Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

Sports Corner Rules
Sports Corner Resource
  

FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2013 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under ...
  
 
PennsyBill
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


I shot my 1st "late-in-the-day" soccer game this past week and had a rough time chasing the correct white-balance as the shadows got longer and the lights came on and then continued to full dark with only the stadium lights for illumination.

At full dark didn't have a problem but the last 30 minutes or so of daylight and mixed lights wore me out --- any tips on how to keep up with the constant changing - I've got another one the same way tomorrow night.



Feb 19, 2013 at 03:03 AM
rddayton
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Morning Bill,

Are you having an issue with the D3s or the D7000?

How are you setting the WB right now?

On the D3s, I almost always us auto WB for outdoor sports shooting. Haven't used the D7K for a a little more than a year -- and it was primarily used as a second body for daytime baseball.



Feb 19, 2013 at 10:04 AM
schlotz
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Very low sun can provide quite a warming "golden hour" effect. You might find a kelvin setting to help off-set it, that is if you are trying to ease the "orange effect on faces" etc... Would suggest you take a quick look at some of your shots in something ie LR or CS and see which lower figure works best. Then set your body's wb to that amount. OTOH, maybe simpler to just shoot with AWB and quick PP to the appropriate setting afterwards. I'm normally more concerned with getting the action, knowing I can quickly batch adjust later in LR to clean things up.

Matt



Feb 19, 2013 at 02:54 PM
Bruce Sawle
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


It's hard to tell without some photos posted. Generally in daylight with my Nikn gear auto or sunny WB work like a charm.


Feb 20, 2013 at 02:56 PM
Ed Peters
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


I would think one would shoot RAW and then handle any White Balance in post?


Feb 20, 2013 at 04:59 PM
Scott Sewell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


I'm with others who've suggested shooting AWB and worry about it in post. That will allow you to focus on capturing the action rather than "chasing the correct white balance."

Good luck.



Feb 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Scott Sewell wrote:
I'm with others who've suggested shooting AWB and worry about it in post. That will allow you to focus on capturing the action rather than "chasing the correct white balance."

Good luck.


It's an option when you have that latitude. I'm also one to advocate getting it right in camera as much as possible just in case you have to deliver images to your client moments after taking the shot. That being said, I'm a firm believer in knowing how to dial in Kelvin readings on the fly and knowing what Kelvin you need for each situation... cloudy, sunny, early morning, late afternoon, setting sun, dusk, and knowing all of these conditions with biases based on color of ground and jersey tops. Sounds daunting, but the more you shoot, the better you'll be able to walk into a shoot at any time of the day, survey the scene and decide, yup... 5200K and be correct within 100K either way. I won't say that you'll be able to dial on the fly with different gyms and the PITA cycling lights, but you can, should and WILL get it right outdoors many times the more you shoot.

That being said, I usually find that 5500K- 5800K is a good starting base in normal daylight. Salt to taste, but that should be the range. Continue to monitor your WB in the preview screen and as golden hour commences, you'll be able to tame the sun by dropping your kelvin about 100K every 10 minutes or so until your subject is in shade. That 10:1 ratio is not a steadfast rule, but it has been my working experience. Previews on the camera screen should dictate judgment. When the sun is completely set and your subjects are in shade, you'll actually have to warm up again. Like I said, you actually get good it, the more you do it.

Yeah, it's all kinda geeky, I know, but when it comes to delivering a ready to upload product to my employer, this knowledge goes a long way. Anytime you can prevent extra PP steps for your employer, the more valuable you become as a photographer. I often hear from my usual employers that they opt for my services because they know, it's pretty much throw the card into the reader and hit upload. That can go a long way in this very competitive market.



Feb 20, 2013 at 10:44 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Steven King
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


OK, so how can I not agree with Paul?

I've shot quite a bit of soccer in that kind of fading sunlight, and since I wasn't as smart to know how to dial in the Kelvin numbers, I would change my WB settings based on the light. Looking at a page that told me what I wasn't doing it every 10 minutes, though I should have, and used the sun over my shoulder rule, since shooting into "the perfect hour of light" wouldn't have made sense. This meant running around a bit more to get the right action, but it worked. I did remember that I could warm up my shots in direct sun by using cloudy settings, then shade, etc. AWB usually meant that you were guaranteed to NOT get it just right ever, but to always be a bit off. So I looked up a few things that helped me, which Paul describes very well. If I could do a custom WB setting every 10 minutes I'd love it, but that's too much work in setting and/or changing sunlight. It works for indoors lighting conditions much better.
Here are a couple of good articles I've bookmarked that may help you too.

http://www.3drender.com/glossary/colortemp.htm
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

BTW, the more PP you do the more you'll end up hating yourself. As a good PE once told me, get it right in camera and you'll rarely need to shoot in RAW. Since I shoot on deadline almost all the time, that's great advice.



Feb 21, 2013 at 01:36 AM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Steven King wrote:
OK, so how can I not agree with Paul?

I've shot quite a bit of soccer in that kind of fading sunlight, and since I wasn't as smart to know how to dial in the Kelvin numbers, I would change my WB settings based on the light. Looking at a page that told me what I wasn't doing it every 10 minutes, though I should have, and used the sun over my shoulder rule, since shooting into "the perfect hour of light" wouldn't have made sense. This meant running around a bit more to get the right action, but it
...Show more

Those film guys... what do they know?




Feb 21, 2013 at 11:04 AM
Frank Lauri
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Paul Alesse wrote;
I'm also one to advocate getting it right in camera as much as possible just in case you have to deliver images to your client moments after taking the shot.

When I first joined FM....i was all over the place with WB and I eventually corrected affected images in post. Then Paul's advice of "getting it right in camera as much as possible" sunk in. This made things so much easier.

Over the years I never took the time to dabble with Kelvin settings....until last year when I shot some cheer wit Paul, Hammy and Shane. When we were dialing everything in....Paul said try this setting and within 2 clicks everything was set to go.

Heed their advice and knowledge on this "Geeky" stuff.

Since then I've used Kelvin a few times and found it to be helpful.

Steven....I like the chart you posed here and just saved it to my phone for future use in the field.



Feb 21, 2013 at 12:38 PM
Tom D
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Paul, are you determining what Kelvin is working best by only checking how the preview visually looks to your eye? Just wondered-- I remember a conversation with Sibi (Hammy's guy) about how he mostly nails it down by checking his histogram for all 3 channels...


Feb 21, 2013 at 03:07 PM
Scott Sewell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


I completely agree with the goal of getting it right in the camera. I also agree about becoming proficient enough as to walk into a room and know what the Kelvin might be. Same thing with exposure. I find the posts about "what are the exposure settings for Building XYZ" somewhat intriguing. One will eventually (hopefully!) get to the point of walking into a facility and knowing what it will take to get proper exposure for sports action....iso, aperture, shutter speed, white balance. But I have to sometimes remind myself that the reason people ask those kinds of questions is because they just don't have the experience and time behind the camera to know. My original reply may have been over-simplified and assuming things I probably shouldn't have assumed.

As with many things in photography, there are different ways to get the results you (and a client!) need and expect. A hobbyist is going to have different ways of doing things than someone shooting on deadline for a newspaper. Shooting cheer for someone like Hammy is a different animal altogether!! Yea, the basics of exposure and getting it right in camera are the same, but everything else is tossed out the window when one is pushing images as quickly as they need to be pushed in that situation! Ha!

Even when I'm shooting on a very tight deadline for a newspaper--and have less than one quarter to shoot a basketball game and submit 3-4 images, for example--I am confident enough in my workflow that I'd rather adjust minor color issues in post than worry about dealing with cycling lights on site. But when I'm shooting at a D1 facility with consistent (non-cycling!!) lights I'll set the Kelvin and call it good.

Hopefully the common objective in all those situations, however, is to consistently produce quality images, whether those images are for our own pleasure or for a paying client.



Feb 21, 2013 at 03:46 PM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · Shooting Soccer That Starts In Daylight & Ends Under Lights


Tom D wrote:
Paul, are you determining what Kelvin is working best by only checking how the preview visually looks to your eye? Just wondered-- I remember a conversation with Sibi (Hammy's guy) about how he mostly nails it down by checking his histogram for all 3 channels...


Tom... Initially, yes, but now just the preview.



Feb 21, 2013 at 06:23 PM





FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password