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Archive 2013 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280
  
 
kwalsh
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Sven Jeppesen wrote:
@ Ken,

But how many people here never shot a moving subject? Or never shot with a tele lens?
Nearly all people take photos of family, children, pets and so on that moves.


m43 has plenty of telephoto lenses. Just not wide aperture L-quality ones. So if I'm going to shoot Billy at the soccer game with a consumer zoom there really is no difference between the m43 offerings and the Canon offerings. Now, if I'm going to do BIF or shoot sports for a living well then heck yes even the best mirrorless CDAF is the wrong answer. If you want a wide aperture telephoto zoom or any telephoto prime stick with DSLRs. But if your question is how many people here don't shoot with those you'll find the answer is a whole lot. Most folks are out there with a 55-200 or maybe the 75-300 at best and those lenses are in the same class as the m43 telephoto offerings.

As to moving subjects you need to be more specific. Moving as in a sprinter charging the camera is one thing. Your kid or dog running around the room or yard is another. Having shot both I actually now find m43 to be much better for shallow DoF shooting of kids. As much as I've personally mocked face-detect over the years now for shallow DoF I'm finding face detect AF on the E-M5 to have a way higher keeper rate than any PDAF C-AF system. The E-M5 system detects the eyes and you can even select for left, right or closest eye for focus. It seems like a gimmick until you use it compared to a PDAF system with fixed AF sensors. Of course a skilled shooter with either system is going to do way better than a spray and pray shooter on either.

Right now the CDAF systems on the m43 cameras are faster in S-AF than all the Canon DSLRs and their kit lenses and even trumping some of the USM L lenses simply because everything is up against the mass of the focus group these days and the m43 lenses are designed with very low mass groups (like the STM lenses from Canon are doing). Which is shocking given how wickedly bad CDAF was in the not very distant past. The m43 C-AF tracking works comparably to entry level PDAF when subjects are moving mostly transverse to the camera. It falls apart when the subject charges the camera. That's what you miss with CDAF. And burst shooting of moving subjects as well, OVF+PDAF handles tracking focus during burst shooting vastly better. I don't run into the shooting situation very often myself but it is definitely still the handicap of CDAF. Oh, and don't even get me started on front/back focus issues with the entry level DSLRs and a shallow-DOF lens. That is one thing mirrorless has completely made a worry of the past. Maybe the newer Rebel's are better but that was a constant problem when I shot with them. In that realm my Rebel's were pretty much always wrong, fast or slow it didn't matter, just wrong.

Anywho - I digress into what is at this point probably an irrelevant discussion. I don't think the relative merits of the two systems are the subject here. My larger point was no one should kid themselves in thinking the 100D challenges the size of the mirrorless systems. It is still too big, especially with lenses. Beyond that all the same pros and cons of each system are the same as they always were.

Ken



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:13 PM
kwalsh
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Lars Johnsson wrote:
Also compare the number of lenses and accessories you can get for those two cameras.


Oh my goodness, advantage Canon by many many miles. So what? I'm not trying to say one system is better than the other. I'm saying the 100D doesn't change the equation at all. It is slightly smaller than the most recent bloated Rebels. It is still giant compared to a mirrorless camera. Nothing really new here.


And the AF performance.


Which? Tracking through bursts or accuracy? Cause the winner is different depending on what you mean.


If it's only about smallest size, then a point and shoot camera beat both those.


And a cellphone will beat all of them. And no camera will beat that. You have a point? I remember you from when I used to post here Lars. I won't waste my time any further...

Ken



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:19 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


The Olympus camera in the pics actually weight more than the Canon camera. The Canon is not a giant when comparing those cameras. (like you wrote) And the sensor is larger in the Canon camera. Which for me is a big plus. I don't know if you prefer a smaller size in the sensor also


Mar 21, 2013 at 06:20 PM
darknite
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


voltaire wrote:
I looked at the specs and it looks like the SL1 doesn't do bulb exposure. It says 30 second maximum shutter speed. Can anyone confirm this, please?

Thanks in advance, everyone.


Looking on the canon USA site, this is listed for shutter speeds
Shutter Speeds
1/4000 to 30 sec. (total shutter speed range; available range varies by shooting mode), bulb, X-sync at 1/200 sec.
* Settable in 1/3- or 1/2-stop increments.



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:32 PM
dhphoto
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


darknite wrote:
Just because a camera doesn't meet YOUR specific needs, it may be a great fit for many other people.



I think it sounds great, I didn't say otherwise, although a bit too expensive in the UK as usual



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:35 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


dhphoto wrote:
I think it sounds great, I didn't say otherwise, although a bit too expensive in the UK as usual


The price you posted was including the new lens. Yes expensive but I don't think this is the price you will see in the UK. Because in Sweden the price for that combo was lower than yours. And normally we have a higher price with a higher VAT than you



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:41 PM
dhphoto
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Lasse Eriksson wrote:
The price you posted was including the new lens. Yes expensive but I don't think this is the price you will see in the UK. Because in Sweden the price for that combo was lower than yours. And normally we have a higher price with a higher VAT than you


Yes, but the US price is also quoted with the lens, so the comparison is fair.



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:45 PM
15Bit
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Lasse Eriksson wrote:
The price you posted was including the new lens. Yes expensive but I don't think this is the price you will see in the UK. Because in Sweden the price for that combo was lower than yours. And normally we have a higher price with a higher VAT than you


With the current exchange rates that might not be the case - I noticed a couple of weeks ago that Norwegian prices are no different to UK prices now.



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:53 PM
snapsy
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


kwalsh wrote:
As to moving subjects you need to be more specific. Moving as in a sprinter charging the camera is one thing. Your kid or dog running around the room or yard is another. Having shot both I actually now find m43 to be much better for shallow DoF shooting of kids. As much as I've personally mocked face-detect over the years now for shallow DoF I'm finding face detect AF on the E-M5 to have a way higher keeper rate than any PDAF C-AF system. The E-M5 system detects the eyes and you can even select for left, right or
...Show more

I was going to write the exact same thing. Last year some friends asked me to shoot some baby photos. I took a 5DM3, D800, and a OM-D. I was expecting to use the situation to compare the AF performance of the 5DM3/D800 but after 10 shots with each I realized neither body could AF fast enough for this not-so-fast moving baby. Lighting was f/1.4 1/160 ISO 3200 mixed tungsten and both DSLRs took 3-4 seconds to lock every time. I took out the OM-D with the Pany 25mm f/1.4 and it locked focus within 1 second every shot. And even though it was close-quarter shooting I could still get adequate DOF on the OM-D @ f/1.4 whereas I'd have to stop down to f/2.8 to get the same DOF on the FF bodies, meaning in this situation the FF sensors provided zero advantage over the OM-D in terms of noise.

To everyone who hasn't tried a current-generation Olympus or Panaonsic m4/3, I think you're doing yourself a disservice. Many think these cameras are compromises in AF performance when in fact they're better than DSLRs in some situations.

Here's a photo from that session. This is the OM-D f/1.4 1/160 ISO 3200:








Mar 21, 2013 at 06:54 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Yes the comparison was fair. But I don't belive the price will be 799 GBP. Not when the price in Sweden was 40-45 GBP less than yours. And that price included our 25% VAT.
DPreview always have the same number in dollar and GBP on their website



Mar 21, 2013 at 06:57 PM
 

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michael49
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


voltaire wrote:
Very true. Good point.



Agreed. Makes no sense to me. The 40mm on FF makes sense as walk around, but not on APS-C.



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:01 PM
skibum5
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


kwalsh wrote:
m43 has plenty of telephoto lenses. Just not wide aperture L-quality ones. So if I'm going to shoot Billy at the soccer game with a consumer zoom there really is no difference between the m43 offerings and the Canon offerings. Now, if I'm going to do BIF or shoot sports for a living well then heck yes even the best mirrorless CDAF is the wrong answer. If you want a wide aperture telephoto zoom or any telephoto prime stick with DSLRs. But if your question is how many people here don't shoot with those you'll find the answer is a
...Show more

interesting



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:03 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


snapsy wrote:
I was going to write the exact same thing. Last year some friends asked me to shoot some baby photos. I took a 5DM3, D800, and a OM-D. I was expecting to use the situation to compare the AF performance of the 5DM3/D800 but after 10 shots with each I realized neither body could AF fast enough for this not-so-fast moving baby. Lighting was f/1.4 1/160 ISO 3200 mixed tungsten and both DSLRs took 3-4 seconds to lock every time. I took out the OM-D with the Pany 25mm f/1.4 and it locked focus within 1 second every shot. And
...Show more

How fast the AF is (at least with the 5D3) depends mostly on what lens you use.
And you could get both thin DOF and larger DOF with the DSLR cameras. But with the Pany you couldn't choose...........
And you should not lock the AF. Use the AI servo and the AF will follow the baby


Edited on Mar 21, 2013 at 07:11 PM · View previous versions



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:06 PM
skibum5
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


thw2 wrote:
I do not know what kind of luck or batch problem you had. But I've tried a few 18-55 IS kit lens and they are darn sharp wide-open from 18 mm to 55 mm. In fact, its wide-open performance is even better than that of the venerable 17-55 f/2.8 IS. No kidding. Contrast is not its forte but its edge-to-edge resolution is hard to beat.

Don't take my word for it. Check out Photozone MTF results.

Addendum:

17-55 f/2.8 IS (left) vs 18-55 f/3.5-6.6 IS (right). Both at 17-18 mm, f/3.5, ISO 100. Extreme right corner of image.

http://thw.smugmug.com/Other/Temp/i-JZMXkfj/0/XL/Corner%20at%20f3_5-XL.jpg


seems surprising, not so much about the 18-55 IS (I had one and it actually was pretty mad sharp corner to corner, as sharp as the Ls sorta, but something about the colors and contrast always tended to seem dull like super sharp but no bite for some reason, for the price insanely good though one of the best values for a lens ever, sure not the kit lens of days of old!)



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:07 PM
skibum5
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


StillFingerz wrote:
Here ya go Ski, there was an article out of Canon Japan that Google Chrome translated, late last night that listed the sensor as BMI-CMOS II, I can't find it now, the link is broken, Canon must have removed it, but here are two instances of a reference to BMI-CMOS...hope it helps. Jerry

Canon PowerShot SX280 HS highlight is low-light
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-powershot-sx280-hs/4505-6501_7-35642130.html

Canon PowerShot SX280 HS and SX270 HS specifications
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/03/21/Canon-announces-SX270-HS-20x-superzoom-and-SX280-HS-with-GPS-and-Wi-Fi#specs


thanks

oh for the powershot, I thought you were talking the 'new' 18MP sensor for the DSLRs




Mar 21, 2013 at 07:09 PM
skibum5
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


EOS20 wrote:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8101/8576262367_40fce8682e.jpg



wow

(you all feel free to decide what I mean by wow )



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:11 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


skibum5 wrote:
thanks

oh for the powershot, I thought you were talking the 'new' 18MP sensor for the DSLRs



The new small DSLR body have the new APS-C hybrid-CMOS AF II sensor. The two DSLR bodies don't have the same sensor



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:14 PM
Photonic
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Having a significant investment in Canon glass and flashes, I view the SL1 as a very interesting new offering. For me it offers the possibility of saving a full pound compared to my 5DM3 body when I am trekking or climbing regardless of what lens I pair it with.

Another way to look at the SL1 is as a replacement for a 1.4x teleconvertor that offers no light loss with only a 6 ounce weight premium. Oh yeah, you also get a back up camera in the bargain.

My enthusiasm for this camera is all predicated on image quality so I have not put my pre-order in yet.



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:16 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


Photonic wrote:
Having a significant investment in Canon glass and flashes, I view the SL1 as a very interesting new offering. For me it offers the possibility of saving a full pound compared to my 5DM3 body when I am trekking or climbing regardless of what lens I pair it with.

Another way to look at the SL1 is as a replacement for a 1.4x teleconvertor that offers no light loss with only a 6 ounce weight premium. Oh yeah, you also get a back up camera in the bargain.

My enthusiasm for this camera is all predicated on image quality so I have
...Show more

+1

That's the way I see the new small body also.



Mar 21, 2013 at 07:26 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Just announced: Canon Rebel SL1, T5i & Powershot SX-280


StillFingerz wrote:
Full specs:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/945057-REG/canon_8575b001_eos_digital_rebel_sl1.html



Mar 21, 2013 at 08:03 PM
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