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Archive 2013 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you
  
 
PetKal
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p.4 #1 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


Jeff Nolten wrote:
A lot more fun than the DR thread!

I'd like to see the same comparison using a 1.4x. Like Niall, I'm waiting for f8 AF so I can use a 1.4x to equalize the reach of my 5D3 and 7D even if it costs me an ISO stop. So far my live view tests look promising.


Jeff, I do not think you'd need 1.4xTC on your 5DMkIII in order to match the reach of 7D. At low ISO they are similar in reach, however beyond ISO 1600, 1DMkIII starts to slay 7D.
Heck, I've got so much reach with 1DX, I will soon be downgrading my lenses from 500mm to 400 mm.


Edited on Feb 26, 2013 at 12:34 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2013 at 07:45 PM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #2 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


PetKal wrote:
Jerry, ole bean, have you noticed that the 1DX shot was cropped 200%, while the 7D image is 100%. ?


Yes Master, indeed did notice, that would be a demonstration of the power of the 'BIGGER' FF pixel
What I find most impressive is the high ISOs the 1DX is pumping out, seems Canon's 'one-step-back' megapixel race choice was a reasonable move.

Your 1D Marl II N and 1Ds Mark II images vs. 1DX bare this out, big pixels simply are cleaner. All three of those bodies at lower ISOs have an amazing look, much like the 5Dc does. Canon's FF sensor have been pretty sweet no matter their size.

I'm lookin forward to peeking at some of those fatter pixels sometime soon



Feb 21, 2013 at 07:46 PM
PetKal
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p.4 #3 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


StillFingerz wrote:
I'm lookin forward to peeking at some of those fatter pixels sometime soon


Jerry, you will like what you see. At low ISO (no higher than 3200) these new cameras give too much damn reach......so I shall start taking shorter lenses with me, such as 300 and 400.
At medium to high ISO values, i.e., 6400 to 25600, 500mm and 600mm lenses will still give me ample reach.



Feb 21, 2013 at 08:02 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #4 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


PetKal wrote:
Jeff, I do not think you'd need 1.4xTC on your 5DMkIII in order to match the reach of 7D. At low ISO they are similar inreach, however beyond ISO 1600, 1DMkIII starts to slay 7D.
Heck, I've got so much reach with 1DX, I will be soon downgrading my lenses from 500mm to 400 mm.


Thanks Peter, you are talking about pixel quality and I agree. I've always kept my 100-400 on a crop camera for the extra reach, but I've also noticed that my 100-400 images look so much better when a 5D takes them. So f8 AF gives me the choice of optical reach on the 5D3 equal to pixel density reach on the 7D. A back of the envelope comparison is 5184 7D pixels X 1.6 vs 5760 5D3 pixels X 1.4 or 8294 vs 8064 PDUs (pixel per duck units) or approximately equal. The question is which will yield the better image given that the 5D + 1.4x will be one stop darker. I'm betting at least equal.

Edit: What I'm hoping for here is approaching the cleanliness of your 1DX image with the resolution of the noisy 7D image.


Edited on Feb 21, 2013 at 09:40 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2013 at 08:23 PM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #5 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


PetKal wrote:
Jerry, you will like what you see. At low ISO (no higher than 3200) these new cameras give too much damn reach......so I shall start taking shorter lenses with me, such as 300 and 400.
At medium to high ISO values, i.e., 6400 to 25600, 500mm and 600mm lenses will still give me ample reach.


Peter that is like pure raw honey when I hear you say that given the 400mm will probably be my largest bit of glass. Even though adding a 1.4x T/C to the 400 will blowout AF, we'll see how those fat pixels of the 6D work, I manually focus with film, caught a few surfers in my day



Feb 21, 2013 at 08:59 PM
PetKal
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p.4 #6 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


Going by pixel density alone, that is a forumography reach definition. In order to arrive at the real reach, one must factor in a few other critical camera features such as ISO noise performance and AF performance.

Several weeks ago I tried using 7D with 600 f/4 II + 1.4xTC MkIII, hoping to take advantage of high 7D pixel density on some stationary targets. However, the camera AF performance with that combo was terribly bad, which left me with pathetically poor effective reach. Since I didn't get any keepers due to such AF limitations, that meant the use of 7D resulted in no reach.



Feb 21, 2013 at 10:14 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #7 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


I agree Peter, when you have lens on the critter out in the field the factors affecting a successful capture are many. And I find it hard to simulate here at home. On a trip to Costa Rica last November it was overcast most of the trip and I was often working under dense foliage so I had to push ISO to keep the shutter speed up for the 100-400. This is when the 7D pixel density becomes a liability and I'd probably be better off using FF and settling for less ultimate reach. But there are other considerations, the 7D has all cross type AF points where the 5D3 is limited to the center cloud and just the center point at f8. I won't really know how the two compare until I can test them together in some real world situations.

I'm encouraged by 1DX user reports that the single f8 point works fairly well. I'm hoping the 5D3 firmware upgrade will work as well and that it too will get the 4 assist points for AI focus. Currently 5D3 Group H lenses don't get those.



Feb 21, 2013 at 10:54 PM
 

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PetKal
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p.4 #8 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I'm encouraged by 1DX user reports that the single f8 point works fairly well. I'm hoping the 5D3 firmware upgrade will work as well and that it too will get the 4 assist points for AI focus. Currently 5D3 Group H lenses don't get those.


Let us hope 5DMkIII gets the auxilliary AF points as well.

A funny thing in the Nikon forumography camps all over the net........they celebrate the 2x crop factor in D7100. A few folks feel that D7100 will turn their 400mm lenses into 800mm lenses.
Where have we gone wrong with damn crop factors ?



Feb 21, 2013 at 11:01 PM
abqnmusa
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p.4 #9 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


The 5D III improved my birds in flight photography in several ways.

The 5D III focus is much more reliable than the 7D was with 400mm F5.6 or 300mm F4.
The 5D III allows me to autofocus at F8 with my Tamron 1.4X TC. I find this works well for Birds in Flight in good light. I have good light most of the time here in NM. So 560mm F8 on the 400mm F5.6 is a usable option.
The 5D III is much better at ISO 800 and above for noise. I do not fight noise as I did with the 7D.
When I am not shooting birds I like the full frame for wide angle lenses.

not trying to offend any 7D owners. Some have better luck with 7D than I did.
just my results.

I have been reading Petkals and others posts on the 400mm F4 DO IS and 300mm F2.8
but for now will have to use the 300mm F4 / 400mm F5.6 & TC's


Tamron SP AF 1.4x Pro TC
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007YZLJ4/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01

I look forward to the 5D III firmware update to allow use of the Canon 1.4X III TC at F8





5D III / Canon 400mm F5.6 / Tamron 1.4X TC

  Canon EOS 5D Mark III    EF400mm f/5.6L USM lens    560mm    f/8.0    1/1250s    500 ISO    0.0 EV  







5D III / Canon 400mm F5.6 / Tamron 1.4X TC

  Canon EOS 5D Mark III    EF400mm f/5.6L USM lens    560mm    f/9.0    1/2500s    800 ISO    0.0 EV  







5D III / Canon 400mm F5.6 / Tamron 1.4X TC

  Canon EOS 5D Mark III    EF400mm f/5.6L USM lens    560mm    f/8.0    1/2000s    640 ISO    0.0 EV  







5D III / Canon 400mm F5.6 / Tamron 1.4X TC

  Canon EOS 5D Mark III    EF400mm f/5.6L USM lens    560mm    f/8.0    1/1600s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Feb 21, 2013 at 11:10 PM
PetKal
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p.4 #10 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


The most remarkable shot is that sparrow........super IQ with 400 f/5.6 + 1.4xTC (Tamron)....as clear as a bell.


Feb 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #11 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


Really nice BIF set Abqnmusa, must agree with Peter, that is a stunningly sharp shot of the Sparrow


Feb 21, 2013 at 11:52 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #12 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


abqnmusa wrote:
...not trying to offend any 7D owners. Some have better luck with 7D than I did.
just my results.


I think its what we're trying to do with the 7D although many seem to get magnificent results. I have another un-loved camera the G1X, same pixel pitch as the 7D but I get great results with it. I think its because I use it for landscape, family, or street etc. so even if I'm using higher ISO I'm not trying to use it for BIF or distant subjects or critters lurking in the shadows.

Here is a comparison I made in Costa Rica of a young basilisk lizard. The first image is the full 5D2 image, the second is a 100% crop. The third is a 7D capture reduced to 30D resolution then 100% crop and the 4th is the full 7D image. This guy was hiding in the vegetation and I had to lift the shadows a stop to bring him out. These are the best of a number of captures with the same 100-400 lens used on both bodies all worked up in Lightroom to the best of my ability. One shot in Av mode. The 5D2 was consistently better at focus. I tried several different 7D ISOs and none were any cleaner than this. Not a perfect comparison since the 7D ISO is a stop higher but the focus on the 400 ISO 7D image was worse and the noise no better.





  Canon EOS 5D Mark II    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/80s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  
















  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/160s    640 ISO    0.0 EV  



Edited on Feb 22, 2013 at 06:30 PM · View previous versions



Feb 22, 2013 at 02:03 AM
PetKal
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p.4 #13 · 5DMkIII/1DX: major gains to you


Jeff, that is a very good example, and it is fairly consistent with what I see.
Some of those decent 7D, relatively high ISO pictures we see repeatedly showcased around here, tend to be point blank photos in pretty good light.



Feb 22, 2013 at 02:09 AM
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