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Archive 2013 · New M240 Delayed
  
 
JohnJ
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p.3 #1 · New M240 Delayed


mortyb wrote:
+1. If this is the case, it's hilarious.


I don't really think it's true anyway, that Live View will be centre focusing only. It makes no sense at all to design such a limitation.



Feb 16, 2013 at 08:32 PM
thrice
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p.3 #2 · New M240 Delayed


It was never delayed since it never had a defined shipping date. Amazon and B&H arbitrarily make up release dates for Leica.


Feb 16, 2013 at 11:34 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #3 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
It was never delayed since it never had a defined shipping date. Amazon and B&H arbitrarily make up release dates for Leica.



Not a specific date but "early 2013" was stated. I don't think May qualifies for "early 2013"...not that it really matters to me now as it looks like it's not going to be a viable option for me due to this Live View restriction.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/17/leica-m-series-m-e/

also, from the Leica press release -

"The Leica M will be available from Leica dealers, including the Leica Store Washington DC, in early 2013 in a choice of black paint or silver chrome finish."

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/17/Leica-M-full-frame-24MP-CMOS-rangefinder-with-focus-peaking-live-view-and-1080p-movies



Feb 17, 2013 at 12:20 AM
thrice
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p.3 #4 · New M240 Delayed


frezeiss wrote:
+10

very sad..interested in this camera for street and kandscapes


Haha I'd love to see someone scrolling around in magnified live-view trying to shoot street

My M9 works fine for landscape, focusing accurately and quickly.

If anything these proposed limitations in the typ240 will deter the whingers long enough for those genuinely interested in rangefinder photography to move up the waiting lists



Feb 17, 2013 at 12:25 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #5 · New M240 Delayed


At the price of the Leica M240, there are likely a number of photographers who could have justified it ONLY IF it offered the possibility of occasional studio use where critical composition and focus check via non crippled LV existed. Throw in occasional architecture and some landscape use that require fully useable LV and it's easy to see how the potential market of the M240 would dramatically decrease with an impotent LV implementation. It would seem short sighted and somewhat arrogant if Leica intends to "deter whingers" with an artificial restriction (though I doubt such an artificial restriction is the cause).


Feb 17, 2013 at 12:55 AM
thrice
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p.3 #6 · New M240 Delayed


How did people shoot landscape and architecture before live view?
I admit, if you're using extensive tilts then magnified movable live-view is important but Leica don't make a tilt lens usable on the M so it's not their responsibility to support it. On 24x36mm sensors DOF is sufficient that you don't need to tilt for landscape. I imagine most people here understand hyperfocus and how to use a distance scale so I'm struggling to grasp the real-world limitations here...

As much as it might pain some to realise, Leica will have no problems selling as many of these as they can manufacture, probably for a good 2 years.

Edited on Feb 17, 2013 at 01:29 AM · View previous versions



Feb 17, 2013 at 01:28 AM
naturephoto1
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p.3 #7 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
Haha I'd love to see someone scrolling around in magnified live-view trying to shoot street

My M9 works fine for landscape, focusing accurately and quickly.

If anything these proposed limitations in the typ240 will deter the whingers long enough for those genuinely interested in rangefinder photography to move up the waiting lists


Many of us are not on the list at this point and are waiting for the reports and reviews both from the usual reviewers and magazines as well as buyers. This was supposed to be our answer according to Leica for those of us that are/were long time Leica R owners that have been orphaned for the digital usage of our lenses. So, yes, for those of us in this boat, we are watching and listening carefully with much interest and at this point much disappointment for the capabilities and limitations of the camera to meet our needs that our R and Leicaflex cameras served us so well and so long for our film applications.

Rich


Edited on Feb 17, 2013 at 01:38 AM · View previous versions



Feb 17, 2013 at 01:29 AM
thrice
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p.3 #8 · New M240 Delayed


I would say it is a Leica solution, but not the answer. You'll be waiting a fair bit longer for the second coming


Feb 17, 2013 at 01:31 AM
naturephoto1
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p.3 #9 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
I would say it is a Leica solution, but not the answer. You'll be waiting a fair bit longer for the second coming


A solution perhaps, but it should provide us with most of the capabilities of our R and Leicaflex cameras with new features offered by new technology.

Rich



Feb 17, 2013 at 01:33 AM
snowboarder
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p.3 #10 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
How did people shoot landscape and architecture before live view?


I'm so sick of this cr@p, geeze...
The truth is this camera is shaping up to be a big fat blah...
6 years old processor which is not able to handle the proper Live View mode.
Unknown CMOS sensor designed in hmmm, hmmm Europe...
Cr@ppy EVF with 30fps refresh mode, why, o yes, the processor doesn't have
enough power. What's next?
FYI I own 10 or so Leica lenses and they are the best glass I've ever used.
It bothers me this company is not able to produce a decent digital solution
to use those lenses.




Feb 17, 2013 at 02:50 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Gary Clennan
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p.3 #11 · New M240 Delayed


snowboarder wrote:
I'm so sick of this cr@p, geeze...
The truth is this camera is shaping up to be a big fat blah...
6 years old processor which is not able to handle the proper Live View mode.
Unknown CMOS sensor designed in hmmm, hmmm Europe...
Cr@ppy EVF with 30fps refresh mode, why, o yes, the processor doesn't have
enough power. What's next?
FYI I own 10 or so Leica lenses and they are the best glass I've ever used.
It bothers me this company is not able to produce a decent digital solution
to use those lenses.










Feb 17, 2013 at 03:16 AM
thrice
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p.3 #12 · New M240 Delayed


Sweet, now that you have been betrayed, let me know if you want to offload some lenses cheap

P.S. Cmosis are very well known in the oem sensor industry.



Feb 17, 2013 at 03:17 AM
sebboh
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p.3 #13 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
How did people shoot landscape and architecture before live view?
I admit, if you're using extensive tilts then magnified movable live-view is important but Leica don't make a tilt lens usable on the M so it's not their responsibility to support it. On 24x36mm sensors DOF is sufficient that you don't need to tilt for landscape. I imagine most people here understand hyperfocus and how to use a distance scale so I'm struggling to grasp the real-world limitations here...

As much as it might pain some to realise, Leica will have no problems selling as many of these as they can manufacture,
...Show more

agreed, leica should have no trouble selling all the cameras they can make for at least a couple years. that's not really a very good justification for crippled liveview though. if they hadn't included liveview at all the camera would still be guaranteed to be sold out for the first two years.

i understand leica leaving liveview out of their cameras to just target people who love shooting rangefinders, but once they decided to put it in there's no reason not to do a decent job of implementing it. if it really only does center magnify liveview that makes me think that they didn't ever talk to any photographers who actually use liveview in their work when they were designing the camera. i can't imagine anyone that regularly uses liveview in their work not thinking such a design was ridiculously stupid. if leica doesn't care about such customers why the f*** did they waste money giving the camera liveview?



Feb 17, 2013 at 03:36 AM
thrice
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p.3 #14 · New M240 Delayed


There's no reason they CANNOT let you define the magnified area in a firmware update. Especially the loyal customers who speak so highly of them.


Feb 17, 2013 at 03:55 AM
sebboh
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p.3 #15 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
There's no reason they CANNOT let you define the magnified area in a firmware update. Especially the loyal customers who speak so highly of them.


are you speaking as a leica representative when you say that? or are you just guessing?


Edited on Feb 17, 2013 at 03:57 AM · View previous versions



Feb 17, 2013 at 03:56 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.3 #16 · New M240 Delayed


So how many M 240 bodies were you planning to buy before you realized of this huge blunder by Leica? In fact, I knew about this since the first day it was announced and it never bothered me. Now I'm starting to think that if the earth stopped spinning might have a lower effect on non Leica shooters who have been waiting for almost a century for the opportunity of buying a Leica M body and now Leica screwed up their dream.


Feb 17, 2013 at 03:56 AM
sebboh
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p.3 #17 · New M240 Delayed


edwardkaraa wrote:
So how many M 240 bodies were you planning to buy before you realized of this huge blunder by Leica? In fact, I knew about this since the first day it was announced and it never bothered me. Now I'm starting to think that if the earth stopped spinning might have a lower effect on non Leica shooters who have been waiting for almost a century for the opportunity of buying a Leica M body and now Leica screwed up their dream.


zero, i knew i didn't want to spend $7k on it when i saw it was still a rangefinder. how does my lack of interest in the product negate any of my previous statements? did you actually decide you are going to get one? i seem to remember you were rather indecisive on whether it was the camera foryou around release time.



Feb 17, 2013 at 04:08 AM
philber
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p.3 #18 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
How did people shoot landscape and architecture before live view?

As much as it might pain some to realise, Leica will have no problems selling as many of these as they can manufacture, probably for a good 2 years.


That argument means we should all be willing to make do with cameras as primitive as Ansel Adams', because he did produce great landscape pictures, didn't he?

As to demand that will keep Ms sold out for the next two years, there are better ways to manage that than by crippling the product's features to discourage prospective customers other than brand loyalists. Leica could increase production capacity, and, with it, market share and profits. Or Leica could see very long waiting lists for its flagship, increasing its desirability and the value of second-hand bodies.
At least I can comprehend when companies cripple their new mid-range products to protect their flagship's niche. It is a frequent, if flawed, strategy. But here, what are Leica hoping to achieve by discouraging people who would have wanted to make full use of LiveView? Ideological purity?



Feb 17, 2013 at 05:25 AM
JohnJ
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p.3 #19 · New M240 Delayed


thrice wrote:
How did people shoot landscape and architecture before live view?
...


Plate cameras, 4x5, 5x7 etc. and you could focus anywhere you want to on the GG. They certainly didn't do it with a range finder (of course there will be a few exceptions, there always are).

thrice wrote:
...On 24x36mm sensors DOF is sufficient that you don't need to tilt for landscape. I imagine most people here understand hyperfocus and how to use a distance scale so I'm struggling to grasp the real-world limitations here...


What a huge steaming pile of bullshit that is. DOF is simply an 'acceptable lack of sharpness'. Why don't we just go back to zone focusing too. That way we won't need a range finder either.

If Leica is offereing an R adapter then presumably one should be able to focus R lenses (such as the macro and shift lenses) as intended, and is possible with any SLR/DSLR focusing screen. With macro or any product style shots you could end up needing to focus virtually anywhere on the screen. Same pretty much applies to any fast (narrow DOF) lens such as the long teles. Yes I do focus in the centre too but when using LV I at least have the ability to focus accurately anywhere I like, but more importantly, I have the choice.

If a cameras sole purpose is street shooting then why have LV at all? You simply can't focus with LV for any fast moving subjects. It's not intended for that as everyone with half a brain knows. So if you do implement LV then why would anyone limit it to the same functionality as a rangefinder, which is already a crippling concept in itself? That's why I doubt it will be so. The Germans are not that stupid. Are they?



Feb 17, 2013 at 05:37 AM
snowboarder
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p.3 #20 · New M240 Delayed


philber wrote:
That argument means we should all be willing to make do with cameras as primitive as Ansel Adams', because he did produce great landscape pictures, didn't he?

As to demand that will keep Ms sold out for the next two years, there are better ways to manage that than by crippling the product's features to discourage prospective customers other than brand loyalists. Leica could increase production capacity, and, with it, market share and profits. Or Leica could see very long waiting lists for its flagship, increasing its desirability and the value of second-hand bodies.
At least I can comprehend when companies
...Show more


I agree with every word Philippe.
















Feb 17, 2013 at 05:51 AM
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