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Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

pjny
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p.1 #1 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

Hi,

I am using the D4 in 12-bit RAW mode using Lightroom 4.3, Process 2012, and "Camera Standard" in camera calibration. The images look dull unless I switch to "Camera Vivid" but this usually crushes the shadow detail.

I was using Eric Chan's Camera Standard v4 profiles with my D3 and the results were really good. I cannot find any similar profiles for the D4.

I have the Colorchecker Passport and hoping not to have custom profiles. Is this the best solution? I've heard you have to make custom profiles for daylight etc.

I also tried the PSKiss Cross Camera Color but the results were off.

What's your D4 workflow?

Images are viewed on a calibrated NEC 27" PA271W.

Thanks.

Mar 02, 2013 at 08:30 AM

rhyder
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p.1 #2 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I'm really not trying to be harsh..or..a smart ass..but you've spent the money on some high end equipment....now spend some time on learning how to use a raw editor.

Mar 02, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Steve Torelli
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p.1 #3 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I'm not quite sure I understand your problem. You have the RAW files, the software and some extraordinarily good hardware. Aren't you processing your files in LR4 ?
All RAW files are going to look dull and unsharp but the info is there, just use Lightroom to bring it out.
Also, I'm sure the D4 is capable of 14 bit RAW, might as well use it.

Mar 02, 2013 at 02:43 PM

dgardner
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p.1 #4 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I hope I am not insulting you....(you have an awesome camera). If you haven't looked at this, lightroom killer tips is a great site. Also join NAPP for 100$, great tutorials. Also discounts typically pay for the membership. Kelby online training( can use for monthly fee or yearly)and has complete LR 4 tutorial.

Mar 02, 2013 at 02:44 PM

niXer
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p.1 #5 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I think this confuses a lot of people.

When you use a non-proprietary RAW convertors, basically anything not View/Capture NX you're getting a truly RAW file. This means it will look dull and unsharpened because it is truly RAW data. View/Capture NX will make it look like what you see on the back of your camera because it can decode those proprietary properties.

People use to complain and there are many threads over many of the years wanting to get Lightroom to match View/Capture NX's output. I use to be the same but now I don't care. Lightroom gives me more control, in a sense, than View/Capture NX does.

Mar 02, 2013 at 03:38 PM

theSuede
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p.1 #6 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I think you're over-reacting to the word "custom profile". It's not in any way as hard as you think, and you don't need that many of them.

Since you already have a Passport, you have a good starting point. The card is good, but the X-rite PP software is (in my not so humbe opinion) unfortunately pure cr*p. Their more expensive solutions for profiling is rather ok, but -expensive-. Try the results from Adobe's free ProfileEditor in stead.

Custom profiles are actually quite necessary for many occasions. There is quite simply put NO WAY to manually edit say 1000 shots from a badly lit indoors game in an arena with poor quality light and get good color results.

On other occasions - no need to be so picky. You CAN use the same profile for both sunlight (everything from heavy overcast to mid-noon blue sky) and studio flash, and get very good results.

I normally use four "standard" profiles. Sun, Flash, DeepShade, Fluorescent.
When the accuracy demands are higher, or there are "special circumstances" that I know will make a lot faster and easier to use a profile made for the occasion (than to try and manually edit something) - I do the custom profile. With the right tools, it just takes a few seconds, and it can litterally save hours later in an editing session after a click-intensive shoot.

Mar 02, 2013 at 04:11 PM

pjny
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p.1 #7 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

Thanks for the tip. I've been using LR since version 1 and I have invested a very large amount of time learning LR.

My question as in regards to the camera standard calibration profiles not looking right on the D4.

As you probably noticed the Adobe Standard profiles do not look as good as the Camera Standard. The camera standard profiles for the D3 also looked very different from the Camera standard v4 profiles that Eric Chan created. The camera v4 profiles yielded a better starting rendition of the image for me.

I use Lightroom to process images on deadline and am looking to streamline my new workflow with this camera.

I usually shoot news events or breaking news so I often don't have time to use the color checker passport.

rhyder wrote:
I'm really not trying to be harsh..or..a smart ass..but you've spent the money on some high end equipment....now spend some time on learning how to use a raw editor.

Mar 02, 2013 at 04:22 PM

pjny
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p.1 #8 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I understand that LR will ever look as good as NX out of box. I'm just looking for a better starting calibration than the current camera standard on the D4. I used Eric Chan's camera standard profiles for the D3 from version 2-v4 and they were way better than camera standard originally for the D3.

There are also other people asking on the web about this so I thought I would ask on this forum.

niXer wrote:
I think this confuses a lot of people.

When you use a non-proprietary RAW convertors, basically anything not View/Capture NX you're getting a truly RAW file. This means it will look dull and unsharpened because it is truly RAW data. View/Capture NX will make it look like what you see on the back of your camera because it can decode those proprietary properties.

People use to complain and there are many threads over many of the years wanting to get Lightroom to match View/Capture NX's output. I use to be the same but now I don't care. Lightroom gives me more control, in a sense, than View/Capture NX does.

Mar 02, 2013 at 04:28 PM

pjny
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p.1 #9 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

Anyone tried the profiles on Huelight Color Fidelity Photoshop & Lightroom Camera Profiles at colorfidelity.com?
It was recommended on another forum.

I tried the PSKiss profiles and they were not very good.

Mar 02, 2013 at 04:48 PM

sjms
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p.1 #10 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I don't use anyone's profiles. why do you need someone's else's idea of perceived reality?

Mar 02, 2013 at 04:52 PM

pjny
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p.1 #11 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

As I said earlier: I am working on deadline delivering images so I don't have time to muck around too much. I am looking for something that gets me in the ballpark and I can then tweak quickly for transmitting. There are other forums where this is currently being discussed and people do agree that this is a problem without a good solution(so far).

It's kind of like the green LCD problem on the D4. It throws you off.

sjms wrote:
I don't use anyone's profiles. why do you need someone's else's idea of perceived reality?

Mar 02, 2013 at 04:55 PM

sjms
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p.1 #12 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

what green lcd problem? I've been shooting this camera since it came out. I have not noticed any real issues with its back screen other then it is something I don't use for reference other then mild review. It doesn't throw me of because for the most part I ignore it. I had heard of the D800 having it. I guess that "virus" spread now. i'll just go on not getting involved with perceived problems.

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:03 PM

pjny
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p.1 #13 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

http://www.google.com/search?q=green+d4+lcd&aq=f&oq=green+d4+lcd

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/41133868

i would hardly say it is a "perceived problem".

sjms wrote:
what green lcd problem? I've been shooting this camera since it came out. I have not noticed any real issues with its back screen other then it is something I don't use for reference other then mild review. It doesn't throw me of because for the most part I ignore it. I had heard of the D800 having it. I guess the "virus" spread. i'll just go on not getting involved with perceived problems.

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:10 PM

sjms
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p.1 #14 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I would. I guess i'm lucky because mine gives a reasonably good review image that is relatively unbiased to any particular color hue.

Edited on Mar 02, 2013 at 05:17 PM · View previous versions

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:11 PM

pjny
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p.1 #15 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

Good for you.

sjms wrote:
I would

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:12 PM

Mescalamba
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p.1 #16 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

Do your own color profiles, its always best solution, cause even colors in camera are "within manufacturers tolerance". Which simply means, colors from your D4 wont be identical to other D4 (tho shouldnt be visible in real life, but I really dont know how big is that color tolerance).

And original LR profiles are always sorta usable but very far from perfect. Actually never saw that LR would work colorwise good with any camera. Its always just "so-so".

Since you are using Nikon camera, try trial of Capture One Pro 7, cause except for Canon, their color profiles are usually way better and seemed nice enough for me with D3.

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:24 PM

rhyder
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p.1 #17 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

pjny wrote:
Thanks for the tip. I've been using LR since version 1 and I have invested a very large amount of time learning LR.

My question as in regards to the camera standard calibration profiles not looking right on the D4.

As you probably noticed the Adobe Standard profiles do not look as good as the Camera Standard. The camera standard profiles for the D3 also looked very different from the Camera standard v4 profiles that Eric Chan created. The camera v4 profiles yielded a better starting rendition of the image for me.

I use Lightroom to process images on deadline and am looking to streamline my new workflow with this camera.

I usually shoot news events or breaking news so I often don't have time to use the color checker passport.

rhyder wrote:
I'm really not trying to be harsh..or..a smart ass..but you've spent the money on some high end equipment....now spend some time on learning how to use a raw editor.

I NEVER use the "standard" profiles.....I actually "edit" my photos. I never use the "color checker" either. I use auto WB and set it off of something that's white in the scene and then use synchronize to change the other files...takes about 6-8 seconds. You could always make your own profile.............

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:29 PM

pjny
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p.1 #18 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I've tried Capture One Pro 7 and liked the color rendition but I find LR has a quicker workflow for me.

My trial C1 Pro 7 just expired so I cannot check if the profiles for the D4 are better. Anyone using C1 Pro 7 with D4 here?

Mescalamba wrote:
Do your own color profiles, its always best solution, cause even colors in camera are "within manufacturers tolerance". Which simply means, colors from your D4 wont be identical to other D4 (tho shouldnt be visible in real life, but I really dont know how big is that color tolerance).

And original LR profiles are always sorta usable but very far from perfect. Actually never saw that LR would work colorwise good with any camera. Its always just "so-so".

Since you are using Nikon camera, try trial of Capture One Pro 7, cause except for Canon, their color profiles are usually way better and seemed nice enough for me with D3.

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:36 PM

pjny
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p.1 #19 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

Just because you don't have any perceived problems does not mean there isn't a problem.

The D4 green tint issue is widely documented whether you notice it or not.

What will you say next: the D800 doesn't have a left-af point focusing issue?

The D600 has no sensor oil splatter issues?

sjms wrote:
I just got done shooting images of damage progression in the main building of NPS Ellis Island in NY harbor for the US NPS. I do this every other week for them at 200+ locations throughout the building. the locations vary from little to no light to well lit. I would honestly think I would notice if there was a hue difference after a short time. or maybe i'm just used to it

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:53 PM

derry1
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p.1 #20 · Why do D4 images look bad on Lightroom 4.3?

I'm with rhyder on this question,, correct one to your preference and sync the rest,,

Derry

Mar 02, 2013 at 05:56 PM

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