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Archive 2013 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?
  
 
drive_75
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p.1 #1 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


I have this couple that booked me via email. The paid 50% non-refundable. They booked me for only 4 hours. The day before their wedding, I texted the groom to make sure everything is still as scheduled. He called me back and said, by the way I hired a videographer and they also do photography. I pointed out to him on my contract that it states that I am the only Photographer. He apologize but said it was too late and that he have the other Photographer call me. Long story short. We talked and I wasn't happy because the other Photographer want me to shoot and give him my images. I decided that I should let the couple decide and if they want me to shoot 2nd then I would do just that. If they want us both to be the main photographer then I'll do that as well but it's going to be tough...who will be directing the couples(hahaha).

What would you have done? Have this happen to any of you and what did you do?



Mar 23, 2013 at 06:15 AM
amonline
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p.1 #2 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


You should have communicated much more than 24 hours out. If your contract is as stated, they are in breach. However, because you waited till the last minute, you're pretty much screwed. If you are providing digital files to the couple, the other photographer will get them, regardless. This whole thing boils down to flawed communication. There's very little you can do this late on the game.


Mar 23, 2013 at 08:37 AM
DavidM5
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p.1 #3 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


That is alsolutely bizarre that the other photographer wants you to hand over your images!
I would never do it.

Are your prices so low that they can afford to hire another photgrapher as well?
Looks like you have been relegated to the other crew...

There has only been once that there was another paid photographer on one of my weddings.
That was because they were not that happy with the other person's photography after he shot their engagement pics.
Sine they already paid him in full they kept him as well.
It was an interesting arrangement but we kept out of each other's way.



Mar 23, 2013 at 01:58 PM
Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #4 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Well to answer your most direct question first, I would show up, be cordial to the other shooter, shoot the wedding, edit your own images and deliver them direct to the client.

But for the big picture, I would start to think through the steps that you can take to make sure things like this don't happen again. What part of your business or brand is giving the impression that the client might need someone else? How can you prevent this from happening again from a client motivation standpoint?



Mar 23, 2013 at 02:05 PM
TheGE
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p.1 #5 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


What Tony said plus it sounds like they book and you don't subsequently have any procedure that informs them of how things will be conducted and what's expected?


Mar 23, 2013 at 02:23 PM
drive_75
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p.1 #6 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


They booked me and sent me the deposit via mail. I emailed them the contract and the mailed it back to me signed. Yes I screwed up. Normally I have a consultation with the couple and I would highlight the contract points to them. I plan to show up and shoot. At the same time I don't want to make it about me or be a jerk about it. I am not expensive but not cheap. I think what may happen is that they hired me and the hired the video guy and the video guy might have sold both service on a cheap package. I know it's a tough situation especially when we shoot the couple pose and family shot.


Mar 23, 2013 at 03:25 PM
Dave_EP
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p.1 #7 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


drive_75 wrote:
I think what may happen is that they hired me and the hired the video guy and the video guy might have sold both service on a cheap package.


I agree. The video guy is probably trying to get in to photography as well, so probably offered this either free or really cheap in the hope of building a portfolio. I guess you need to watch their web site in the coming months to make sure none of your shots appear as theirs, which since they were there shooting too may all too easily happen as they mix them all up.

Definitely make sure all the EXIF stuff has your name and copyright embedded on all files you give the couple. While it's easy for people to strip this stuff, they may not think to look for it and so finding something on their site with your EXIF would be pretty damming.

Hopefully your contract deals with other people blocking your shots or generally causing you problems.



Mar 23, 2013 at 04:55 PM
NYstyles
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p.1 #8 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Im not understanding why they want your photos? You are not working for them, you are working for the couple. Sounds like newbie photo/video people. I would not do that, Id do my job and what Im contracted for. Photos are post produced and given to the couple. Period. Just do what Tony said.


Mar 23, 2013 at 05:03 PM
drive_75
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p.1 #9 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Thanks NYstyles. I'll do just that. Make a lot of sense. I'm off to the shoot and thanks for everyone's input.

Dave, yes my contract does state that no other photographer is allow to block my view and no one is to use flash while I'm taking my pictures. Also I am to be the only paid Photographer but that didn't work too well. Thanks.



Mar 23, 2013 at 05:11 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.1 #10 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


The fact that the video guys felt entitled to your photos suggests the client may have developed a plan with them to use your images in one or more products the video guys create.

What kind of license (or rights) does your contract provide to the client? Does the client have license to print your images? Distribute the images? Is the license transferable?

Consider whether you want to make it clear to the client (and whether your contract puts you in the position to establish the requirement) that
1) the images are not for use by third parties at all, or else that
2) anyone else making a product using or including your images must use watermarked images, provide clear image credits.

I'd have two concerns. First, I'd want the client to decide and clearly establish which of you is the "primary" photographer for posing and formals and whatnot. Second, I'd want to be certain these other guys do not ever present your images as their own.



Mar 23, 2013 at 08:20 PM
 

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Mark_L
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p.1 #11 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Dave_EP wrote:
I agree. The video guy is probably trying to get in to photography as well, so probably offered this either free or really cheap in the hope of building a portfolio. I guess you need to watch their web site in the coming months to make sure none of your shots appear as theirs, which since they were there shooting too may all too easily happen as they mix them all up.

Definitely make sure all the EXIF stuff has your name and copyright embedded on all files you give the couple. While it's easy for people to strip this
...Show more

This x100

If your coverage is only 4hrs you'd think there would be an easy agreement to be reached where he would cover the rest but I imagine like Dave suggests he probably offered coverage free for portfolio building and will never agree to this.

Edit: Also, register all the images from this wedding with the copyright people asap so you collect and he has his ass handed to him if he passes any of your pictures off as his own.


Edited on Mar 23, 2013 at 09:21 PM · View previous versions



Mar 23, 2013 at 09:18 PM
Jamesbjenkins
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p.1 #12 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Your contract is just a piece of paper unless you enforce it. Your lack of communication likely caused this, which it sounds like you've learned the hard way.

It stinks, but you've received good advice here. As for the other photog, just be nice but firm. If he directly gets in your way, address it firmly. Don't let him affect your work and BURY him if he steals your images.



Mar 23, 2013 at 09:19 PM
drive_75
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p.1 #13 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Mark,
Yes it seems like you are correct. He did both video and photo and he got the same rate as I do for both.

James,
You are correct. I was too nice and it's because I didn't have a consultation with the couple even tough it's in my contract. I will have to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Ian,
Thanks for the input. I will make sure all my images have my info embedded. We agree that we each get half hour to work with the couple. It suck because he ran long and I end up with 10 minutes but I let the groom know and that he can't expect many of the usual formal post photos. My contract does state that the couple have print right only. They are not allow to share and post on the web without my approval. It's very clear.

Thanks all. It wasn't the best day but I did managed to get through without too much damage. Lesson learned.



Mar 24, 2013 at 04:12 AM
julieawhitlock
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p.1 #14 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


I'm glad you got through it well. Don't beat yourself up too much. Honestly? Who really thinks this is going to happen. I ask if they will be hiring video but I'd never think to come right out and say " hey, you planning on hiring another photographer too?" Especially when it is in your contract. I've had a couple video guys try to sneak in some stills for the " video cover". Other that that if I see shutters clicking I give the stink eye. Your only mistake is you should have gone first with the couple. And used ALL the time haha!


Mar 24, 2013 at 03:23 PM
CraigB1960
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p.1 #15 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


That certainly is a bad situation. Upfront communicate, even spelling it out in email helps. I make each client initial every page of my contract and I do discuss me being the primary and only professional photographer allowed. I am seeing a lot more of this stuff going on. Everyone with a digital camera thinks they can be a wedding photographer. I have also seen videographers start using DSLR's with video capability sell photographs off that video. They even claim it is hi-resolution, which it is not....only HD video quality.

I might of shot the wedding as well, however it does concern me that you only had 10 minutes for formals and did not shoot everything that normally gets done. (BTW, I would of gone first with the formals....going back to primary photographer). I hope you had the Groom sign off on your formals and lack of time. Because they could sue in the end, especially if the videographer/photographer does a lousy job with the photographs. It is very important to uphold your own contract, so that is why I said, I might of. By attending, you knowingly validated your own contract.

I always have my copyright in the EXIF, but I stopped fighting the social media on posting. I used to require permission, but I found it impossible to police. Now, I allow posting images on social media (even encourage it...free advertising), but insist they give me credit and preferable a link back to my website and/or facebook page. Couples like that.

I never give rights away for them to hand out to 3rd parties and would never agree to handing them over to the videographer to edit and use. That is crazy. I certainly would reinforce your restrictions for use when you had it over to the couple (have them sign a copyright user release form) and perhaps even send a letter or email to the videographer that he does not have the right to use your images, even if the couple try to share them with him.

As pointed out by someone else, on this wedding I would go the extra mile and register them with the copyright office. Contracts can only be upheld in court when you uphold them.

So, even though you got through the wedding, it ain't over yet.
Regards,
Craig



Mar 24, 2013 at 05:46 PM
drive_75
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p.1 #16 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


Julie,
Yes I should have gone first. I thought I could let the other guy go first and he can do all other boring shots with bridesmaid, groomsmen, family and then I get the couple for all the fun shots.

Unfortunately it didn't go my way.

Craig,
Thanks for the heads up. I know it's not over yet. I did tell the couple that they broke the contract and that I wasn't given any time for the formal. We'll see. The couple seems to be nice people.



Mar 24, 2013 at 10:34 PM
amonline
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p.1 #17 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


drive_75 wrote:
It suck because he ran long and I end up with 10 minutes but I let the groom know and that he can't expect many of the usual formal post photos...


You need to take control of your business. Sounds like they walked all over you. If you want to last, you need to lay down the law.



Mar 24, 2013 at 11:27 PM
TheGE
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p.1 #18 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


drive_75 wrote:
I end up with 10 minutes but I let the groom know and that he can't expect many of the usual formal post photos...

I did tell the couple that they broke the contract and that I wasn't given any time for the formal.


Oh boy.



Mar 25, 2013 at 01:35 AM
drive_75
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p.1 #19 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


amonline wrote:
You need to take control of your business. Sounds like they walked all over you. If you want to last, you need to lay down the law.


Good point. I will surely take your advice going forward.



Mar 25, 2013 at 07:35 AM
NathanHamler
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p.1 #20 · Couple Double book Photographers...what to do?


I kinda had the same scenario...met with a couple who were friends of mine (well, the groom was), they said they wanted to book me....so day of the wedding, i show up, and there's another guy there shooting a 5d2, entirely in live view, spraying and praying on every shot...i'm like dude what's the story, you all hired me....groom says "oh well he's one of (my wife's) friends, he offered to shoot for free, plus we'll get both perspectives at the first look"....needless to say i was pissed, didnt even acknowledge the other dude....wedding totally sucked... And my contract does state i'm the only photographer at the wedding...but good luck enforcing that on the day of...


Mar 25, 2013 at 01:05 PM
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