64% of what you would have with the 7D and the bare lens, which is consistent with what I said earlier when I said that the 5D Mark III with a 1.4x is still only going to put about 2/3 the number of pixels on the subject as the 7D will with the bare lens.

Further, you have the option of using the 7D with a 1.4x, too, and if you use both bodies with the same lens and a 1.4x, you will only be putting roughly 1/2 as many pixels on the subject with the 5D Mark III combination as you will be putting on the subject with the 7D combination.

I will avoid the temptation of posting bird-in-flight shots taken with the 7D and a bare 400 mm lens because they would take the thread further off topic and would prove nothing. Only comparisons of the same subject taken from the same distance would be meaningful, and the web is full of such comparisons that show the advantages of the 7D in focal length-limited situations. The point of my post is not to contend that you can't take good bird-in-flight pictures with a 5D Mark III. Nor is it to claim that a 5D Mark III can't do better at a many types of photography than a 7D. Instead, it is, as I said in my previous post, to point out that you cannot deny, either with correct math or with actual photo comparisons of the same subject taken from the same distance, that the 7D gives advantages in focal length-limited situations. Further, I fail to understand why some cannot accept the possibility that, while an excellent camera, such as the 5D Mark III, is capable of doing better than another camera in many situations, it may not be able to do better in all situations. If you wish to use faulty math to convince yourself of something that isn't true, be my guest. I don't expect to convince you that you don't have the perfect camera for absolutely every type of photography. Others, however, might be interested in a more balanced assessment and one that is not based on faulty math.




Edited on Mar 25, 2013 at 11:46 PM · View previous versions



Mar 25, 2013 at 10:18 PM
SeattleBirdMan
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


uz2work wrote:
No, your math is wrong again. The 1.4x is not increasing the field of view by 1.4x in both the horizontal and vertical directions. It is increasing the total focal length by 1.4x. The increase in terms of increased horizontal size or increased vertical size is the square root of 1.4x, which is 1.18. If you do your calculations and replace your 1.4 with 1.18, the 5D Mark III will have about .8 times the number of horizontal pixels as the 7D, and it will have about.8 times the number of vertical pixels. When you multiply .8 times .8, the
...Show more

When you increase the focal length by x% it magnifies the subject in both horizontal and vertical directions by the same % each. This is why people say you get 144% more pixels on your subject by using a 600mm compared to a 500mm lens.

1.4 is not arbitrary number the manufacturers use on their extenders. It is the square root of 2. The light entering is measured by area, so when you add a 1.4 extender you cut down the area by half because it affects both horizontal and vertical.

Regarding the images I simply posted those to show that this combo can work well and I am not just a keyboard jockey.I'm sure people have taken better photos with the 7D and 400f5.6. After alll the photographer's skill is a huge variable in the final outcome.





Mar 25, 2013 at 10:46 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



uz2work
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


SeattleBirdMan wrote:
When you increase the focal length by x% it magnifies the subject in both horizontal and vertical directions by the same % each. This is why people say you get 144% more pixels on your subject by using a 600mm compared to a 500mm lens.

1.4 is not arbitrary number the manufacturers use on their extenders. It is the square root of 2. The light entering is measured by area, so when you add a 1.4 extender you cut down the area by half because it affects both horizontal and vertical.

Regarding the images I simply posted those to show that this
...Show more

Actually, what you said above is correct, and my earlier explanation was not, but your statement that the difference in the total number of pixels being only 2 1/2% is still wrong. It is 2 1/2% horizontally and 2 1/2% vertically. That amounts to roughly a 6% total difference. While that difference is a relatively small one, it still ignores the fact that you can still use the same 1.4x with the 7D, and, if you do that, you would be down to only 9 million pixels on the 5D Mark III + lens + 1.4x image that is cropped to the same field of view that you would get with the 7D + lens + 1.4x compared to the 18 million pixels that you would have with the uncropped 7D image. I offer my apology for my errors and for adding confusion to the discussion. I still, however, will hold to the point that the 7D will give an advantage in a focal length-limited situation based on the fact that, with the same lens-extender combination, you will still be putting twice as many pixels on the subject with the 7D compared to what you would with the 5D Mark III.




Mar 25, 2013 at 11:34 PM
SeattleBirdMan
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


uz2work wrote:
Actually, what you said above is correct, and my earlier explanation was not, but your statement that the difference in the total number of pixels being only 2 1/2% is still wrong. It is 2 1/2% horizontally and 2 1/2% vertically. That amounts to roughly a 6% total difference. While that difference is a relatively small one, it still ignores the fact that you can still use the same 1.4x with the 7D, and, if you do that, you would be down to only 9 million pixels on the 5D Mark III + lens + 1.4x image that is cropped
...Show more

No worries uz2work.

Regarding getting a 7D to focus at f8, I have never had much luck using either taped pins or a non-reporting extender. My biggest surprise with the 5D3 was that it actually focused well and quickly at f8 (using a non reporting TC). If a person is using a 300 f2.8 lens I would choose the 7D since I would prefer not to stack a 2x and 1.4 extender on a 5D3.

But if you are using an f4 lens like a 500 or 600 then you can use a doubler on the 5D3 (once the firmware is updated) but only a 1.4 on the 7D. This is certainly a subjective call but I like the 5D3 in this situation. I still have my 7D but I just don't use it anymore.



Mar 26, 2013 at 12:04 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Re UZ2 v SBM: My back of the envelope calculation is ((5760/5184)*1.4)/1.6 = .972 or 5D3 + 1.4x has 97% of the 7D's resolution. This of course assumes that the 1.4x magnification works equivalently on FOV as a 1.4 crop factor would. So I'm agreeing with SBM. Of course I won't get rid of my 7D until I can compare them after the firmware update.

And this is when you are reach limited. If not, my 5D2 gives me consistently better images from my 100-400 than my
7D does. The f8 firmware promise is what pushed me over the edge to get the 5D3.



Mar 26, 2013 at 12:14 AM
beetlefang
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Hi,

Just a quick update - the 5Dmk3 has landed. UPS dropped her off today.

I've spent most of the evening reading the book and setting up my settings and habitually pressing the menu button instead of the q button (they are in different places on the 5d and the 7d).

Cycling through the menus are quite different, so I'm still getting used to that.

I still need to get some sd cards. It came with a 16gig cf card and I have 3 larger cf cards from my 7d to place in rotation. I'm glad that the batteries can swap out, so now I have a total of 4 batteries to use between the two bodies.

I'm playing with the hdr mode and it turns off after each series of pics? I was hoping to have one of the custom functions set to hdr mode so I could just use it in that fashion as needed. How it is now I need to put it on my custom menu...

My lenses seem really different on the 5d vs the 7d. And, the colors seem more vibrant in the 5d vs the 7d even though both are being shot in raw/faithful. Maybe it's just an lcd screen thing.

Anyways, thanks for the education from everyone. Now I need to get out and shoot and get familiar with the camera before the family get together. And, decide on a flash for portraits.

-John



Apr 09, 2013 at 04:36 AM
beetlefang
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Oh yeah, one big difference to me between the 5d and 7d is the magnify button on the 5d can be set to 100% which is awesome for in camera review. Just mash the button and look at the eyes. On the 7d you just pump the magnify in and out, there's no setting (that I know of) that just lets you press one time for 100% review.


Apr 09, 2013 at 04:40 AM
kezeka
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


If you are looking for the best senor at the pixel level, I think the 5D2 is cleanest (probably a weaker AA filter) of the 3. Thats pretty much the only reason I haven't upgraded to the 5D3. It just doesn't resolve as clearly as I would like:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

If you don't give a flapping duck about pixels, the 5D3 is a great all around do-everything camera. And it will run circles around your 7D in image quality at anything above ISO1600.



Apr 09, 2013 at 05:22 AM
Kmccarthy
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Get the 5DIII and sell the 7D. The 5DIII is better than the 7D in almost every way. Once you have a 5DIII you will not want to use the 7D anymore. (At least that's what happened to me). Unless you are a pro you don't really need a high-end backup camera. It will just collect dust and lose value.


Apr 11, 2013 at 01:14 AM
StillFingerz
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Here's a fairly good review of the bodies in question, except for the promotion of his book, TN takes close to an hour to look at features, compares images at low and high ISOs...hope this helps...Jerry

Canon 6D, 5D Mark III, 7D, T3i, 600D, 5D Mark II ULTIMATE Review and Comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_I9KPPdWY



Apr 11, 2013 at 01:29 AM
lowa2
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Kmccarthy wrote:
Get the 5DIII and sell the 7D. The 5DIII is better than the 7D in almost every way. Once you have a 5DIII you will not want to use the 7D anymore. (At least that's what happened to me). Unless you are a pro you don't really need a high-end backup camera. It will just collect dust and lose value.


Funny, I sold my mk2 to get the mk3 (and have the 7D). I didn't think it was worth it for me, went back to the 7D/5D2 Combo and bought a 500/4! Have been very happy ever since! They compliment eachother very well!



Apr 11, 2013 at 01:36 AM
jamato8
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 5dmk2 vs 5dmk3 vs 6d from a 7d user?


Man, some of you guys are really smart. I just shoot but some of you really got everything together.


Apr 11, 2013 at 01:43 AM
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