"AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

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"AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR&quo...

SweetMk
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p.1 #1 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

Prior to today, my D7000 has been used with a 50mm f1.8 and some old manual glass.

I mostly use "A" aperture mode with my D7000 because I am old school in my technique. I like to have an idea of depth of field, etc........ rather than letting the camera "guess" when I am making a "photograph".

For "snap shots" where I just want the camera to grab a picture of something, I use the AUTO and P modes, less thinking needed, I get good enough results

So, today I ordered a 18-200 VR because of the sale. I have never used a VR lens before.

If I set the camera to AUTO or P mode, does the camera account for the 4 stops of VR assistance, or does the D7000 treat the lens like a non-VR?

Am I still going to have to use "A" mode to get the most out of the new lens, or is the D7000 smarter than that?

If I turn off the VR, will the D7000 use a different set of parameters to formulate a picture?

Feb 19, 2013 at 03:32 PM

popinvasion
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p.1 #2 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

Get into manual.

Feb 19, 2013 at 03:42 PM

SAng
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p.1 #3 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

The bodies are not aware of VR, AFAIK.

Feb 19, 2013 at 04:00 PM

mkchang
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p.1 #4 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

I think you are confused as to what VR really is. It's just a gyro that counteracts camera shake. A lens is still a lens and should be treated as such.

Feb 19, 2013 at 04:02 PM

BenV
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p.1 #5 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

mkchang wrote:
I think you are confused as to what VR really is. It's just a gyro that counteracts camera shake. A lens is still a lens and should be treated as such.

This is your answer OP.

VR is "vibration reduction". It has nothing to do with your aperture, shutter speed, or anything else. Only you shaking the camera to help get sharper photos at lower shutter speeds.

Feb 19, 2013 at 04:10 PM

SweetMk
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p.1 #6 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

mkchang wrote:
I think you are confused as to what VR really is. It's just a gyro that counteracts camera shake. A lens is still a lens and should be treated as such.

I understand that. BUT,

Nikon claims 4 stops better performance due to VR.

I would expect the AUTO mode, @ 60mm focal length, to shoot the pic @1/90 sec or faster, for a non-VR lens.

That should mean at 60mm, I should be able to hand hold an in-focus pic at less than 1/90 sec. with VR.

Would the D7000, with VR, attempt to take a 60mm pic @1/10 sec (or whatever) when in AUTO mode?

Does the D7000 use VR in its calculations, or does it default to non-VR settings?

These cameras seem to have a lot of computing capability, it would seem foolish to leave 4 stops of performance on the side of the road.

Feb 19, 2013 at 04:21 PM

Graystar
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p.1 #7 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

P mode and green auto are not the same. With P mode you have full control over exposure and settings. With green Auto or Scene modes, you don't.

Green Auto mode will attempt to give settings that "work"...shutter speed not too slow, ISO not too high, aperture not so open for sharp detail. It tries to select a middle ground and will pop the flash if necessary. The Scene modes apply some photographic knowledge to the process. For example, if you select sports mode then the camera will favor a high shutter speed over low ISO, enable continuous focus, and disable flash and focus assist light.

P mode is simply another exposure mode...same as A mode, S mode, and M mode. P mode does nothing more than select an aperture and shutter based on the current EV level of the scene. The program chart is in the back of the D7000 manual on page 298. For example, if the EV of the scene is 12 at ISO 100, then you'll get f/5.6 and 1/125s. There's no decision making here...you always get the same values for the same EV. What you can do, however, is use the Flexible-Program function to select other combinations that provide 12 EV (as described on page 68 of the manual.)

P mode just gives you a working starting point. If you maintain the meter on the same tone, or lock exposure, you can then select any aperture/shutter combination you want for that exposure level. And you can use the EC function to adjust exposure. So you have as much control over exposure and over which settings are used as you do in any other exposure mode...you simply have to know how your camera works.

What you're really asking about is the Auto ISO function. In regards to Scene modes, I don't know if the VR of the lens is taken into account. I would imagine that it isn't because the idea of adjusting shutter speed based on focal length is mostly useless to begin with. That's because shutter speed is usually far more limited by the subject matter. If you're shooting birds in flight you need to use at least 1/800s to freeze the birds, pretty much regardless of your focal length. You need at least 1/320 or 1/500s for most sports. And for shooting people you usually need 1/120s (1/60s at a bare minimum.) So many times the 1/FL rule (which is actually 1/FL x crop factor for crop cameras) leaves you short on shutter speed.

When using the MASP modes, Nikon's Auto ISO function is used. With Auto ISO, you specify what the Minimum Shutter Speed should be. So if you're shooting sports, you set the MSS to 1/500s. Now, while you're shooting in A mode it doesn't matter what the zoom position is, the shutter speed will never go below 1/500s, and ISO is adjusted to make up the difference in exposure.

But then lets say you're shooting people sitting around at a picnic with your 70-300mm VR. You can set the MSS to 1/120s and know you'll get sharp images without an excessively high ISO. The reason is that the even if you zoom in to 300mm, the camera will not suddenly decide that you need a shutter of 1/500s due to your focal length. The VR system will keep the image sharp, and the Auto ISO will make sure that you have at least the minimum shutter speed required for the subject matter.

The D4, D800, and D600 recently got an "auto" option for the MSS, so that shutter speed can be based on focal length. I guess it might be useful if you have some non-VR glass of longer focal lengths. Considering that it was a simple function that could have been implemented years and years ago, I think Nikon simply added the "auto" function so that idiot reviewers would finally shut the hell up about the Auto ISO not being based on focal length. I certainly can't see such a function being useful because you must still consider the shutter speed requirements of the subject.

Feb 19, 2013 at 04:39 PM

SweetMk
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p.1 #8 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

I do not have the VR lens yet, I just ordered it.

But, I do have the 18-70 kit lens from my D70s. I slapped it on the D7000 and pointed it out the window.

In fact, it does radically change the f-stop and shutter speed as you zoom the lens, while in "P" mode.

(AUTO mode just popped up the flash, "no flash" mode also corrected the shutter speed as focal length changes)

As the zoom length increases, the shutter speed number increases (less time) , as would be expected. +1 for the Nikon computer.

So, back to my original question, does the Nikon computer have the capability to take into account the 4 stops of VR?

Feb 19, 2013 at 04:54 PM

wellsjt
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p.1 #9 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

I believe the question has already been answered above quite clearly, but I'll try: No, the camera will not choose slower shutter speeds because you have a VR lens (and have the VR turned on).

Feb 19, 2013 at 05:13 PM

jjoyce
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p.1 #10 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

One thing I found on my D7K 18-200 (1st version) combo is you do need to allow the VR to settle for a sec or so. Seems like it takes that second for the gyros to gather enough info to understand how the lens is moving. You can see this while looking through the viewfinder. Once settled the VR seems to work great. I am not the steadiest of hand, but in the 18-85mm range I am getting sharp shots hand held down to 1/10.

Remember the VR only helps camera shake, it will not help if the subject is moving.

On the other side I usually turn off VR above 1/400th. I have read and seen a couple of my high speed shots have a double image. I think this is because the VR is not fast enough to keep up. At 1/500 there is really no need for VR anyway, it is for slow shots.

Feb 19, 2013 at 05:31 PM

roland hale
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p.1 #11 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

SweetMk wrote:

So, back to my original question, does the Nikon computer have the capability to take into account the 4 stops of VR?

No.

Feb 19, 2013 at 06:29 PM

Graystar
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p.1 #12 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

SweetMk wrote:
But, I do have the 18-70 kit lens from my D70s. I slapped it on the D7000 and pointed it out the window.

In fact, it does radically change the f-stop and shutter speed as you zoom the lens, while in "P" mode.

As the zoom length increases, the shutter speed number increases (less time) , as would be expected. +1 for the Nikon computer.

The shutter may have increased, but it's not due to the zoom position. That's due to the exposure. If you zoomed into a bright spot, then your shutter will increase, and your aperture will get smaller, as specified in the P-mode chart. If you tried this on an evenly lit wall, where you'll get the same scene luminance no matter how you're zoomed, you'll see that aperture/shutter remain the same.

And it's certainly not expected. There are some Nikon cameras where that does happen...my D90, for example. The P-mode chart actually has three plots, based on focal length. Focal lengths longer than 135mm get a shutter that's one stop faster than what a 50mm lens would get. The D7000 P-mode only has one plot, so the shutter doesn't change with focal length.

There's simply no functionality within the MASP modes and within Auto ISO of the D7000 that is based on focal length. There MAY be such functionality in the Scene modes, but that's info that we don't have access to.

Feb 19, 2013 at 07:32 PM

SweetMk
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p.1 #13 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

I tried this several times, I just tried it on an evenly lit daytime clear sky.

The shutter gets faster as the focal length gets longer, the f-stop is changing in relation to the shutter speed change, to maintain the correct exposure.

This is exactly what it should do in relation to the focal length change.

This is only a 3.8X zoom. The 18-200mm is 11X.

I do see the camera reacting to the focal length change, correctly, in fact.

Feb 19, 2013 at 07:45 PM

Graystar
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p.1 #14 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

SweetMk wrote:
This is exactly what it should do in relation to the focal length change.

I do see the camera reacting to the focal length change, correctly, in fact.

To say that it's changing "correctly" means that it's changing in accordance to some prescribed operation. Please point us to the page in the D7000 manual that describes this behavior. Or the Nikon website page where this behavior is described.

P-mode operation on the D7000 and others has been discussed at length in other forums, and your D7000 would be the first to do what you say it's doing...especially since the D7000 manual explicitly says that it doesn't do that. The more probable explanation is that you're perception of what's happening is mistaken.

Pointed at the sky, the P-mode chart say that at ISO 100 you're likely at f/8 and 1/250s, which already puts you beyond the 1/FL x crop factor rule of your 18-70mm lens. Even 1/125s is faster than needed. There would be no need for the shutter to change. So your description of what's happening doesn't make sense.

Feb 19, 2013 at 08:53 PM

runamuck
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p.1 #15 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

The 4 stops is a measure of how long you can hand hold without blurring. IF you can't handhold at a shutter speed slower than 1/60, VR will allow you to handhold as long as 1/8 second. VR has ZERO effect on shutter speed or aperture. VR just steadies the lens.

On some P&S cameras, VR means the camera will jack up ISO automatically to gain a faster shutter speed. This does not pertain to SLR's though.

Feb 19, 2013 at 09:13 PM

curious80
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p.1 #16 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

runamuck wrote:
The 4 stops is a measure of how long you can hand hold without blurring. IF you can't handhold at a shutter speed slower than 1/60, VR will allow you to handhold as long as 1/8 second. VR has ZERO effect on shutter speed or aperture. VR just steadies the lens.

On some P&S cameras, VR means the camera will jack up ISO automatically to gain a faster shutter speed. This does not pertain to SLR's though.

I think you misunderstood OP's question. As you said, VR steadies the camera and as a result you can hand-hold the camera at slower shutter speeds. OP's question is whether the camera factors in this additional stability when choosing a shutter speed in Auto Mode. As you said in your example, VR will allow you to hand hold at 1/8s instead of 1/60s. However if the camera does not factor the VR into account then in the Auto mode it will not select a shutter speed slower than 1/60s because camera will "think" that a shutter speed lower than 1/60s will cause camera shake. However if the camera is aware that a VR lens is in use then it can choose a slower shutter speed knowing that camera shake will be taken care of by VR system.

Feb 19, 2013 at 09:56 PM

curious80
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p.1 #17 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

SweetMk wrote:
I do not have the VR lens yet, I just ordered it.

But, I do have the 18-70 kit lens from my D70s. I slapped it on the D7000 and pointed it out the window.

In fact, it does radically change the f-stop and shutter speed as you zoom the lens, while in "P" mode.

(AUTO mode just popped up the flash, "no flash" mode also corrected the shutter speed as focal length changes)

As the zoom length increases, the shutter speed number increases (less time) , as would be expected. +1 for the Nikon computer.

So, back to my original question, does the Nikon computer have the capability to take into account the 4 stops of VR?

I don't really know the answer to this question for Nikon DSLRs. However I do know that my Canon S95 P&S did take the IS into consideration and went as low as 1/20s in P mode before it increased the ISO. I nevertheless I had mixed feelings about it. For static scenes it was great, but I also got far too many blurred photographs of my daughter as she is moving all the time and 1/20s is simply too slow for her. As a result I like it that my current P&S RX100 does not have this behavior and it bumps the ISO to its maximum limit before going to lower shutter speeds.

So if your subjects have people in it specially kids then I would say it is better if the camera doesn't factor the VR into account in Auto mode.

Feb 19, 2013 at 10:10 PM

lxdesign
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p.1 #18 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

I don't use any auto exposure modes... Even aperture priority.

Feb 19, 2013 at 11:25 PM

wellsjt
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p.1 #19 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

SweetMk wrote:
I tried this several times, I just tried it on an evenly lit daytime clear sky.

The shutter gets faster as the focal length gets longer, the f-stop is changing in relation to the shutter speed change, to maintain the correct exposure.

This is exactly what it should do in relation to the focal length change.

This is only a 3.8X zoom. The 18-200mm is 11X.

I do see the camera reacting to the focal length change, correctly, in fact.

No. You are witnessing the aperture changing as you zoom because you are using a variable aperture zoom lens. P mode is trying to shoot your zoom lens wide open, but that aperture changes as you zoom. I just verified this by trying both both a variable aperture and fixed aperture zoom lens in P mode (which I never use). The variable aperture lens aperture stops down as I zoom to longer focal lengths and thus the shutter speed needs to SLOW (not the other way around as you indicated) to maintain exposure. On the fixed aperture zoom, the aperture does not change and thus the shutter speed also did not change.

Feb 19, 2013 at 11:37 PM

Graystar
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p.1 #20 · "AUTO" and "P" modes and "VR" Effect on the D7000

lxdesign wrote:
I don't use any auto exposure modes... Even aperture priority.
That's too bad...you're letting a lot of useful features go to waste. And if you think you somehow have more control over exposure by treating your modern marvel of technology like it's an original F, you're mistaken. The auto modes allow you to react to situations more quickly while providing the same precise control over exposure as M mode.

It's just a question of understanding how a modern camera works.

Feb 19, 2013 at 11:38 PM

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