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Archive 2013 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses
  
 
R.Young
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Since buying a Hasselblad 500CM a few months ago, I've been toying with the idea of getting a TS system, either a Flexbody, a Canon 45 2.8 TS or maybe a Mirex adapter for the 80 2.8 Planar that I already have.

The cheapest way seems to be a Mirex TS adapter...

Would the best option be to get a Mirex Mamiya 645 TS adapter, a Hasselblad V to 645 adapter and use my 80 2.8 on my 5D2? This would then give me the option of a cheap Mamiya 45mm 2.8 in the future for roughly the same price as one Canon TS lens.

Would the Hasselblad 80 2.8 C T* and Mamiya 45 2.8 lenses be sharper than a 45 TSE and 90 TSE?

Or I would be interested in a Canon FD 35 2.8 SSC which is a focal length I like, and may be a cheaper option.



Mar 20, 2013 at 12:58 PM
SoulNibbler
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Hmm, in my experience the 645m 45mm is less than stunning in the sharpness department on a mirex. I've had good luck with the 35mm and the 80mm and the 120mm wide open adapted and would hazard to say they are competitive, maybe not the 35mm.

Though the mirex adaptors are awesome! Mine is more than a bit iffy at infinity but that's hopefully because I bought an m42 version and adapted it to my A99. The adaptors are fun and retain their value. Though as you mentioned hasselblad, fotodiox has done a mirex rip-off for blad->canon, it might be cheaper, but the service is nice with the mirex guys.



Mar 20, 2013 at 01:10 PM
Guari
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Since MF lenses were designed to cover a much larger strip of film than 135 (bigger area), MF lenses for film were not be designed for utmost resolution; it was not needed. So no, MF lenses won't be sharper than lenses designed for 135 as a rule of thumb when both are used on a 135 body.. exceptions exists, of course...

On the other hand, MF lenses tend to have better tonal reproduction, better contrast, less vignetting...

I have pondered a lot about what you want to do as I have also had the urge to mount MF lenses on my 135, but then I remember that there are other ways to get better results...



Mar 20, 2013 at 01:17 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Guari wrote:
Since MF lenses were designed to cover a much larger strip of film than 135 (bigger area), MF lenses for film were not be designed for utmost resolution; it was not needed. So no, MF lenses won't be sharper than lenses designed for 135 as a rule of thumb when both are used on a 135 body.. exceptions exists, of course...

On the other hand, MF lenses tend to have better tonal reproduction, better contrast, less vignetting...

I have pondered a lot about what you want to do as I have also had the urge to mount MF lenses on my 135,
...Show more

I agree/disagree ... it isn't that the utmost resolution isn't needed (suggesting inferior optics), it is that the spread over the greater area from a greater distance provides for more gradual dispersion of the projection. This does give us better tonal reproduction and less vignetting (virtually non-existent when used on the smaller format. This doesn't necessarily mean that MF glass is less sharp, although it may mean that images captured from MF glass can tolerate/benefit from a different sharpening technique.

If one accommodates for the variances, the resolution can be surprising beyond the expectations based on the notion that MF glass isn't as sharp. Of course, just like smaller formats not all MF glass is equal and there are some stellar lenses, some good lenses and some mediocre lenses.

TS lenses by their own design require a larger image circle projection to accommodate for the movements. MF glass shares this larger image circle projection (albeit even larger). Granted there is a difference in rendering between MF and smaller formats, but that doesn't necessarily make them less sharp, imo. It does make them have smoother transitions, which can be changed in post to suit your taste with a degree of refinement that isn't afforded in smaller formats.

If you're expecting sooc to be sharper, then nope, it won't look sharper. But if you are looking at final outcome with proper post sharpening of images projected onto larger image circles, then you can be in for a treat.



Mar 20, 2013 at 02:07 PM
Guari
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


RustyBug wrote:
I agree/disagree ... it isn't that the utmost resolution isn't needed (suggesting inferior optics), it is that the spread over the greater area from a greater distance provides for more gradual dispersion of the projection. This does give us better tonal reproduction and less vignetting (virtually non-existent when used on the smaller format. This doesn't necessarily mean that MF glass is less sharp, although it may mean that images captured from MF glass can tolerate/benefit from a different sharpening technique.

If one accommodates for the variances, the resolution can be surprising beyond the expectations based on the notion that MF
...Show more

I fully agree with you. I am sorry if my entangled english made for a different message. Though I'm still on the young side, I have had the chance to play with LF cameras and I fully agree that the gotcha is in having a larger projection making up for smoother transitions. Superb resolving power is not necessary. Totally agree with you. What I have not made is put a MF lens on a 135 camera. All I was trying to answer the OP's question, if the Mf's were going to be sharper than the TS's on a 135 camera..

With that said, I still tinker with the idea of finally snapping a MF lens on top of my dslr... will see



Mar 20, 2013 at 02:25 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


No worries ... I think we're on the same page here.

There is a bit of a learning curve @ how to best harness/utilize the pro's/cons @ gotcha/transitions. But once you do, there is a feeling that there are no cons, just optical science that is at your beckon call to use in ways that you'll never get from smaller format glass (not that a TS image circle is THAT much smaller than an M645).

I don't have a Mirex (yet) but the thing about it is that it then opens up all your MF glass to becoming a TS ... rather than needing to buy multiple TS lenses at different FL's. My only TS is the Canon 24L TS-E II, which is obviously wider than you're gonna find in MF glass. Currently, my TS needs are mostly satisfied by my 24L, but I'd like to have a Mirex (someday) to go along with my M645 80/4 Macro. I imagine it would be nice for use with the 120/4 Macro as well ... Yakim or Jim, jump in here anytime.



Mar 20, 2013 at 02:50 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Hi there.

I think a Mirex Mamiya M645 to EOS T-S adapter is a great way to go. You can get Hasselblad to M645 and Pentacon 6/Exakta 90 to M645 adapters. I use Mamiya 35/3.5N, 55/2.8N, 80/2.8N, and A 150/2.8 lenses on my Mirex, as well as 80/4N Macro, A 120/4 Macro, and A 200/2.8 APO lenses on 'straight up' Fotodiox Pro adapters. The 45/2.8N is also a very nice lens, but I didn't keep mine because the 35N and 55N provided adequate coverage. I also have the TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II which are absolutely fabulous lenses, but not better than the Mamiya lenses.

At one time, I compared Hasselblad Distagon CF T* 50/4, Pentacon 6 Flektogon MC 50/4 and Mamiya-Sekor 645 C 55mm 1:2.8 N, as well as Hasselblad Planar CF T* 80/2.8, Pentacon 6 Biometar MC 80/2.8 II, and Mamiya-Sekor 645 C 80mm 2.8 N. The Hassy and M645 lenses had very similar IQ, and the P6 lenses were a bit behind, but not much. I decided to stick with M645 lenses because they're generally smaller and less expensive, but you're ahead of the game if you already have some Hassy glass kicking around.

Here's some recent threads that might be of interest. There's some redundancy in the list (some later threads cite earlier ones), but you get what you pay for, right?

Alternative Tilt-shift lens offerings? http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1133904/0#10824923

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1113172/0#10627803 (has all following)
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/969706
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/957325
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/881094
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/878520
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/727356/0&year=2009#6586359
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/711581
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/700049/0#6362826
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/685096
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/696092/0
http://mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm

Mirex T-S and etc.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/779310
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/743122
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/741345
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/734115
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/727356
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/711581
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/700049
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/696092
Mamiya 645 "C" lenses vs. "N" lenses http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/000XKb

M645 C 150/3.5N vs. A 150/2.8 http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/870791

300 APO http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/856722
300 APO http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/771204
Drop-in filter and infinity focus http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/771204

Jafa Photography: http://www.jafaphotography.com/medium_format_lenses.html
John Lind: http://johnlind.tripod.com/mamiya/mamiyatext.html

Mamiya 50mm f4 shift with Zork PSA http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/573298/0
Why do you use alt. lenses? http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/569176/6
Anyone use Pentacon 6 lenses? http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/571360
Medium format to EF mount t/s adapter? www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/571522

Pentacon 6 P6

http://www.commiecameras.com/ddr/p6/lenses/index.htm
http://scruss.com/pentacon_six.html
http://www.kievaholic.com/lenstests2.html
http://www.rickdenney.com/mother_lens_test.htm
http://www.praktica-users.com/lens/p6lenses.html

Harold Merklinger on the Scheimpflug Principle http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/#SR
"Focusing the View Camera" http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/FVC16.pdf
"The INs and OUTs of Focus" http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/TIAOOFe.pdf
Merklinger spreadsheet http://www.largeformatphotography.info/merklinger-spreadsheet.html
Large Format (LF) Photography: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
LF movements http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-focus.html
The Graflex Speed Graphic FAQ: http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/ (movements)



Mar 20, 2013 at 03:20 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


YOWSA ... Jim, I think you oughta write a sticky.


Mar 20, 2013 at 03:45 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


I believe the Mamiya 645 55/2.8 is quite a bit better than the 45/2.8. The 35/3.5 is supposed to be a very nice lens too, and so is the 80/2.8.


Mar 20, 2013 at 03:58 PM
R.Young
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Wow, thanks for the great replies!

Jcolwell, I already read through a few of your posts regarding TS using the search function, and was almost ready to pull the trigger on a Mirex last night because of it. But am going to spend a few extra days reading up on it first. I'm busy at work at the moment so will get back to this thread later. But I'm now thinking the Mirex is my first choice, in Mamiya format so I can in future buy a 35mm f3.5 or which ever Mamiya medium wide angle is considered the best.

From reading this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/881094/7 it seems that the Mamiya and Hasselblad lenses are in fact better than their Canon TSE equivalents (45 + 90 lenses). I may have miss-read though so will look into it later.

Thanks again for the responses.



Mar 20, 2013 at 05:00 PM
 

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SoulNibbler
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


I just got my 45mm yesterday and through the viewfinder (evf magnified) it doesn't scream sharp like the 80mm macro and the 120mm macro or even the 35mm. Some of this may be due to the fact that I'm comparing at f2.8 vs f4. However once in capture one, it seems to respond nicely to the clarity adjustments, so I guess that it does sharpen up nicely.




Mar 20, 2013 at 05:03 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


R.Young wrote:
... it seems that the Mamiya and Hasselblad lenses are in fact better than their Canon TSE equivalents (45 + 90 lenses). ...


I was referring specifically to the TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II. I have no experience with the TS-E 45/2.8 and 90/2.8. It might be worth noting that the TS-E 17mm and 24mm lernses are L-series and the 45mm and 90mm are not. FWIW.



Mar 20, 2013 at 06:37 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


AhamB wrote:
I believe the Mamiya 645 55/2.8 is quite a bit better than the 45/2.8. The 35/3.5 is supposed to be a very nice lens too, and so is the 80/2.8.


In my personal experience, the IQ of the 35/3.5N, 45/2.8N, and 55/2.8N are all about he same.

At common apertures, the 80/2.8N is every bit as good as the Canon EF 85/1.2L II, Contax Carl Zeiss Planar 85/1.4, and Leica Summicron-R 90/2, and better than the Rokinon 85/1.4.



Mar 20, 2013 at 06:40 PM
R.Young
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


So just to clarify, you feel the Mamiya lenses are sharper than the 17+24 TSE or the other way round?


Mar 20, 2013 at 06:40 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


R.Young wrote:
So just to clarify, you feel the Mamiya lenses are sharper than the 17+24 TSE or the other way round?


I said, "the TS-E 17/4L and 24/3.5L II which are absolutely fabulous lenses, but not better than the Mamiya lenses."

I could have added "nor are they worse".

IMO, and in my personal experience, the Canon TS-E 17/4L, 24/3.5L II, and Mamiya M645 C 35/3.5N, 55/2.8N, 80/2.8N, 80/4N Macro, A 120/2.8 Macro, A 150/2.8, A 200/2.8, and A 300/2.8 APO all have excellent IQ, as good as or better than any of their highly regarded peers, old and new.

The TS-E 17/4L has some compromises in performance at large movements, but the fact that it actually exists at all is almost a miracle. At small movements, nothing else at 17mm or so comes close to it . The Nikkor 14-24/2.8 G ED AF-S might be a very worthy competitor, but I have no experience with it... yet.

The TS-E 24/3.5L II is incredible. It's one of the top three lenses listed above (TS-E 24/3.5L II, A 200/2.8 APO, and A 300/2.8 APO). OTOH, it's difficult to compare lenses of different focal lengths. In my books, they're either amongst the best, or they're not. All of the lenses mentioned above are amongst the best.

P.S. IMO, the Mamiya 150/3.5 N, 210/4 N, and 500/5.6 aren't so great.



Mar 20, 2013 at 06:52 PM
R.Young
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Ok, thanks for the clarification. I think I might go ahead with the Mirex then. But before I do...

Can anyone confirm that I can mount my Hasselblad C T* 80mm 2.8 Planar to a Hasselblad-Mamiya 645 adapter, then mount that onto the Mirex 645-EF adapter?

And thanks again everyone for the quick and informative replies!



Mar 20, 2013 at 07:19 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


I've successfully used a generic Hasselblad to M645 adapter on a generic M645 to EOS tilt adapter with Hasselblad Distagon CF T* 50/4 and Planar CF T* 80/2.8 lenses. OTOH, all adapters aren't created equal. If you're hesitant to fork out for the Mirex without personal proof that you can mount your Hassy on a M645 device, then you could buy a pair of generic adapters (HC > M645, M645 > EOS) from eBay and try them out, but I think that would be a waste of money, to get adapters of questionable quality.

I recommend you get a Fotodiox Pro HC to M645 adapter to use on your Mirex. I haven't used this particular adapter, but I have used about a dozen other flavours of Fotodiox Pro adapters, and they're certainly all up to their intended tasks.

Fotodiox Pro HC to M645 adapter http://fotodioxpro.com/index.php/hasselblad-to-mamiya-645-camera-fotodiox-pro-lens-mount-adapter.html



Mar 20, 2013 at 07:51 PM
R.Young
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


Oh dear, I'm starting to get myself into a mess of decision making. This started out as cheap way of getting into TS. I'm especially interested in creative tilt photography at the moment. I really like this shot and think it sums up the expectations I have from the kit I want: A shot by H.Lux from my previously linked thread,



I've just spotted the 80 1.9 Mamiya which looks like a nice step up from my Planar 80 2.8... it doesn't seem to expensive either... But I'm supposed to be using the lens I already own.

Anyway, thanks again jcolwell for the info, I assume the doubled up adapters don't cause limitations to the amount of tilt or shift that can be applied?



Mar 20, 2013 at 08:19 PM
JohnJ
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


When people crit the 45/2.8 it's worth remembering that there are 2 versions of this lens, completely different designs. The later one is in the same ball park as the 35/3.5 and 55/2.8.


Mar 20, 2013 at 08:25 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Mirex TS Adapter for Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 lenses


JohnJ wrote:
When people crit the 45/2.8 it's worth remembering that there are 2 versions of this lens, completely different designs. The later one is in the same ball park as the 35/3.5 and 55/2.8.


That's the one I'm talking about - the latter one (N). I didn't know there were different designs for the 45mm. Thanks for the info JJ.



Mar 20, 2013 at 08:42 PM
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