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Archive 2013 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark
  
 
mawz
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p.11 #1 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Note that DXOMark score tells us a lot about the M240. And mostly it's good stuff. That's a very solid rating, superior to the 5DmIII in overall score.

Yeah, the RX1 sensor beats it. But that's currently the best 135 format sensor on the market. That the M 240 is in shouting distance despite having an obsolete processing chain and most likely being tuned for maximal low-ISO performance says very good things about this sensor.



Mar 15, 2013 at 12:41 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #2 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


I'm actually curious to look at the individual performance metrics of the M240 but it looks like they have not posted this yet, unless I'm just missing it somehow.


Mar 15, 2013 at 01:07 AM
dswiger
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p.11 #3 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Me thinks the Leica is camera bling.
I'm sure it nice, but the king of image making it's not



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:17 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #4 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


If one is talking image making (and ignoring the idiot behind the camera ), then one must consider the lens+sensor combo and not just the body. Given that there are arguably superior optics available for the M as compared to pretty much anything else, I don't think one can dismiss the Leica out of hand when it's as close as it is to everything else with regard to the just the sensor.


Mar 15, 2013 at 01:30 AM
Mescalamba
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p.11 #5 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Major points in M-240 compared to RX1 are..

1) can change lens
2) only RF OVF is needed for focusing, no need to buy EVF if you dont need it (or want)

Well and it takes Leica M lens, which is sorta important. And Zeiss ones too..

Considering this sensor isnt Sony, I think its really impressive result.



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:49 AM
curious80
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p.11 #6 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


mawz wrote:
Note that DXOMark score tells us a lot about the M240. And mostly it's good stuff. That's a very solid rating, superior to the 5DmIII in overall score.

Yeah, the RX1 sensor beats it. But that's currently the best 135 format sensor on the market. That the M 240 is in shouting distance despite having an obsolete processing chain and most likely being tuned for maximal low-ISO performance says very good things about this sensor.


The sensor looks very good. But one still wonders that if every company including pentax can get more out of Sony sensors then Sony themselves does, how is it that Leica has managed to make this excellent sensor underachieve its potential



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:50 AM
curious80
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p.11 #7 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Mescalamba wrote:
...
Considering this sensor isnt Sony, I think its really impressive result.


Ohh its not sony? For some reason I thought it has the same 24MP sony sensor as used by the rest of the world.



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:52 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.11 #8 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


No, it's a CMOSIS. Their first real try at a sensor for a high-quality camera, I believe. These results are much better than I expected (when I heard the nonsense about live view zoom, I assumed they'd totally blown it), and pretty incredible for a new player.


Mar 15, 2013 at 03:36 AM
Mescalamba
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p.11 #9 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Lee Saxon wrote:
No, it's a CMOSIS. Their first real try at a sensor for a high-quality camera, I believe. These results are much better than I expected (when I heard the nonsense about live view zoom, I assumed they'd totally blown it), and pretty incredible for a new player.


If they were newbies, then it would be incredible, but they are not. CMOSIS are guys from Kodak sensor department. Thats source of new M-220 CCD sensors too. And Kodak designed CMOS sensors 8 years ago (at least). New M-240 has some resamblance of SLR/n sensor.. including banding. And maybe even bit colors, which is actually nice.



Mar 15, 2013 at 05:11 AM
thrice
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p.11 #10 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Mescalamba wrote:
If they were newbies, then it would be incredible, but they are not. CMOSIS are guys from Kodak sensor department. Thats source of new M-220 CCD sensors too. And Kodak designed CMOS sensors 8 years ago (at least). New M-240 has some resamblance of SLR/n sensor.. including banding. And maybe even bit colors, which is actually nice.


Ugh, this hurts my brain.

CMOSIS have NOTHING to do with Kodak. Kodak sensor division is now Truesense.
CMOSIS are not newbies to sensors though, but they have not produced a consumer product, they supply industrial, medical, military etc.
With production firmware the M240 does not suffer from the banding seen in pre-production hardware/firmware.



Mar 15, 2013 at 05:35 AM
 

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rscheffler
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p.11 #11 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


I think you're confusing CMOSIS with Truesense Imaging: http://www.truesenseimaging.com/about-us/history who are the ones supplying the M-E's sensor (the same as in the M9 and a version of which is used in the Monochrom).

Edit: Dan beat me to it.

P.S. I thought you were taking a break from us for a while....? Welcome back!

Mescalamba wrote:
Major points in M-240 compared to RX1 are..

1) can change lens
2) only RF OVF is needed for focusing, no need to buy EVF if you dont need it (or want)

Well and it takes Leica M lens, which is sorta important. And Zeiss ones too..

Considering this sensor isnt Sony, I think its really impressive result.


It also takes pretty much any lens you would care to use from legacy 35mm systems and larger...

Tariq, one thing about the 1DX though, is it doesn't show indications of banding. I'm still waiting for actual user tests of the M240 to see if the banding visible in some of the preproduction sample images has been fixed.



Mar 15, 2013 at 05:36 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.11 #12 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Someone should change the name of this thread to "Looks pretty good ..." as this DXO rating/measurements are excellent for a first time FF sensor design. Canon needs to wake up and improve DR and MP's on their sensors.
Guess this only leaves Foveon sensor as only one with poor high iso performance. The M should sell well especially if banding is solved by new firmware as Dan says.



Mar 15, 2013 at 07:58 AM
philip_pj
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p.11 #13 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


There is nothing poor about the M240 metrics as reported in DxO; they are top drawer, minimal differences are meaningless, and that is the degree of separation between the top FF sensors/cameras. It looks like catch-up after the M9 because it is.

That is great news for those who can afford the new M, as they have access to an unparalleled range of high quality optics, generally characterisable as low distortion, sharp, low complexity and exquisitely made.

For highest level image quality I would say they are in the top position - at present. That is a wonderful achievement for them, given their corporate size, the difficulty of the transition they faced, and the highly competitive enironment.

The RX1 is a special camera, equal best sensor with D800 and very high performance lens. It would be remarkable in terms of results even if it weighed as much, was as big and as costly as the new M body. It is the bargain camera in the high end 35mm market, for those for whom the 35mm FL suits their subject matter.

IF Sony make an ILC version with integrated updated EVF and 3-4 CZ lenses as good as the Sonnar 35/2, who with the money would resist?



Mar 15, 2013 at 09:18 AM
philip_pj
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p.11 #14 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


They (Leica) will have to do something about banding, one of the things going for the well-behaved Sony sensor is resistance to this problem, as well as facile post processing.

Canon's (5DIII) big problem is their DR and it also points out how much emphasis they place on high ISO - as the 2+ stops they lag behind by at base ISO is overcome higher in the ISO range, as the sensor has higher DR than the a99 by ISO 600 and goes past the RX1 by ISO 2000.

Another interesting 'DxO fact' is that the a99 is about as good as the RX1 on most measures at ISO 50, good news for tripod work and former a900 users shooting landscapes.



Mar 15, 2013 at 09:36 AM
carstenw
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p.11 #15 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


philip_pj wrote:
IF Sony make an ILC version with integrated updated EVF and 3-4 CZ lenses as good as the Sonnar 35/2, who with the money would resist?


That would be the holy grail, and I am watching to see what the NEX-9 will be, if it comes. I am highly skeptical and doubtful that Sony will release the right lenses (copying the focal lengths Fuji released with its X-Pro 1 would be a great idea), but in the end, if they do the right thing, I might well buy into such a system, as long as I could adapt my ZF.2 and other Nikon-mount lenses.



Mar 15, 2013 at 10:15 AM
Bijltje
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p.11 #16 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


dswiger wrote:
Me thinks the Leica is camera bling.
I'm sure it nice, but the king of image making it's not


Nothing is the king of image making. The perfect camera doesn't exist.

Every camera type has it pro's and flaws. Digital backs shine in studio or landscape work, rangefinder shine in streetwork, DSLR's shine in sports and mirrorless camera's try to be a bit of everything and shine in amateurs hands (sorry... ).

Its about the total package and the way of working, not just about the sensor.

and in their area (rangefinder, streets) leica's are perfect and defenetly the prince



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:08 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #17 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


rscheffler wrote:
Tariq, one thing about the 1DX though, is it doesn't show indications of banding. I'm still waiting for actual user tests of the M240 to see if the banding visible in some of the preproduction sample images has been fixed.


Yes, higher ISO performance seems to be the area in the DxOMARK tests which the 1DX is noticeably better.

Steve Huff's review of the production M says:

"With the new M I can comfortably go to ISO 3200 if needed, hell even 6400. So 6400 is a huge improvement since the M9 days BUT if you are shooting in the dark or VERY low light you may see some banding in ISO 6400 shots. In average light you will not see it, at least I did not."

So, it sounds like the banding is in the production body.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/03/11/the-leica-m-240-real-world-camera-review-2013-by-steve-huff/



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:10 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #18 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


philip_pj wrote:
The RX1 is a special camera, equal best sensor with D800....


Just one caveat is that DxOMark does not consider resolution so, of course, the RX1 sensor is nowhere near the D800 sensor when it comes to resolution.



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:16 PM
Mescalamba
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p.11 #19 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


thrice wrote:
Ugh, this hurts my brain.

CMOSIS have NOTHING to do with Kodak. Kodak sensor division is now Truesense.
CMOSIS are not newbies to sensors though, but they have not produced a consumer product, they supply industrial, medical, military etc.
With production firmware the M240 does not suffer from the banding seen in pre-production hardware/firmware.


Lol, yea my memory for names sux. Sorry. I knew these guys went somewhere and they are still making sensors. My bad.



Mar 15, 2013 at 01:20 PM
LightShow
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p.11 #20 · Doesn't look too good according to DxoMark


Mescalamba wrote:
Lol, yea my memory for names sux. Sorry. I knew these guys went somewhere and they are still making sensors. My bad.

50 lashes with a camera strap.



Mar 16, 2013 at 05:29 AM
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