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Archive 2013 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?
  
 
galenapass
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


Bsmooth wrote:
I don't think theres a perception about the noise issue for the 7D, its there. I did also work with some files from it as well. There is a noise issue, even with files at low ISO's. There not horrible, but they are there, and yes its probably only pixel peeping that you can see them.
Its sort of like a small scratch on your car, everyone else goes what a great finish, yet you know where that scratch is and it bugs you everytime you see it.
Plus its a compromise of sorts, its kept a lot of people
...Show more

But the quality of that sensor and the files it has are really fantastic

Yes! +1



Feb 26, 2013 at 05:27 PM
jasonpatrick
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


I have a 1dIII and love it, but there aren't a lot of ultra wide options for this camera. If you want both birds in flight, and landscape, the 7D is going to be a great compromise.

For Birds in flight, I prefer my 1dIII, for landscapes, I bought a 5d classic. The 7d can do both well within it's limitations. There are some really nice ef-s ultra wide lenses for the short end, and for the long, you get a lot of pixels on your subject. If you're looking for a camera that can do both well, and are focal length limited, the 7d is a no brainer.




Feb 26, 2013 at 05:46 PM
RogerC11
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


7d @ ISO 3200


IMG_0346 by xrchanx, on Flickr



Feb 26, 2013 at 05:50 PM
galenapass
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


Looks good Roger.


Feb 26, 2013 at 06:59 PM
uz2work
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


dhphoto wrote:
You responded to a post about file processing with a lesson on how over-sharpening can ruin an image. The first comment wasn't about sharpening, it was about file processing generally.

It's perfectly reasonable to point out that you either misquoted or misinterpreted the first post


Like I said, it seems like somebody must have peed in your coffee this morning. I'll leave it at that.



Feb 26, 2013 at 07:30 PM
uz2work
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


galenapass wrote:
It is you that has misinterpreted Les's post. Clearly Les agreed and was drilling down on one aspect of processing - sharpening- and it happens to be pertinent to the discussion because sharpening and noise go hand in hand, particularly on the 7D. That is why the new C7 release is of interest to me because I see that noise is handled much better when files are sharpened.

For those reading this post, and that don't want to argue pointlessly, the new C7 maybe worth a quick look with how 7D files are handled.



Are you referring to Capture One 7? If not, I'll have to admit that I need to be told what C7 is.

Les



Feb 26, 2013 at 07:32 PM
Bsmooth
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


After reading these posts, it would appear someone must have peed in a lot of peoples coffee this morning.
And as usual it appears we have veered slightly off topic.(theres something new )
Its nice to see the loyalty to the camera one way or the other. And with lots of post processing, I'm sure almost any camera files can look good, but thats not really the point.
I don't think any camera should need "special" processing to look good, but If you happen to own a 7D its good to know, theres a workaround.



Feb 26, 2013 at 07:45 PM
uz2work
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


Bsmooth wrote:
There is a noise issue, even with files at low ISO's. There not horrible, but they are there, and yes its probably only pixel peeping that you can see them.
Its sort of like a small scratch on your car, everyone else goes what a great finish, yet you know where that scratch is and it bugs you everytime you see it.
.


But the point is that, if you up scale 1D Mark III images to match the resolution of the 7D, the noise of the up scaled 1D Mark III files will be very similar to those from the 7D, and that will be true at the pixel level, too. So, if you are are bothered by noise that isn't a problem at the image level but only at the pixel level, the 1D Mark III files should bother you to an extent similar to the level at which the 7D files bother you.

Among the many DSLRs that I've owned, there have been a 1D Mark III and 7D. I essentially process(ed) files from both cameras the same way, and the same thing is true of my 1D Mark IV files. On several occasions, both on line and in person with prints, I've challenged those who say that they don't like the 7D image quality to determine, from a group of 8 pictures, which were taken with the 7D and which were taken with the 1D Mark IV. Out of the dozens of people who have taken a shot at that challenge, I'm yet to see a single instance where someone could tell me which images were taken with which camera at a level of accuracy any greater than what would be expected with random guesses. And I'm confident that I could do the same thing with a group of 7D and 1D Mark III images, and even though those who say that they can immediately recognize the allegedly poor quality of 7D images would not be able to accurately identify which images were produced by which camera. And all of this goes along with the strong belief that I've developed that, even if there are real image quality differences between different recently produced cameras (or lenses), the extent of those differences is not nearly as large as one would be lead to believe from reading posts on internet forums.

Les



Feb 26, 2013 at 07:50 PM
galenapass
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


uz2work wrote:
Are you referring to Capture One 7? If not, I'll have to admit that I need to be told what C7 is.

Les


Sorry - yes Capture 7.



Feb 26, 2013 at 09:05 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


Bsmooth wrote:
After reading these posts, it would appear someone must have peed in a lot of peoples coffee this morning.
And as usual it appears we have veered slightly off topic.(theres something new )
Its nice to see the loyalty to the camera one way or the other. And with lots of post processing, I'm sure almost any camera files can look good, but thats not really the point.
I don't think any camera should need "special" processing to look good, but If you happen to own a 7D its good to know, theres a workaround.




What special processing? Nothing I do on my 7D files is any different to my other cameras files. No need for a workaround.








Feb 26, 2013 at 09:36 PM
 

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mark fadely
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


I shot the MKIII and 7D side by side at a birding venue a while back. The 7D files were comparable to the MKIII. There were not quite as many in sharp focus with the 7D but the difference was not significant. There is a certain quality in the MKIII files that is not present in the 7D files. The MKIII files are more similar in color, contrast and smooth quality to the original 5D files. As Les suggests, I'm not sure you can even prove this with small web size files. 7D files can be processed with modern software to rival even 1DX or 5DIII files so a lot of it depends on the skill of the artist.

If you are always reach limited then I would pick the 7D. In my birding I choose environments where 400mm and 1.3x is enough. Otherwise I pack up and live to shoot another day. I'm not getting paid to shoot birds, but if I was and I had to get the shot then I would have a 7D in my bag for that reason alone.



Feb 26, 2013 at 09:44 PM
aladyforty
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


I own both but to be honest I got sick of the noise from 7D. I passed the camera onto my hubby who basically set the in camera noise reduction and just shoots jpegs, he does not post process except maybe cropping so the camera suits him. For me, well I was just over the extra time to fix a basic photo if I had the iSO over 400. The 1DIII files have a smooth creamy look to them and often I just leave the noise in the photo because as it does not look too bad. I am considering when the next crop camera from canon comes out (7D2) upgrading but if they cant get the noise close to 5DII noise wise I wont bother

Edited on Mar 04, 2013 at 04:05 PM · View previous versions



Feb 26, 2013 at 11:00 PM
RogerC11
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


All I do is import two photos into photoshop cs5 as 2 different layers. The original layer (background image) is laid underneath a separate layer that has been cleaned of noise. I then just erase the clean layer to reveal the original subject underneath and run a quick unsharp mask to the selected area I prefer. Aside from color adjustments, that's it. It's really not that complicated of a process. I'm not really sure of the other more complicated processes that other people are using on the 7d but I have found my method to work extremely well up to ISO 3200 such as the image I had previously posted to this thread.





Feb 26, 2013 at 11:35 PM
Jeff_Stapleton
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


I've used both cameras side by side for over a year.

My thoughts:
In normal decently lit shooting, the 7D is my camera of choice. Kids, portrait work, weddings, etc. The increase in resolution, especially when shooting RAW, is a big deal to me. In fact, I have a wedding this saturday where I'll probably use the 7D most of the day over the 1D3.

But, I don't really do normal shooting all the time. High School sports make up a huge chunk of what I do in the fall. 6400, for me, is when the 7D starts to fall apart. The noise is a different quality at that level. I can clean up the 1D3 noise much easer than the 7D. The extra stop of light gained from being able to push to 12800 was never a usable thing for me. Focus on the 1D3 was also better, ESPECIALLY in low light.

Overall, it really depends on what you're shooting. Personally, I'm saving and selling (one or both bodies) to get the 5D3.



Feb 27, 2013 at 12:51 AM
uz2work
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


For those who are troubled by the noise in 7D images, who insist on judging noise at the pixel level, and who are waiting for the 7D Mark II, I suggest the likelihood that they are going to like the 7D Mark II even less than they like the 7D. The 7D Mark II will have more pixels than does the 7D. I would expect modest improvements in noise at the image level, but I will be surprised if there is less noise at the pixel level.

As Canon has introduced new bodies in recent years, the pattern has been that the new model has more pixels than the model it has replaced. With each new model, Canon proclaims multiple stops of high ISO improvement, but the reality turns out to be only a fraction of that at the image level and little or no improvement at the pixel level. I expect nothing different with a 7D replacement.

As pixel density continues to increase (and it will) what you will see when you compare images at 100% isn't likely to get any prettier than it is now. And, even though 7D Mark II images are likely to look better with respect to both noise and detail than 1D Mark III images at the image level, those who want to make the meaningless comparison at the pixel level are still going to be likely to think that the 1D Mark III is better.

Les



Feb 27, 2013 at 01:42 AM
aladyforty
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


RogerC11 wrote:
All I do is import two photos into photoshop cs5 as 2 different layers. The original layer (background image) is laid underneath a separate layer that has been cleaned of noise. I then just erase the clean layer to reveal the original subject underneath and run a quick unsharp mask to the selected area I prefer. Aside from color adjustments, that's it. It's really not that complicated of a process. I'm not really sure of the other more complicated processes that other people are using on the 7d but I have found my method to work extremely well up to
...Show more

never thought of doing that. I still use a 50D on occasion and found the files easier to clean up than the 7D files. I'm tempted to buy another 7D as the price drops and use it for shots where I need crop ability. Also to be honest, when I was using 7D I did not have lightroom. Maybe I need to give it another go, however I will have to buy another one as the hubby has the one I had and wont hand it back, he takes it to work every day so I'm not getting the chance to use it. I would be happy to use the 1DIII as my backup for weddings and portraits to the 5DII if I could work out post processing with a 7D to my satisfaction



Feb 27, 2013 at 02:24 AM
RogerC11
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


aladyforty wrote:
never thought of doing that. I still use a 50D on occasion and found the files easier to clean up than the 7D files. I'm tempted to buy another 7D as the price drops and use it for shots where I need crop ability. Also to be honest, when I was using 7D I did not have lightroom. Maybe I need to give it another go, however I will have to buy another one as the hubby has the one I had and wont hand it back, he takes it to work every day so I'm not getting the chance
...Show more

You should try it! You might really like the results



Feb 27, 2013 at 02:35 AM
galenapass
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


RogerC11 wrote:
All I do is import two photos into photoshop cs5 as 2 different layers. The original layer (background image) is laid underneath a separate layer that has been cleaned of noise. I then just erase the clean layer to reveal the original subject underneath and run a quick unsharp mask to the selected area I prefer. Aside from color adjustments, that's it. It's really not that complicated of a process. I'm not really sure of the other more complicated processes that other people are using on the 7d but I have found my method to work extremely well up to
...Show more

Interesting I have not tried that. Thanks.



Feb 27, 2013 at 03:31 AM
RogerC11
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


galenapass wrote:
Interesting I have not tried that. Thanks.

Cheers!



Feb 27, 2013 at 03:45 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · 7D or 1D Mark III ?


galenapass wrote:
Looks good Roger.


Witchcraft.



Feb 27, 2013 at 04:25 AM
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