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Archive 2013 · Frustrated post processing noob
  
 
Jason_Brook
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Frustrated post processing noob


Hello everyone!

Plain and simple; what I see through my viewfinder, color-wise, is no where close to what I get when post processing, even when using a grey card to nail WB. I use ACR and notice the camera profiles give dramatic shifts in color, generally strong magenta, strong green, or the contrast goes to hell. Skin tones are almost always magenta or green, it drives me nuts! I shoot raw + jpeg, my D700 is set to neutral. The jpegs vs what comes out of ACR is just so dramatically different...The problem is most evident when it comes to skin tones, but also on a lot of landscapes they just seem to lack range/depth of color. Generally the jpeg colors look infinitely "cleaner".

My questions;
Would setting up my own profiles possibly fix this issue? Would getting an x-rite passport be worth it for this? I've read NX2 generally gets you close to the jpeg a lot faster, is this true?

I hate to be one to point blame at the gear, but I have a strong feeling my problems lay 100% in the camera profiles of ACR.



Mar 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM
sbeme
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Frustrated post processing noob


not sure what the problem is, but its hard to imagine its the camera.
is there a mismatch between color space from the camera/processed image and monitor gamut/space?



Mar 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM
Jason_Brook
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Frustrated post processing noob


I'm not accusing the camera at all, I'm accusing the camera color profiles in ACR and/or my lack of knowledge of them.

All of my color spaces are setup correctly.



Mar 13, 2013 at 12:35 PM
Guari
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Frustrated post processing noob


Depending upon the picture control setting you choose, may times the jpg's will not look like raw's at all, since raws are meant to come out bland, superbly neutral... jpg = (raws + proprietary sauce)... But then, you are shooting neutral jpg's, so they should be quite similar..

If you are bothered then a custom profile might be in working order for you..



Mar 13, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Jason_Brook
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Frustrated post processing noob


Guari wrote:
Depending upon the picture control setting you choose, may times the jpg's will not look like raw's at all, since raws are meant to come out bland, superbly neutral... jpg = (raws + proprietary sauce)... But then, you are shooting neutral jpg's, so they should be quite similar..

If you are bothered then a custom profile might be in working order for you..


Some of them will get me close to the jpeg, but no cigar. Like I said, even when I know I have an accurate white balance, I still get strong hues and muted tones. Picture control (what I've been calling camera profile) will give me wild swings that put me in the same league where I want to be, but there's always consistent hues associated with them.

I completely understand that raws are going to be very bland and muted, but that's not my issue.



Mar 13, 2013 at 12:51 PM
Bernie
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Frustrated post processing noob


If you like the look of jpegs, then shoot that or jpeg + raw.

Do not expect ACR to reproduce the jpeg look at all. You do ALL the work...

As mentioned, you can check color space, profile your camera and display, or find the presets that work for you. And then keep tweaking from that point. If you still have color cast issues, learn to use the tools ACR has to deal with that.

Think of working with raw like working in the darkroom. Some of us have been developing our skills now for over a decade.

Ansel Adams didn't get it SOOC....



Mar 13, 2013 at 02:32 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Frustrated post processing noob


Have you tried using Nikon's own "secret sauce" software instead of ACR. I know that using Canon's DPP or Kodak's prorietary software they both render images (for respective camera's) that ACR comes up short on. I've since learned to use ACR to my taste, but I recall struggling with that "mental mismatch" for a while as well.

If you like the OEM's profile, then I'd suggest using the OEM's software first for converting. Then, if you need to take it into something else for further editing you can.



Mar 13, 2013 at 02:38 PM
Jason_Brook
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Frustrated post processing noob


RustyBug wrote:
Have you tried using Nikon's own "secret sauce" software instead of ACR. I know that using Canon's DPP or Kodak's prorietary software they both render images (for respective camera's) that ACR comes up short on. I've since learned to use ACR to my taste, but I recall struggling with that "mental mismatch" for a while as well.

If you like the OEM's profile, then I'd suggest using the OEM's software first for converting. Then, if you need to take it into something else for further editing you can.


No, but that's why I asked about Capture NX. When digging around the forums, I found a lot of feedback about my issue in regards to profiles on ACR vs reality vs Capture NX getting you there a lot faster. Some said they use Capture NX for that exact reason, others created their own profiles on ACR with a colorchecker.

I think I'm going to buy the colorchecker and create my own profile/DNG with it in ACR. I've only been at this for two years now, so my editing skills are weak.



Mar 13, 2013 at 02:49 PM
 

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Jason_Brook
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Frustrated post processing noob


Maybe it would help if I updated my camera profiles on ACR as well.... oops


Mar 13, 2013 at 03:12 PM
Alan321
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Frustrated post processing noob


Jason, just to be clear, have you properly calibrated and profiled your display ? Without that the other software and ACR profiles have no more than a random chance of giving you what you want.

Your ACR profiles should be up to date already. A few years ago they had collections of profiles that needed to be downloaded and updated but nowadays there is a single set for each camera and it is installed automatically when you update ACR.

Before buying Capture NX 2 you might try the free ViewNX first.


Here's a reality check: Most scenes have two or more different lighting lighting conditions at once and so no single camera profile is correct for the whole image. Then you have to play with different areas differently or apply a compromise. Either way, it makes the need for any one perfect colour profile somewhat moot. Once you get used to that idea you are free to create whatever looks good and perhaps also plausible with each of your photos.

- Alan



Mar 15, 2013 at 12:00 PM
howardm4
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Frustrated post processing noob


As noted, ViewNX2 is *free* and it will give you a match to the in-camera jpg.

if you use ACR, the 'v4' camera profiles will yield *very* good matching.



Mar 15, 2013 at 12:26 PM
pr4photos
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Frustrated post processing noob


With my D700 I find getting the correct white balance is quite tricky - even shooting RAW and and having a grey card or color passport in the photo - when it comes to importing into Lightroom and picking on the grey it often comes out looking wrong, leaving me to adjust the white balance manually. Not what I expected to do having used a grey card/passport.


Mar 15, 2013 at 06:32 PM
Jason_Brook
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Frustrated post processing noob


Alan321 wrote:
Jason, just to be clear, have you properly calibrated and profiled your display ? Without that the other software and ACR profiles have no more than a random chance of giving you what you want.

Your ACR profiles should be up to date already. A few years ago they had collections of profiles that needed to be downloaded and updated but nowadays there is a single set for each camera and it is installed automatically when you update ACR.

Before buying Capture NX 2 you might try the free ViewNX first.

Here's a reality check: Most scenes have two or more different
...Show more


Yes, I'm on a calibrated display. I did all my updates in ACR and I'm now getting much better results with the profiles. Standard v4 is getting me almost spot on to my JPEG. I'm not sure what happened, but I guess updating was key.



Mar 15, 2013 at 07:12 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Frustrated post processing noob


Try Capture One (trial is free for 60 days).

Or harder solution, using RawTherapee with ICC profiles from Capture One. Its not easy, neither its 100% stable. But tuned right, results are pretty impressive..

Im not sure if I missed that, but why you didnt try to make your own profiles? Simple color checker and create your own?

Edit: Just checked and RawTherapee has own special profiles for D700, which if they work as good as D3s are really good. Only downside of RT is de-noise (probably fixed in new 4.1 version, but no Windows build yet).



Mar 15, 2013 at 07:17 PM
Paul Gardner
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Frustrated post processing noob


If you are on a calibrated display, have you run the display calibrator lately, and are you sure you selected the proper measurement standard if using X-rites I1pro with the latest 1.4.2 update. With the kind of problems you are describing it sure sounds to me as if the display is the problem.
For example after calibrating my dual displays with I1display pro, PS, C1, and DXO all the default profiles come out practically identical.



Mar 16, 2013 at 04:21 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Frustrated post processing noob


I suggest you shoot raw + jpeg. If you like the jpeg and only some minor post processing is required, then you will not need the raw. If you need to make major adjustments, including WB, then you want to start with the raw.

I would throw the gray card away. Also give up the idea that there is some sort of real or true white balance. If you photograph a white building illuminated with sunset lighting it will appear reddish or magenta. Do you really want to adjust color back to the "true" white color or do you want to enjoy the reddish cast of the sunset? I adjust WB to taste and that is usually quick and easy if you start with raw.



Mar 17, 2013 at 03:45 PM





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