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Archive 2013 · Broncolor Para 88
  
 
aztwang1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Broncolor Para 88


Anyone have experience with this light shaper. It has my interest but hard to find real life opinions and comparisons. I shoot with Profoto but Bron actually makes an adapter for Profoto heads for this .
Thx



Mar 12, 2013 at 07:10 AM
rico
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Broncolor Para 88


Looks like a cheap Swiss knock-off of Briese.




Mar 12, 2013 at 07:49 AM
400d
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Broncolor Para 88


Don't have one, no plan for getting one. From the samples on Bron USA blog and users' youtube video, I don't see a huge difference vs. the 39" DO, it's easier to setup plus the unique "focus" ability, but the price is prohibitive. I would get a Para some day though, either a 170 or 220-now that's a significant difference vs a large Octa.


Mar 12, 2013 at 03:46 PM
mikejl29
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Broncolor Para 88


A few brief closeup samples from Dan Lim in this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Itzk0RNAd6E#t=185s

An interesting use of it from Urs Recher at Broncolor here - http://www.redbullillume.com/stories/news/article/on-the-move-with-broncolor.html

Definitely a cool light, very quick to setup. Focus and defocus is awesome to have, as well as a straight reflector from the back. The fall off is awesome when using the focus rod, and that wraparound light is really nice. Definitely worth renting at the very least to see if it works for you. It's pretty big to travel with... similar in size to the 170 when folded up, as the arms don't fold back on themselves like the larger Paras.



Mar 12, 2013 at 04:01 PM
aztwang1
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Broncolor Para 88


rico wrote:
Looks like a cheap Swiss knock-off of Briese.


Rico unless you live in Breise'ie land there is nothing cheap about this 4K + modifier



Mar 13, 2013 at 02:40 AM
photosymbol
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Broncolor Para 88


It's a really nice modifier, i've used the 88 and the larger one. Size is escaping me right now.

Works well, all the parts are a+, the material is sort of rubbery, not what i was expecting. If you didn't take care of it, you could easily punch a hole through it.

I personally feel its a bit overpriced. But then again, i feel that way about the entire Bron line. If you are shooting F64 or multishot type things or need critical color consistency, then Bron is your manufacturer.

But otherwise, i feel it's a bit overkill. This is my opinion....

Elinchrom and Profoto make extremely good gear and have modifiers that even Bron users adapt. The EL Octa or the Large Magnums come to mind. I think you'd be a bit underwhelmed going from Profoto to Bron on just the 88 modifier alone.

.02



Mar 14, 2013 at 05:01 PM
aztwang1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Broncolor Para 88


photosymbol wrote:
It's a really nice modifier, i've used the 88 and the larger one. Size is escaping me right now.

Works well, all the parts are a+, the material is sort of rubbery, not what i was expecting. If you didn't take care of it, you could easily punch a hole through it.

I personally feel its a bit overpriced. But then again, i feel that way about the entire Bron line. If you are shooting F64 or multishot type things or need critical color consistency, then Bron is your manufacturer.

But otherwise, i feel it's a bit overkill. This is my opinion....

Elinchrom
...Show more

I am very satisfied with Profoto and do not anticipate jumping ship ever. Profoto's modifiers are vast and rock! I inquired about the Para 88 first because it seems to be an incredible modifier and secondly works with Profoto heads. Some good info but not sure if I can justify the expense....however this has got my wheels turning on making a indirect mount for Profoto deep octa.



Mar 15, 2013 at 09:05 AM
 

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PM01
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Broncolor Para 88


I use the Para 88 with a modified Briese light setup. The focus tube is Briese, same with the flash tube and flash head adaptation. This feeds into a Broncolor Scoro S 1600 pack.

In the stock form, the Para 88 is in a class by itself. Very nice character of light and ideal for small studios. The para 88, imo, stands head and shoulders for ease of setup against it's larger brothers, the para 170 / 177 and the para 220 / 222. Very light weight, very fast setup and no crank needed. There are videos showing the larger paras needing spline and cable replacements that have had lots of usage. I do believe it's a 4 hour repair job - not my kind of thing. I have yet to see a para 88 mechanism break, but then again, it's a fairly new piece. With the Briese, if anything breaks, it's very easily fixed. Carbon fiber rods for the support rods and if one snaps, it's a 5 minute repair job max.

For my larger para setup, I use the Briese Focus 180. Exceptional. Much lighter in weight than the Para 170 / 177 and much faster to setup than the bron. Also, the Briese only requires a lighter duty stand due to the weight savings. Remember that the Briese only has the focus tube and the flash tube being suspended - you're probably talking a max of 2 to 3 pounds. With the broncolor, you might be dangling the 6 to 8 pound flash heads at the end of their focus rails, plus the rails weight substantially more than the Briese focus tube. Definitely an uneasy front heavy feeling. The broncolor para 170/177 is offset from center for the units purchased in the United States to prevent Briese from suing them for patent infringement, that of the centered light source, or so broncolor claims.

The profoto large umbrellas are completely different in function, number of segments and rail design. The "adjustable" rail is actually fixed segments - you can't vary the length smoothly as you can only add a fixed amount of length when you want to adjust the spacing of the light source from the center of the umbrella. Also, much less number of segments than the 24 that Bron and Briese have.

Para 88 full kit with profoto adapter is around $4400 to $4500. Briese Focus 85 umbrella, umbrella alone is about $4500. You still have to buy the flash tube, focus tube, stand mount holder, flash head and the flash pack. Flash tube is around $1000 to $2000 depending on which one you get. Focus tube is also around $1000. Stand mount is a couple of grand if I remember correctly. Flash head and flash pack - very expensive. You're looking at $10,000 to $15,000 easily for a full rig. I personally don't like the Briese flash heads or their flash packs. They can design a excellent parabolic umbrella, but their electronics need quite a bit of work. That's why I use the modded version with the Broncolor Scoro S. Simply the fastest pack with regards to t.1 times at the higher power levels. Yes, much faster than the Einstein packs, but that's a huge price differential.

PLB Einstein does 1/580th of a sec, t.1 at 640 ws. The Broncolor Scoro S, at 600 ws speed mode, does this in 1/6000th of a sec as measured with a t.1 Broncolor FCM meter. You can also use a photodiode hooked up to a oscilloscope that has store and capture ability. Just read out the times from the 10 percent mark leading and trailing edges of the waveform.

But yes, para 88 can be overpriced but it depends on the clients that you photograph. If you're doing high end work with the prices to match, it is worth looking into.

Probably the ultimate combo for outdoor fashion shoots would be the para 88 and the new Broncolor MOVE L 1200 pack. Just outstanding.

Hope this info helps.



May 11, 2013 at 07:01 AM
PM01
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Broncolor Para 88


Correction on the new 177 and 222 models. They now use a stem similar to that found in the para 88 so the lighting is centered.

Cons - the Para 177 with a Pulso G or a Unilite weighs about 10 pounds more than the Briese Focus 180, fully rigged. Briese was meant to be very lightweight and strong. Broncolor still has the heavy light heads and the solid stem support mechanism.

Briese flash support stem is hollow but very strong. Reason for the hollow stem is so that air can flow through and cool the bulb. With the Broncolor, the cooling fan is on the light head itself.

Although 10 pounds doesn't sound like much, try taking one on location at a beach or other outdoor shoot. The Briese is much more maneuverable and has far less moment of inertia. Is the weight savings and potential safety worth the additional money? That's your call.

The Briese can get away with a lighter weight stand. With the Broncolor para, you need a heavy duty stand and possibly a crank handle. Keep in mind that the heavier duty stand will also weigh more than a sturdy medium stand.

BTW - the smaller Broncolor Para 88, when equipped with the Unilite or Pulso G head, weighs a couple of pounds MORE than the Briese Focus 180!

I had a chance to purchase the older Bron para 170 and potentially the Bron para 177, but the Briese, to me, was worth the extra money. Your mileage may vary.




Jul 21, 2013 at 12:46 AM
rico
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Broncolor Para 88


Thanks for the report, PM01. Not many users of Focus reflectors in these parts. The new Profoto giant reflectors are claimed to be parabolic and have more rods (20) than their usual count, but they don't inspire me. To my thinking, the magic of Briese is the enlongated flash tube that nicely fills the parabola - I just don't want to use their packs! A flash service like Silvino's should be able to recable the Briese lamp head to operate with my Profoto D4 (which will have all suitable outputs and voltages for the purpose). I could live with the Focus 115.

http://www.brieselichttechnik.de/en/flashlight/products-overview/focus/focus-115.html



Jul 21, 2013 at 06:41 AM
PM01
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Broncolor Para 88


Rico -

I've priced out a Briese 115 and the entire kit without the head and power pack is around 11 grand. You do see a few used Briese pieces come up on the auction sites, but they too demand high prices.

And yes, you are correct. The real magic is within the elongated flash tube. It's light emitting area is around 250 percent greater than that of the Broncolor MobiLED and still larger than the Pulso G or the Unilite heads with regards to flash / light emission area. The larger the area, the more angles of the light rays (ray tracing) that you can achieve. I use the Briese flash tube in a modified Broncolor Para 88. The 88 has a fairly deep parabola and the construction is quite good. And much cheaper than the Briese 85 or equivalent.

There are a couple of huge factors resulting from the elongated flash tube. For one thing, you're gaining very large amounts of efficiency. H.W. Briese accounted for all of this when designing the entire package. I'm averaging about 1.5 to 2 stops in efficiency OVER the Broncolor. So, if I'm shooting 25 watt seconds with a Briese tube, I'll need about 75 to 100 watt seconds with the Broncolor due to the fact that the Bron has a smaller photon emission area.

Another is the light falloff and contrast from the Briese vs the Bron head. Since there are more rays due to the area and using more of the parabolic surface, the Briese has much more "flow" in it's transitions from dark to light. The Bron, much higher contrast since there is less light area hitting the parabolic. But the tradeoff for the higher contrast is that you have a much less efficient flash tube with regards to light area.

Bron results are always less "flowing" than the Briese, once again due to the amount of angles and rays that are being used. Lots of hard shadows created, even with the larger Para 177. I can get soft shadows and wonderful transitions with the Briese tube, even in the modified Para88. Just amazing. In fact, even with a small Para 88, I can get zero shadow from an object placed about 1 foot away from the wall, and the light source being 7 feet away. With the Bron, I get shadows at any setting.

Briese can also emulate the Broncolor heads. Simple trick - take some aluminum foil and cover up most of the flash tube. This cuts down the area of light rays being emitting and uses a smaller portion of the parabola. Bingo - high contrast, but at the loss of overall efficiency which results in higher power needing to be used. Broncolor can NOT emulate Briese "flowing" effect as you can't modify the area behind the flash tube. That and a whole host of other factors.

The old "internet wisdom" of "light is light" is actually quite unwise. It may start off as a light photon but how much it's manipulated and the overall source will make quite a difference in the final result. Kinda like an engine that brags about 600 horsepower, but how much power is really left after the automatic transmission, the heavyweight wheels and mechanical losses from chassis weight, etc. Have to account for the whole package.

Given the choice between a Briese 85 and the Para 88, cost no object, I'd go for the B85. Materials used for the B85 are much more durable and lighter. Plus you can plug in a 1,200 watt HMI with no problem. It looks like from the Briese site that the Briese 85 can take up to 2,500 watts of HMI. Broncolor Para 88 is limited to 650, about 4x less.

From some research, the Broncolor Para 88 is using a shiny nylon material. The Briese uses a true foil material, thus the better heat dissipation.

Interesting story - the Profoto parabolic originally copied off the Briese design. Briese had it's first prototype displayed in 1995, with the first production model being delivered in April of 1996, that of a Briese Focus 180 if I remember correctly. Profoto tried to copy the design and was sued by Briese, thus the no so great redesign of the Profoto. Broncolor came out with their 220 and 330 in 2003 and is still currently in lawsuit with Briese. Originally Broncolor started off with an offset system and a crank system for setting up the parabolic umbrella. Very bulky and clunky compared to the Briese. Bron now has the Para 177 / 222 with a centered light source but the effects are definitely not the same.

Funny thing - Digital Photo Pro article mentions that the Broncolor para was "first". It wasn't. The Briese was made 7 to 8 years before it was a twinkle in Broncolor eye.

And yes, the Briese flash packs aren't intuitive. That's why my pack of choice is the Broncolor Scoro S. Much more intuitive and far better t.1 times than the Briese flash pack.

Hope you can get your hands on the B115. I'm looking at that one due to the deep parabola. Good stuff!



Aug 19, 2013 at 05:12 AM
PM01
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Broncolor Para 88


According to the post below, Briese patent has expired, which explains why Broncolor did the Para 88, 177 and new 222 redesign.

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs169/1102343557525/archive/1114163885770.html

Also, Briese website indicates that they won the lawsuit over B2Pro. B2Pro had almost identical umbrellas to the Briese units, minus the silk screening that said "BRIESE".

http://www.rkmc.com/~/media/SDNY/13-12/31-Pacer-20131218-09-cv-09790-477.pdf

Briese was awarded $300,000 initially. Also, B2Pro was ordered to pay additional amounts for damages according to the final judgment papers. Briese is NOT selling the umbrellas only, from what I've been told, "to protect their patent". Later that statement was changed to "Briese policy". The U.S. rep would rather sell the entire kit at $11,000 versus umbrella only for much cheaper.





Edited on Mar 10, 2014 at 02:15 PM · View previous versions



Mar 08, 2014 at 12:58 AM
PM01
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Broncolor Para 88


A post from another photo forum. QUITE interesting.

Sergio Ortiz , Feb 20, 2014; 08:18 p.m.


Dear Customers,

Briese Lichttechnik Germany has been misinforming customers about the outcome of the recent lawsuit, Briese Lichttechnik Vs. B2PRO. The truth of the matter is that three issues were on trial.

Count 1** Trade Dress Infringement; Briese Lichttechnik LOST. A New York Federal Court Jury unanimously found Briese Lichttechnik Germany had no valid claim of trade dress infringement against B2PRO. B2PRO was found completely innocent of any trade dress infringement and absolved 100%.

Count 2** Trade Libel. Briese Lichttechnik Germany was found GUILTY of trade libel, writing defamatory letters, sending emails, phone calls, and posting to the web, in a continued attempt to damage the reputation of B2PRO. Their AIM, to confuse you into using their equipment. The unanimous Jury verdict confirmed B2PRO’s allegations that the business practices of Briese Lichttechnik Germany were Defamatory and Illegal.

Count 3** The 146 Patent. Briese Lichttechnik Germany won on a TEMPORARY shallow victory that is now under appeal. In addition to the appeal the United States Patent Office has accepted a filing request to contest the validity of the Briese Patent. We at B2PRO are confident that the 146 Patent will be overturned by the U.S.P.T.O.. The Unites States Patent Office is in receipt of an extensive file outlining the reasons for the reexamination request.

***Recent Developments From U.S.P.T.O. - On 1/31/14 after careful review of the filing request to contest the validity of the Briese 146 Patent the opinion of the examiner for The Unites States Patent &Trademark Office found sufficient evidence of patent invalidity. The Office issued a action rejecting claims 1, 4-6, 8, 11-13. The submitted prior art to the U.S.P.T.O. raised substantial new questions of patentability and the one patent claim asserted at trial stands rejected as un-patentable by the U.S. Patent Office. We at B2PRO are prevented to disclose any further details, but we strongly believe that the opinion of United States Patent And Trademark Office will stand, and the 146 Patent will be overturned.

B2PRO is in compliance with a with a Federal Court Order which required a redesign of the frontal hub locking system, of which the addition and implementation of has drastically improved the design. The new design of the patent pending Auto-Collapsing B2PRO umbrella is remarkably the most forward and progressive design to date, and exponentially improves the deployment and collapsing of the B2PRO umbrella system. The New Auto-Collapsing system makes setting up and breaking down easier, and safer than ever before. We at B2PRO are committed to providing you, the professional working customer with the highest level of service available in the Industry.

Yours Truly,
S E R G I O O R T I Z G A V I N
B2PRO



Mar 08, 2014 at 03:48 AM
sqdstf
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Broncolor Para 88


Greatest video ever

http://youtu.be/8NrNpQlabnE



Mar 09, 2014 at 10:42 PM





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